Elderly awful father - do I cut contact?

[33goingunder]

Maybe more suited for the elderly parents thread but equally suitable here.

My F is mid 80s and in declining health. He used to be a dynamic, sociable and successful man who took early retirement and enjoyed traveling the world with friends. His relationships - particularly family - meant a lot to him. We used to be very close despite him being a much older dad and he took a real interest in my life.

The past 3 years have not been kind to him health wise; he’s had multiple hospital stays for various ailments only to be discharged on various pills. Rinse repeat. My mum, who he’s been married to for 30+ years, has attempted to get him respite care after each stint but he refuses help and was awful to staff in the last place. Social services won’t intervene. His expectation is that my mum will simply take care of him forever. They have no communication - save for him being deeply unpleasant - any more and she is resigned to this state of affairs.

The issue is, the person my father is now is someone I can’t stand. He’s self centred, slovenly, takes no agency for his health and sits listening to the tv on full volume all day. If I’m in their house my presence is used to get him something/do his bidding. It’s not personal to me. He hasn’t asked any questions about anyone for the best part of three years and doesn’t communicate. There is zero interest in anything and we have been to the memory clinic, screened for depression etc.

There’s no diagnosis - despite our best efforts to obtain one - so I can’t blame his rapid change in personality on dementia etc despite my suspicions. if there was a diagnosis I could understand/try to be kind, but instead I’m faced with this awful man who is routinely rude to my mother/me but also declining and spends his life in front of the tv or asleep. It really is no life.

i’m supportive of mum and I have offered to be a safe haven should she need one.

so my question is, how do I navigate his twilight years in a way that doesn’t bury me too? I did a lot of grieving last year when his personality changed and I feel guilty for being so disgusted with his bad temper during those visits I make. He’s simply not the same man and his entitlement that others will drop everything to do his bidding makes me angry.

I also spent a lot of my 20s being frantically worried about his health and well-being and frequently worried that he would die during very worrying periods of his ill health. so I feel like my capacity to care has dried up with all the worry and fear. That sounds horrendous written down but that’s how I feel 😓

has anyone dealt with an elderly parent like this and can share any wisdom?

Bump

Gosh that sounds very hard. My FIL became very needy and self centred later in life and was periodically very awful to MIL. After she died he sunk into a depression ( which he would have denied) and developed multiple new health issues and was neglecting himself whilst refusing all outside help.

After a few months of this he fell at home and ended up in hospital and went into a care home. When he was getting the amount of attention he needed and all his needs were met he really improved and his temper outbursts very much decreased though he was still very self centred.

I guess you just need to keep supporting your DM and take your lead from her. Is he able to manage alone if he had to? Maybe take her out for a few hours a week and offer him the option of someone (paid) to stay with him or he stays alone? Being bad tempered doesn’t mean you always get your own way.

Do they have funds to pay for additional help and would he object to, say a cleaner? Sometimes you can get help in via other routes as it were.

Keep reaching out here, many people have been through similar.

So if he was different up to 3 up years ago, it's fairly safe to assume there is some cognitive decline going on there, and also unfortunately some people can get very demanding as they get older.

If you cut contact its your DM you are effectively letting down. Unfortunately there is limited state care for those who are merely old, and if offering a safe haven means somewhere to stay if she leaves him, I sincerely doubt she's going to do that.

I'd continue to visit to support your DM and try to disengage as much as you can from your DF, it more than likely is dementia so just try to remember the DF you used to know.

It's hard, but getting really old is hard as well.

I can relate. My Dad isn't at that stage yet, but I worry a lot, about the impact it will have on my life as it goes that way. I was close to him but our relationship has deteriorated, for different reasons to yours. I feel loyalty to my mother like you. I will try to support her as much as possible. Its very sad how you're grieving for him whilst he's still there, and let's be honest an emotional and practical burden. I realise that is a controversial way to speak about it.
Do you have siblings or other family members involved at all?

My mum went into a depressed/disinterested stage at the end of her life (last 3 years), having been a complete livewire who loved everyone and everything. She was also very cantankerous with it and stopped caring about hygiene or the house (2 things about which she’d been very particular).

She was never diagnosed with any form of dementia, but I think there was. The apathy aspect made me wonder if she had some form of Lewy Bodies.

She was very hard to be around during this time but we’d never have abandoned her. Plus, that would’ve been devastating for our dad. They needed our support at that time more than ever.

Don’t cut contact with your dad. He’s probably in some sort of hell himself and can’t help his behaviour.

It sounds a very stressful time for him and he’s clearly not himself as a result. What with him not being his normal self id continue contact with dad to support your mum, ensuring your mum has enough respite. Take her away for a weekend here and there, afternoon cream teas, shopping together.

Rather then withdraw from your dad, I’d spoil your mum and whisk her away lots

get back on to social services and have a care assessment.

better to do it sooner than later.

If your dad has changed so much, there is bound to be a reason. Just because it hasn’t been diagnosed, doesn’t mean there isn’t one. It’s like you are ‘blaming’ him for the change, but it’s not his fault.
I remember my uncle started being really unreasonable at the very start of dementia.

My grandfather was the same, a wonderful man that sadly became so different due to old age cognitive decline. Try to remember the 'real him' and be there to support your mother. I know it's hard , it was awful watching my mum suffer when she was taking care of him towards the end.

It's horrible to have this happen, he must be in a dire place even though there is not yet a diagnosis.

Surely he needs your love and care, particularly now?

In my line of work I see situations like this very very commonly.
As bad as it sounds, I truely believe a lot of people just live far too long to become horrible versions of themselves and nothing but burdens on everyone around them.
I would spend more time with my mum away from him. Doesn't sound like he deserves it anyway. I also don't think I would bother persistently chasing services and diagnoses. It's often a complete waste of time/energy and changes nothing.
I would prioritise my own wellbeing and step away from him but not my mum.

At 80+ dementia is likely, and unfortunately it can completely change a person's personality from a decent caring person to a self centred "grumpy toddler" who cannot focus on anything over than themselves, and then worse when they don't bother even doing the basics for themselves. There are some that might say (and I read this recently on a doctors wall, that it is a privilege looking after the people that once looked after you) In reality, it is absolutely awful for you, and those around them (like your mum) but they can't help it, it helps if you have siblings that take their turn but it is still hard. It would be worth having a look or posting on the elderly parent board for this. My mum has been diagnosed with alzheimers with dementia aged 82, it is just about cope-able with because my dad (same age) hasn't got it, but he is bitter about the amount of care he has to do. I do most things for them now, all of life admin, cook their tea, clean, take them to appointments. My mum rings me maybe 20 times a day about the same thing. If I am in the room with her, she tells me the same thing 100 plus times. Unlike your Dad, she is not too grumpy, but she cries all the time. It's bloody hard, and I am not sure I have any advice that makes it a lot easier, other than get 1) Lasting Power of Attorney, 2) try and get your Dad diagnosed in that order. Also attendance allowance helps and it sounds like you would get it. We are just about hanging on, but if anything should happen to my Dad, then I know that we are talking care homes. I wish you the best, it is a horrible situation to be in xx

My Dad (85) is a misery much of the time nowadays-sometimes he’s better, but v. up and down mood-wise. He’s widowed and has multiple health problems (he takes about 15 pills a day). He blames everyone else for his problems and can be quite nasty, but I also feel very sorry for him as he’s clearly unhappy and it’s such a shame. He also watches a lot of TV, I suspect it’s because everything is such an effort physically and mentally now.

As PP’s have said, focus on helping your Mum and contact Adult Social Care for an assessment, they’ve been v. helpful with my Dad.

If he expects your Mum to do everything, would a cleaner/someone to do light housekeeping be helpful? I’ve arranged this for my Dad.

a diagnosis wouldn't change the situation, so even if it's informal, consider that there have been some brain issues affecting his personality (it could be medication side effect).
don't subject yourself to more than you can handle but don't wait for a doctor to confirm what you know.
his illness or his meds have had a negative affect on his mind.
it's not an easy process but in some cases what appears to be against the person's wishes they can be placed in care homes due to his abusive behavior to his caregivers.

@PrincessofWellies you have spectacularly missed the point. @AnnaNims I’m sorry for what you experienced, but I take issue with you implying that I’m ‘abandoning’ him. I’m in regular contact but his behaviour is destructive.

@sjpkgp1 thank you for this - it perfectly sums up my feelings on the matter. I’m so sorry to read about what you’re experiencing with your mum. We also have LPOA in place. We have found social services to be totally ineffective, though as my father is deemed to be of sound mind and is pretty mobile. He often presents as being entirely capable but deeply unpleasant and masks around healthcare professionals. It’s deeply frustrating.

@Needsomeadvice33 yes, I don’t feel like a diagnosis would be helpful and my view has become more like yours lately: he’s an insufferable old person whose needs take precedence over everyone else’s (in his mind)!

Today is a good example. He finally takes a shower after several days but screamed for my mum to come from the kitchen to give him a towel. The shower room is next to the airing cupboard; it would have taken him two minutes to get one himself. This is the type of pure entitlement that I feel absolute fury about. He can do things but he uses my mum as an appliance.

Sorry Op but I didn't, you did.

DM has dementia and has been in a care home for a couple of years, mainly for her own safety, and the fact that my DF is not well enough to look after her.

My DB and myself both work full time, so as she needs 24 hour care (she is most active at night) so sadly there is no other alternative to a care home.

We visit often, do everything we can for her, but 33goingunder your quote of: "entitlement that others will drop everything to do his bidding makes me angry". Is unfortunately exactly how I feel.

I know it's hard for her, but she has no idea of the effort involved behind the scenes for both her and DF, and is supremely ungrateful constantly.

I have found the best way I cope is to simply do what I can and not get drawn into the guilt.

It is extremely hard OP, but you have to look after yourself (and your DM)

@flotsomandjetsome i am nodding in sympathy. So sorry it’s hard for you too

Does he know how to select tv programmes - does he have multiple channels.
My DM loved Morse in her later years and watched them over and over. DB liked war stuff but latterly couldn't put on a dvd.
Is there an opportunity to watch tv he might enjoy.

My Step father is like this he's younger than your dad but after a spell of illness he just sits in his dressing gown moaning and barking out orders I'm sorry your dad has come to this.

@Mrsjayy it’s like there’s some sort of script they al follow!

It could be dementia related as this can impact mood. It could also be depression.

It seems to be, I'm past caring and getting worked up about him.

My dad was like this; it came to a head when he pointed his finger at me and said 'I order you to do xxx now!'. I turned on my heel and went downstairs, saw my mum was sorted and went home. He rang me a day or two later and said I seemed 'upset'. I told him I wasn't upset, just really bloody annoyed that he was ordering me about and generally being a cantankerous old git when we were all trying to do our best. It didn't turn him into an angel overnight, but he was a little more considerate after that.

I wish you well OP; it's hard.