Son not ready to night time toilet train!!

[Thefirstime]

He is 4.5 years and becoming so angry about not starting toilet training, I started before (year ago) but he was far too young and was wet every night..

now it’s becoming a major issue every night as he wants to wear his regular daytime underwear..

he’s a very deep sleeper and out of 7 nights wakes up wet 4-5..

shall I just start and go cold turkey??

I am trying to limit his drinks before bed too as he likes a full drink..

any advice?!

he seems ready to try!!

No point whatsoever until he starts to produce the urine suppression hormone. Put him in pull ups at night.

I read that boys are not developmentally ready until they are 7 (not always obviously) so it’s probably best not to push it or upset him if he’s not there.

@Thefirstime He needs to be producing the hormone vasopressin which slows down urine production at night and then the bladder isn't full and doesn't need emptying. Until he produces that he will not be dry at night. That is why there are supermarket shelves stocked full of night time pull ups in older ages.

If you want some really good advice then the ERIC website is the best place "Around 15% of all 7 year olds regularly wet the bed" just for some cold hard facts. There is still a stigma attached to talking about this. There are some things that may help but best to read the ERIC website and see what you feel might be the next steps for you.

https://eric.org.uk/childrens-bladders/bedwetting/

I would buy a couple of washable mattress protectors and give it a go. It's good drying weather so a better time to give it a try than in the winter as can get the sheets dried. Maybe switch to a washable blanket instead of a duvet just in case? If it doesn't work after a couple of weeks, can go back to pull ups

I am trying to limit his drinks before bed too as he likes a full drink..

The flip side of that is, make sure he drinks plenty earlier in the day.

I don’t understand why he is throwing huge tantrums about it!!? His older cousin wears pants and is age 6 and I think he teased him a bit about still being in nappies at night.. not appropriate at all.. I didn’t hear him, but my son has got it from somewhere..

how do I avoid a battle every night??!

he is very strong willed..

we have decided to try tonight pants.. but I know it’s too soon! Waste of time and energy

What nappies/pull ups are you putting him in at night atm?

Can you get some of the ones with proper characters (like spiderman) on and sell it to him that way? I think it's dry nites? (probably ruinously expensive, but maybe worth it to get him to wear them?)

@Thefirstime You can buy reusable pull ups, like reusable nappies. They are much more like actual pants. Have a look on Amazon, there are loads.

You can also buy products from incontinence websites, the one we used has gone bust but you can get fully enclosed duvet protectors, pillow protectors and mattress protectors so that you aren't having to wash those all the time it might just be the bottom sheet and wipe down everything else. But you can also get large washable pads that cover a section of the bed too. You need to protect the bed and bedding as much as possible.

I think you need to talk to him and tell him that lots of other children also wet the bed and it has nothing to do with how old they are. Ds1 wasn't dry every night until he was 10, Ds2 was dry at night at 3.

Reusable training pants. They look like pants but at least you’re only washing them and not the sheets every night.

Can you actually “toilet train” for night dryness? You’re asleep, you either are dry or you aren’t, and that depends on vasopressin production as somebody upthread mentioned. Not really something you can train for.

@goingtogetthroughthis they won’t hold a full wee from a 7 year old. We had them for my kids when we toilet trained and they were really only useful for that stage when they can stop themselves after a dribble has started. A full wee still gets everything else wet too.

I don’t think night dryness can be taught as it’s down to whether their body is producing the hormone, but drinking higher volumes earlier in the day and limiting water after 6pm, and no blackcurrant based drinks can help.

He'll be ready in time. DS1 was dry in the day at 4 & at night at 11.

DS2 was dry both day & night from 2 years & a matter of days.

DD was dry in the day from 2, at night from around 6 and would only poo in a nappy (not the toilet) until around 6.

You can't rush it. And there's absolutely no need to.

FGS relax!!
the poor kid.
Night time pull-ups.
It will all come to pass.

And btw, reducing fluids is a complete fallacy- it only makes the urine more concentrated, so will make him go even more !!

Perhaps you need to educate yourself on children and this subject.

You can

?

You can't train for night dryness.
Have a look at the ERIC website. Until they produce the hormone there is nothing you can do.

That's not true. It depends entirely on the child. We have four kids. The ages they were dry at night was different
DS1 was 2 almost to the day
DS2 was 2.5
DS3 was 20 months
DD was 11 years old. No SN just couldn't get it.

Time for a spot of rebranding. We called pull ups "special night pants" and he was happy to wear them.

But surely unless you try your body would just keep peeing on the night regardless of you have the hormone level or not?

My friend told me the best advice she got was when you complete day potty training make sure you do night training within a week. Her son was 2.5 and dry at night.
My mum is also telling me that both me and my brother were dry at night and that I should be getting my son, who is 4, night trained.
I'm so conflicted because I've read on mumsnet a lot about the hormone need to be high enough to stop the night seeing but surely there is an element of being trained too?

Do you think you can be 'trained' to do something when you are asleep??

I had a child who was fully potty trained at 18 months... in the daytime.

They were dry at night at 13 years old. We were seeing a paediatric specialist for 4 years. No other issues whatsoever.
But the hormone wasn't there, and they slept very soundly.

We tried alarms and waking and reward charts and not drinking, and more drinking in the daytime. And then drugs. And there was still no guarantee.

And for anyone who thinks that somehow the parents made the problem through not 'training' right. The next child also potty trained by 2 in the daytime, and promptly ditched nappies at night too. Has wet the bed maybe once or twice since.

While there are methods to try and train the body I don't think there is anything with 100% success rate, kids just grow out of it eventually. The training won't hurt, but don't be upset if it doesn't work.

For now you can talk to him and explain to him in kids terms that there is nothing embarrassing about having to wear "nappy" for the night and that even some adults do it (you can even show him the adult nappies at a store).

But make it a daytime conversation, not a fight just before the bedtime when he is already tired and cranky

Also, there are these water-resistant mats you can place on bed if he really want to try to self train. it may reduce mess a little and i'd expect he'd be more open to wear appropriate underwear after having few accidents

I'm more thinking you're body may be more aware of being wet so learns not to be?

What I was told is I should make Ds have a wee before bed then when I go to bed take him along to the toilet for another wee an she will be just pee on toilet half asleep.

I mean, I don't know..I haven't done anything yet as my son always has hugely heavy wet nappies in the morning! He made noises once a few months ago about not wearing nappy pants so we tried it, he wet the bed, was sad and accepted a nappy the following night.
So I personally don't think he is ready but I think I'm just wanting to get my argument ready to tell my mum why we haven't done it yet 😜🤣

Yes I understand the hormonal aspect but is he toilet trained at all?
Surely he is day trained?
Training for nights involves waking them and taking them to the toilet.

I understand the frustration OP. My elder son wasn't dry at night until he was aged 6 or 7 and he used to get very upset about it, especially as his little brother was dry well before him. Even with pull ups on he would quite often wake up soaked. He couldn't go on sleepovers with friends or anything because of it and didn't even want friends to stay with us because he was embarrassed. I was on the verge of taking him to the doctor to see about desmopressin tablets as there was a school overnight trip coming up when one morning he woke up with a dry pull up and that was that. It was literally like someone had flipped a switch. I kept him in pull ups for about a week after the first dry night as I couldn't quite believe it but it really was that simple.
Hopefully something similar will happen to your DS too. I tried to explain it to my DS saying that his brain needed to make a chemical that stopped him making so much wee at night and that some people's brains do it younger than others just like some people walk or talk a bit sooner when they are babies but everyone catches up in the end. I'm not sure that he fully understood but I think it helped a bit.

Training for nights involves waking them and taking them to the toilet.
Actually experts in the field specifically advise against this. And it's not new advice either - I was told this 15 years ago when trying to help my son.