My mother is a narcissist. How to deal with this text?

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So, pretty sure that my DM has narcissistic tendencies, to say the least.

It's always about her, and how things affect her. Never asks about my life, hasn't been interested in knowing about my job, my hobbies, my friends, my holidays, just anything about my life, for years now. But expects us to be interested in her, and sends weird messages, like for example, if we come back from holiday and don't visit her asap, she will send a message saying "don't the children want to see us"? etc, you get the idea.

Recently it's gotten worse and worse and I'm LC with her even though she lives nearby. My father is ill in hospital and I have been visiting him almost every day and the kids too when they have the chance. Due to her behaviour towards us as a family, I haven't visited her for a while and the kids haven't either (14 and 12), been busy with visiting my father too. She often sends messages that are just emotional blackmail.

Anyway, she sent a message to my 14yr old DS, saying "I'm very lonely. What's point of having grandkids just doors away". My DS was a bit upset as he thought she might mean what is the point of having grandkids?! I told my mother not to send messages like that, as it's not right and she hasn't bothered asking any of us for weeks how we are etc and now she wants people to visit her. I told her that DS found the message upsetting, and her response is "So, what steps has DS taken to sort out the loneliness". What on earth am I meant to say to that?!

I want to say, it's not DS's job to "sort out" her loneliness and if she had asked nicely if he'd like to visit, of course he would have come over. But she wont' understand, and I just can't take it anymore.

We tend to ignore or say 'oh dear, that's a shame'.

Don't engage or justify.

And use her communication style back at her.

So mine tends to open with a long list of how tired she is, how rushed off her feet etc. instead of my immediately dropping everything and sorting out all her problems as I have tried in the past, I now list all my problems.

It leaves her flapping in the wind.

"I know mum, it's very hard for us all. We're spending as much time with dad as we can so you don't need to worry about him, and trying our best to prepare and plan for the future."

OMG we have the same mother. This was my mother through and through.
Block her on your dc phones, they shouldn’t have to deal with her nonsense.
Remain as LC as possible.
I’m sorry about your Dad. Hopefully you can liaise with his carers without going via your mother.

My DP ended up in a right tangle with his very similar (possibly worse) mother, OP, and ended up in therapy.

She made a very successful attempt to turn his eldest DC against him, pretending she had terminal cancer about 8 years ago. The younger ones live with us 100% of the time so we were able to keep her away from them, and I would strongly advise you to do the same while you still can.

My experience is that it is best to ignore this kind of behaviour. If she sends texts like this, do not responsd. Block on DCs phones. With narcissists you need firm boundaries, and one for me is not engaging with this kind of behaviour.

That makes no sense.

How many people seek a medical opinion that leads to a diagnosis of NPD?

Clearly that happens rarely.

However, people can still be described as narcissists in the opinion of others, in the sense of their view that someone displays narcissistic tendencies. That's perfectly acceptable & regularly done

It's clear in this case that's what OP is referring to and asking for advice in this regard.

I know it is easier said than done particularly if you get along with your father but can you just go no contact?

I ask because my maternal grandmother was a nasty vicious bitch and my mother spent her entire life (and by extension ours) trying to appease her. It blighted my mother's life and had an exceptionally negative impact on my life. I truly could not understand why she never just dropped her mother like a rock and lived a fulfilling life away from her.

Just to add, narcissists cannot be called out and they will not empathise. Responding is what they feed off, like a red rag to a bull. You create boundaries for yourself and accept they will not change.

God op have this too a bloody nightmare. If Im lc or no reply she rings house phone. Rude and entitled. Like a bull when holidays mentioned no dont bring her away. I could go on. Rude to most people. I think keep your boundaries tight I do.

If your father wasn’t ill this would be easier.

In that case I would write as if I’ve entirely missed the point. “Oh I’ve taught him various ways to manage his emotions. If he’s lonely he knows to seek interaction in positive ways with people he enjoys being around. He might ask to invite a friend over, for instance.”

I have a father who can be like this. I don’t reward him, but I have noticed that if I say “it sounds like you are feeling…” he will respond in a different, more positive way. I can only do this when the target is a friend of his rather than me or a loved one.

I would want to ask your Mom whose emotions she was responsible for managing when she was 14. The answer is either “no one expected that of me” which leads to the obvious, “then why do you think your grandson is responsible for yours?” Or else she was treated this way also. Neither makes it acceptable for her to behave this way, of course.

The OP hasn’t diagnosed her mother with anything. She hasn’t said her mother has Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

Anyone can describe anyone as being a narcissist, it’s a word that has been in common parlance for years and years. It means someone who displays narcissistic traits.

Correct. Just like describing someone as anxious doesn't mean you've diagnosed them with an anxiety disorder.

@BodegaSushi

That's a good analogy, agree.

Sounds like mine it’s all about her and her getting what you want pint out her behaviour or you have feelings and it’s ‘how dare you’ with more rude comments , she never asks about you does she ask you mr children about them or just use them as another set of ears to listen to all
about her

people can still be described as narcissists in the opinion of others, in the sense of their view that someone displays narcissistic tendencies. That's perfectly acceptable & regularly done

Exactly

I agree no reply is the best reply. Look up medium chill/grey rock. It takes a little practice but it’s the best approach in my experience.

I’d be inclined to get your Ds to screenshot every coffee morning, memory cafe, elderly community gathering, local events, courses and evening activities and send them to her.

then he has answered the question about what is he doing, he’s done plenty, what is she doing?

I got this from a meme on Instagram and it is how I live my life by now because my family of origin has significant dysfunction including incest for the poster who needs narcissists to be diagnosed. Narcissists particularly those with NPD do not get diagnosed as a rule as their behaviour impacts others far more than themselves.

Don’t

1. Tell them they are a narcissist
2. Emotionally react
3. Confront them
4. Be nice
5. Project yourself into them

Instead of telling them they are a narcissist believe that they are and take steps to remove that toxic person from your life. Stop expecting that you will trigger then to change.

Instead of confronting them. Take the evidence they you have to inform your own decisions. Confronting them will most likely only end in more devaluing and gaslighting.

Instead of reacting emotionally grey rock them to cut off emotional supply.

Instead of being nice, be direct, take the emotion out of things and be matter of fact. Be clear about your boundaries as expectations. Be firm.

Do not project yourself onto them. They don’t think like you, they don’t act like you, they don’t behave like you so don’t expect them too.

I would say very clearly that as ds is a child he is not responsible for taking any steps. But you as an adult are responsible for your own wellbeing and managing your own loneliness. Any further upsetting messages of that nature to any of my children will result in you only having contact with them through me so I can ensure its appropriate. End conversation, move on. If she doesn't respect the boundary then I'd block her on ds phone and contact with your kids goes through you exactly as stated. I find you need to be super clear with very solid boundaries when someone is being emotionally manipulative like that. In a separate conversation I'd suggest she joins some social clubs and takes up a hobby etc. Then next time she complains you ask her what she's done as she's responsible for herself.

I agree with this suggestion except I'd add at the end about doing what a normal grandparent would do to alleviate their perceived loneliness would be for the grandparent to take up a hobby and point them in the direction of the parish hall to find out if there is something of interest there.

If you don't want to cut all contact then you may need to accept that she is very lonely and if you manage that a bit rather than always feeling like you are trying to get away she may be a bit easier.

Maybe trying changing the dynamic by calling her - keep it brief and chatty, ask her how she is, expect nothing, and then say goodbye and get on with your day.

If you do that she might not go into stalk mode and try guilt tripping your kids. If you are calling her regularly she has nothing to complain about (and it may genuinely be terrible loneliness, a call could settle her a bit.)

It's almost impossible to get a diagnosis as narcissists won't even fathom that there might be a problem. There are plenty of online resources though.
In my case though, I was fortunate that a friend working in the field pointed my mother's narcissism out to me

Dealing with people like this is similar to parenting a toddler. You need to ignore the bad behaviour and reward the good. So when she's having a tantrum, guilt tripping you, being nasty etc you just completely ignore her. Don't answer the texts, hang up the phone, block her on DC's phone. When she is behaving in a sensible and courteous way, "reward" her by responding in kind. As soon as she reverts to the poor behaviour, you start to ignore her again.

💐
She's manipulating the next generation down, because she's getting no cuttings from you.
Block her on your DC's phone to protect them from her behaviour.
You as an adult no doubt find her difficult enough to deal with, but your DC aren't emotionally mature enough to deal with her behaviour.
You need to guide them on this.

Yeh its like toddlers. I find grey rock very good. Vague and yes no. Dont tell them much. Wasnt sure what she was telling siblings! So dont say too much. I find mine devious though

“You are lonely because you are an arsehole”.

Okay, maybe don’t send that. I would. But then again, I am the last person to ask for family advice. I think you k ow the reason why.