Is the one leaving the relationship always a bad guy?

[PaintedEgg]

This one is more of an opinion / philosophical thread

There are several threads on here from people who were left by their partners, often after over a decade long relationships. Looking at replies it seems like the person leaving is always in the wrong unless there was some considerable amount of abuse happening

If they have an affair and leave then obviously they are the asshole But is there a scenario when it's ok to call it quits?

If the leaving partner goes cold turkey and just leaves they're not offering closure. If they say they no longer love their partner and that's why they're leaving then they're the bad guy for not trying harder. If they provide any other excuse, no matter how reasonable, it's deemed to be bullshit.

So I started to wonder - is there ever a scenario when it's ok to leave a relationship we're no longer satisfied with? Does it have to be a case where one side is very toxic to justify just leaving?

I think we need to leave behind notions like "the bad guy", as if there must be one in every separation. It implies a black-and-white villain/victim dynamic and rarely is it that simple. It is OK to be less than perfect. If you are not a victim, it doesn't automatically make you a villain. Needing to blame someone for the split is rather immature - true confidence comes from knowing that even if you're not perfect, and not a victim, you can still make decisions that are for your own self-esteem/preservation/worth.

I've seen it said on here many many times that you do not need someone's permission to leave a relationship. That you are free to end a relationship for any reason at all - if it's not what you want, it's not what you want.

Also, I think it's harder for women to re establish themselves in later life. A man in their mid 50s ending a marriage after 20 odd years can still have a relationship with women 10 years younger it's realistically harder for women if that's what they want. In all the relationship break downs I know where the parties are in their 50s in a relatively short of time the man is in a new relationship whereas women seem the emotional fallout a great deal harder.

I think this is very true. In effect, women in their late 40s and early 50s have a choice.
You either lower your standards, or perhaps date an older guy in his 60s or you choose to be lonelier.
I'm lucky to be able to choose to be alone as I'm financially stable. Emotionally the fall out of my divorce was awful but I'd now happily date a guy my age or maybe upto 7 or 8 years older. There's just nobody out there unless you want to be an eventual old age nurse with a purse.

@PaintedEgg I am strangely relieved to hear that you are, and I’m not sure why but your post made me feel little sad, but now not so as it was merely a pondering.

I agree that once certain things have been broken, that dead horses shouldn’t be flogged.

Never easy and circumstances always dictate of course.

Long may you be happily married!

It's childish to think of 'bad guys'.

There can be a relationship which two people entered into in good faith, but over the years they have grown in different directions. Why should anyone be 'the bad guy' when they express that it's no longer working for fundamental reasons?

And if someone is being abused, cheated on, mistreated, etc., how can anyone with two braincells think of them as 'the bad guy' for leaving?

I think the degree of "bad guy"ness is directly proportional to the amount of effort put into genuinely trying as a team to save the marriage before mutually deciding that it isn't going to work long-term (with the exception of being forced to leave abruptly due to abuse).

Coming home and dropping a bombshell in your partner's life, then walking out having already emotionally moved on, is awful behaviour even if there was no affair etc. Trying counselling, switching things around, maybe moving house/jobs, then concluding that you've both given it your best shot and working out the best way to co-parent if relevant, is a very different thing.

But I think people are also considered a bad guy for leaving a relationship which they don't want to be in because it doesn't make them happy...

It's true that 50 something women are less likely to meet somebody but is that definitely the short straw?! I will never lose my house again, I will never do 70% of the housework and know realistically that that's better than average. I have my own income, savings, pension and I only rarely wish I had somebody to go out with, when my friends are quiet/busy.

It is assum3d that the men are the lucky ones because they stumble in to another relationship.

They probably are the lucky ones, if they stumble into another relationship where the woman does 70% of the housework.

Leaving aside abuse and infidelity, I think what is very common when longstanding relationships end is that one partner has been trying for a long time to get the other partner to meet them half way about issues that are not working between them, or at least to look at, and discuss, those issues in a constructive way.

When you have children, work, financial and wider family commitments etc, it can take a considerable amount of time to circle back to unresolved problems enough times that you are ready to face the fact they will never be resolved, and then a chunk more time while you try to weigh up what is a dealbreaker and what you can live with. Eventually, for some (including me) you come to see that either the problems themselves, or the resentment you feel at the lack of engagement, are too big for the relationship to continue healthily.

Whether you are then seen as the 'bad guy' I think depends on how deep is the denial that led your partner not to engage with the problems at hand. If they genuinely believe that they were an attentive lover, an engaged parent and met you half way with the housework (or whatever) then your decision to pull the plug will paint you as cruel and unreasonable in their eyes. If they know full well that they've been kicking the can down the road, then probably not so much.

Family narratives around which of you habitually plays good cop or bad cop with your kids or your inlaws or with errant tradespeople etc can act as complicating factors in how you each cast yourself in the drama of your separation. I'm sure there are other examples, such as group dynamics for couples who socialise in flocks, for example. If one partner is in deep denial or has the unquestioning support of family or friends, then who grasps the narrative (or even the fact that someone does grasp the narrative) can have a big effect on how the separation plays out.

I'm not sure how much of this makes sense. It does in my head, but then I have the benefit of thinking about it in the context of my own recent separation, which contained elements of all of this. I don't feel like the bad guy, but who knows what's being said behind my back, lol.

Certainly I think it's way more complicated than the leaver = the bad guy, and a good thing too, because imo the leaver is often the brave one. (Though I may be biased of course.)

It's childish to think of 'bad guys'.

I agree.

It's none of business. No one owes anyone a relationship and you can leave for any reason.

If there's abuse or infidelity, there's obviously a 'bad guy' but, in many cases, someone just falls out of love. I'd rather someone left me because they didn't love/fancy me anymore rather than stayed because they felt they ought to.

@DepartureLounge

excellent post, I agree with much of it.

Though it’s possible that even if a spouse DOES make changes, it may not be enough - the other person may realise that all the love has drained away over the years, even if they recognise their partner has made an effort to change.

then it really does become difficult - you can see how the person who has made the changes can be left bewildered and hurt, and the leaver is painted as the ‘bad guy’ for whom nothing is ever good enough.

Even though reality is more complicated than that

👋👍

@DepartureLounge This absolutely makes sense but it also made me thing of something...

If we assume it's true that women in their 40s and 50s are less likely to start a new relationship (whether I agree with this is another matter) then to me it also suggests even less reasons to stay in that unhappy relationship...because it still boils down to lowering the standards and accepting something unfulfilling based on assumption there won't be anything better to find

if I was faced with this choice I think I'd rather just be single. The idea of being in relationship where someone just "sticks it out" with me seems to me to be too upsetting.

@PaintedEgg I agree, more peace for yourself

If I look at the women I know who have left marriages/LTRs in middle age (and there are a fair few) the vast majority are in new relationships, but there's a much broader spectrum to the nature of the relationship iyswim - some were/are looking for The One all over again, some are looking to be more independent but have a bf for the social/sexual dimension they add to life, etc. But in general, they don't seem to have difficulty getting into a new relationship if that's what they want. I can't comment on the newly single middle-aged men I know because there literally are none - they just don't seem to leave unless it's for someone else, or after being left they find a new woman asap. So I tend to think men "stick it out" more than women actually, and I agree it's a shoddy thing to consider might be happening to you.

For myself, I believed that if I were to leave my problematic relationship, I first needed to make my peace with the fact that I might not find a new one, partly because I guess I believed that received wisdom, and then also because I couldn't believe I personally was likely to meet someone simpatico. So I went through a stage almost of torturing myself with all the things I wouldn't have in my life, e.g. "we won't go travelling together when we're retired after all" or "maybe I'll never have sex again", until gradually I woke up to the fact that we never had sex anyway, and that he would be a tedious travel companion because he insists on being in charge of the map even though he has no sense of direction, plus I would have to do all of the driving. Once you start having conversations like that with yourself, it becomes clear that your relationship is a happy one only to the extent that you go along with the belief that it is - and I think that's true for many of us tbh - that we're 'happily married' because we just haven't got around to asking ourselves if we actually are. I think that may be why you get people urging couples to stay together - because examining your relationship properly can be contagious and a lot of other couples really don't want to go there. (Or one half of a couple doesn't want their partner seeing your decisions as a potential road map.)

Anyway, now that I've left, I realise that actually I have zero desire to start a new relationship for quite some time, if ever, but I've been struck by the number of friends who have specifically asked if I'm planning to start dating again soon, so I do think the concept of leaving a marriage/LTR with the active goal of being single and staying single is taboo in some ways or in some circles at least. Or perhaps they're just worried I'm after their husbands! (Omg, nothing could be further from the truth, lol!)

Probably enough about me now.

Great posts @DepartureLounge

I was the one who ended it and yes I hated the idea of being seen as a “bad guy”, despite ex H being abusive and refusing to engage with pleas to go to therapy, go on medication, stop drinking etc.

It took me a long time to realise it was my decision, no one else’s, that only I understood what had occurred in our marriage and my reasons so leaving and that a sunk cost of a 21 year relationship was not a good reason to resign myself at 41 to an unhappy and increasingly toxic relationship for the rest of my life.

ExH claimed to be blindsided which I found very discombobulating, as ending the marriage/separation had been raised by me several times in the months preceding the split. (And also even if I hadn’t, if you hit your wife/call her terrible names/terrorise your family with your moods you really shouldn’t be surprised if your marriage ends). I came to realise it was just another sign of him literally not listening to me or engaging with anything I said.

I often wonder now, when I see posts on here of people claiming to be blindsided by their marriage ending, how wilfully blind they have been to issues in their marriage - my exH certainly thought I would never leave.

By who?

I think it’s important to remember we only get one side of the story on here, so can only respond to what we are told.

Being left hurts so if someone has left you it's easier psychologically to make them the bad guy in your mind.

I agree with @Endoftheroad12345 posts. I always wonder how people can claim their relationship was good and they were blindsided by someone leaving. It couldn't have been that good if they didn't notice that their partner was unhappy enough to leave.

Pretty sure (though he’s never said it) I am the bad guy in my ex husbands eyes.

No one else has viewed me that way that I know of. Possibly his family but we don’t speak.

No cheating or untoward behaviour. It just wasn’t working for many reasons so I tried to call it a day many times… and then he finally listened, and we did.

@DepartureLounge thank you for your post, it's a great isight. To be fair, I think women are better off when leaving long term relationships because we do tend to have better social relationships (and there are some studies to prove it). So we have bigger networks, more friends, more things to do and yes...more opportunity to actually meet new partner if we want to.

@Endoftheroad12345 I find this so relatable! I left my ex after 12 years (we started dating as teenagers), the relationship was turning increasingly toxic and he always have had an emotionally abusive strike - but it was always "just" on a verge of it being interpreted as such. He was generally simply seen as unpleasant asshole

However, I know for a fact that when I left him he threw such a pity party that some people stopped speaking to me for a bit.

I just meant generally, the times I have heard "he walked out on his family" or "he left his wife in her 50s alone, it will be very hard for her to meet someone" or even this week " he left rather than trying"

It is likely that ending a relationship if the other person is still emotionally invested and if there are children will always cause at least some pain and damage but it can be minimised by not being a dick. .

I struggle a bit with the idea that if you don't try, you are the bad person.

I don't want to try. I don't want counselling, date nights, rejigged household chore rotas. I want to leave.

I've spend years putting up with a selfish arsehole.

Now that I've had enough of him, he's decided to start putting in some effort and I'm the baddie for not appreciating it.

I agree. In my experience, the whole counselling, date nights, rejigged chore rotas thing doesn't work anyway, or not long-term. Maybe I'm being unfair but if you get to the point where that's where the solution appears to lie, there probably isn't a solution really.

Counselling can help clarify that a relationship is over though, and that can minimise the bad guy fallout, so is worth a go from that pov alone imo, especially if there are kids and you need things to stay civilised. Not if there's been any kind of abuse or control though. I had read that on here a lot but was blown away by how manipulative couples counselling turned out to be (though that was a helpful insight in itself).