Sexual coercion - to forgive or divorce?

[lechug4]

long and complicated - sorry!

So I recently realised (because it was pointed out by a friend who witnessed it) that my husband has been sexually coercing me and manipulating me into having sex/performing sexual acts.

For years now I’ve not enjoyed our sex life and wasn’t sure why, but now I can see and pinpoint all the times where I’ve said no, and he’s gotten angry with me, manipulated my feelings, emotionally blackmailed me, and ignored my upset. the most recent being that we were at a festival, he got extremely jealous and possessive with me, even though I’ve never given him reasons to question my loyalty to him. The next morning he was so angry with me and I didn’t know why. To ease things and to try and still have a good time at the festival I apologised and took the blame (I now see this was stupid) he told me the only thing that would make him stop being cross was if we had sex. I definitely didn’t want that, told him as such, he then said a hand job would do. That doing something sexual with him was the only way I could prove I wanted him and it would make him feel better. I still insisted that I didn’t want to, but his bad mood and nagging was so upsetting that I went through with it (hand job) he knew I was angry and upset while doing it, told me to smile and talk dirty to him. And even after it all he still remained cross with me and didn’t let us enjoy the last day of the festival.

Lots of googling and talking to my friend and I’ve been able to label it as sexual coercion and emotional blackmail. Told him that this is what it was.

He is now remorseful, says he didn’t realise what it was, keeps saying sorry, telling me how much he loves me etc.

I’m not sure I can forgive this. He knew I didn’t want to and went ahead anyway, and it’s shone a light on countless other times where it’s been similar situations, including me even crying while carrying out a sexual act, and instead of apologising he’s gotten angry at me and arguments blew up for days after.

He‘a hurting and I’m hurting. We have two young kids and have been together for 10 years. If we weren’t married and didn’t have kids I’d have left. But there’s too many complications, our lives are entangled. I haven’t worked since our first was born 6 years ago so the thought of divorce terrifies me. Financially I couldn’t support our children. We don’t own a property.

Apart from the obvious that I’ve just stated, he’s an amazing father, a good intelligent person and I always believed he cared for me. I still believe he does and I believe it won’t happen again, but I just don’t know how to get over the past of what’s happened.

Has anyone else been through this and either forgiven/made it work? Or is divorce my only option?

@lechug4

Warning, this gets quite graphic and may be triggering

Let me share my experience with you. I was with my ex for several years and I convinced myself what was happening wasn’t coercion or sexual abuse. Before kids it was a bit on the rougher side but I was young and thought it was all a bit Hollywood/porn/young people in the throes of passion. To be honest I’d never had a respectful sexual relationship and thought being used for male enjoyment was just part of the parcel.

What made me start wondering was when pregnant with our first. Towards the end I was in pain with SPD, yet still tried it on. Then the baby came. My body had never been through what childbirth is, no one tells you exactly how much it affects you mentally and physically. Two weeks post birth he started complaining about the (minimum) six week wait. After 5 weeks I couldn’t take the moaning and inappropriate touches anymore, I gave in. I wasn’t ready and hated every second of it. On the sofa whilst the baby slept. I should have known that moment that I wasn’t anything more to him than a fuckhole, now tied to him forever. Same thing happened with our second, a tough birth and an extremely clingy baby who never slept. I honestly can barely remember that first year but I remember him not leaving me alone.

The roughness got worse, started leaving bruises and scratches on me, bites, occasionally a hand around the neck. Called it a kink and I still told myself it simply was what it was. I did ask him to stop, and it did mostly but he wasn’t happy about it. Once we had his parents visit, he got off on the idea of whisking me upstairs for a ‘quickie’. He wouldn’t let it be, in the end I gave in because (and it’s difficult even writing this out) I was so horrified at the thought of them seeing him ’excited’ that I just wanted to get it over with. I’m still humiliated about that to this day. So many other times he groped me inappropriately in passing, rubbing himself against me at any moment and going on about wanting something sexual no matter the time of day or the appropriateness of it. So many times I fully said no, had to physically push him away from me and he acted like it was some sort of challenge.

By the time our relationship was coming to an end, I wouldn’t even let him touch me. I was covering up, I put on so much weight just to be left alone. When I eventually called it a day he basically said ‘yeah but we can still be fuck buddies right?’. We still had to share a home for a while and he used to try and watch me undress. He still makes inappropriate comments towards me to this day, or I catch him staring at me in a leering way.

Sorry for the huge essay/offload. What I’m trying to say is men like this are inexcusable. They really are. Because to you in the moment it is excusable, as it was to me. But having anyone else from the outside look in and you see it all for what it actually is. And if my story tells you anything, it doesn’t stop until you make it stop. These type of men only see us a walking sex object, and the more we fight against it the more they enjoy it and manipulate us into thinking this is in anyway healthy. Don’t let it go on for as long as I did - you are worth so much more.

Gerretaere I am sorry that happened to you. I hope you are okay now and have manage to process what happened. All the best.

The thing is about rape is that even when you don't know why it feels wrong or what label to put on it, you know it at some level. Victims of child marriage who have never known anything else know it is wrong. The absence of freely given consent makes you the slave and him the slave owner.

Sex is something you do with someone not something you have done to you. When a man. "carries on" even though he knows you don't want it, he is enjoying it. Men often like the porn ideal that male pleasure is so important that women will suffer to provide it. I don't believe a man who will ejaculate whilst fucking a woman he coerced into sex doesn't enjoy her pain.

If you want to forgive him,.up to you. You absolutely don't have to though because he knew what he was doing.

I’m all good, but thank you. I’m enjoying my own life in peace. If I ever have a sexual encounter again it will be on my own terms but I won’t lie, I’ve been put off men for a long time.

this is something that will never be shared with them and they will never be aware of

How can they not be aware of this when he is angry with you for days, spoils events (even when you have given in to his demands), becomes possessive and angry? They may not know the worst of it, but if his behaviour continues, your children certainly will be aware of it.

I would take joint counselling off the table until you've both been through individual counselling, and only then if your counsellor (who should specialise in abuse) advises it.

@OlderandwiserMaybe apology accepted. If he organises it himself and truly steps up, there may be some hope for redemption. If he tries to push it on OP, then I will agree with the majority here that he isn't worth it.

@lechug4 most therapists do not advise joint therapy in parallel with solo. They advise to look at your own issues first, get to the bottom of where any individual problems come from. Then, if you choose to work on the relationship, you go to a separate therapist together. You should have different solo therapists so the narrative cannot be manipulated behind the other one's back.

All of this could take many months, maybe years. It will not fit the MN desire to have a thread posted, and have the OP pack her bags and LTB before 1000 replies are received. Be patient and kind with yourself and make sure you are living the life you want, regardless of which way you decide.

Have you outright asked him why he made you do things that he knew you didn't want to do?

He's a sexual abuser. How has he been since his 'revelation'?

I could never get past that sexual coercion.

I wasn’t pinned down and raped, there’s many levels of sexual abuse and I’m just trying to figure out how unforgivable it is for me

That anyone finds any sexual abuse potentially forgivable is extremely sad.

If he's really so sorry, then he will agree to marriage counselling.

Give yourself time to process it all. You don't have to make a decision right now. Just know that you hold more power, now that the penny has dropped, than you ever did. Don't make any promises, be open about not knowing at this point if it can be fixed in the end. Put the ball totally in his court meantime. He has to do therapy, you should take all the time you need to breathe and just be without pestering.
You are convinced he loves you, but that is not necessarily enough, somehow he has to change his whole attitude to womankind really.
Bide your time have set boundaries and a zero tolerance to manipulation of any kind - sexual or otherwise ( the jealousy is a big issue).
Sit back and wait, see how long the feelings of remorse last. Somehow, I doubt his apparent epiphany will result in a personality transplant, which is basically the extent of the turnaround that would be required.
Let's say in the unlikely scenario ( one that you are probably hoping for) that he can change it all. Well, he can expect and has to be accepting, of no sexual activity for a very long time, which, if he is now genuine about his love, should not be an issue for him at all. So, he has to wait for you to want to make moves in that direction, he has to decide if hope is enough, because its fine that you may never want him I that way again.

It's not a one off is it. It's sexual abuse. Withholding affection, sulking, anger etc if you don't do what he wants is a very strong indicator. If you give in to keep the peace, it is abuse.

It's quite shocking when you realise and see it for what it is. I only realised during a Women's Aid course I was on for abuse survivors. I knew my ex had abused me financially and emotionally, but had not properly thought through the sex side of things. We had already split by then. I don't think there's a way back from it.

It never gets it gets worse my situation ended up with him drugging and raping me
it was years of constant silent treatment nasty words then started bullying the kids until I agreed to do sex acts he knew I didn’t like or hurt me

I also can’t believe the crying incident, that’s actually repulsed me. How could you ever get past that.

I'm sorry Op but you are kidding yourself if you think his abuse isn't affecting your children. A man sulking, ignoring his wife, being angry for days.... they will know about it. And if they don't already understand it, they will before too long.

If your daughter was in your position....if the man who was meant to love and protect her above all else was actually sexually abusing her, coercing, guilt-tripping her in to sexual acts that made her cry, if she was with a man who thought she 'owed' him sex....what would you want her to do? WOuld you think that's all she deserved, and she should put up with it so as not to hurt his feelings? Would you advise she should stick it out 'for the children'?

This man does not care for you. He has been abusing you and he didn't care. He knew what he was doing (he'd have to be pretty stupid to not understand 'no' or 'I don't want to do that' or someone crying. He stuff, he sulks, gets angry, punishes you for days for refusing him. He knows what he's been doing. The only difference now is that he realises you've just cottoned on to it, and he's desperately trying to protect himself. Because he knows how vile he will look if you tell anyone about his behaviour. He doesn't want to lose the benefits and the facade of a happy marriage.

Be clear - he isn't a good husband. He has beenb ignoring your distress for years. I'd say he's been getting off on it, certainly didn't mind getting his kicks while you were repulsed / upset / hurting.

Don't stay 'for the children'. Children rarely benefit from living in the home with a broken marriage. It will rub off on them and they may choose relationshops in teh future like yours, because they'll see it as normal.

And even if your DH promised to change TODAY and nerv acted like that again - how could you ever trust him or fancy him again? You know that he acted like that for YEARS. Knowing you were unahppy. And only took action when it was about to impact him.

He is selfish. He's abusive. He doesn't respect or care for your feelings. Please please please leave this vile man.

I’m trying to be fair in this, taking in what he’s feeling and saying and also trying to make sense of my feelings

I are under no obligation to consider his feelings - he has been ignoring yours for years. Has been trampling all over them in fact. This is also not time to be fair - this is time to stand up for yourself.

Remember the best predictor of future behaviour, is past behaviour. This instance wasn't a one off; his coercive behaviour is a long established, entrenched pattern. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, accepting he wants to change - this type of entrenched mindset and behaviour pattern will take a considerable amount of therapy, which probably won't be available through the NHS and is specialised. It will be hard work for him and if he's not finding hard work, he ain't doing the work. It is that simple.

I worry that you will continue to live together during any therapy, so for you the potential threat of repeat coercive behaviour will still be there, stifling your ability to heal and grow. You need that space. He can't share the same home as you and give your that space, therefore he needs to move out, at least until his therapy is well underway.

I think at the very least he needs to move out, sort out a good therapist and get started. That space from him, is part of your therapy.

It takes a while to come to terms with the fact that your marriage is abusive - I know from experience that it's somehow a huge shock, and entirely obvious, all at once.

You'll kick him out when you're ready - not on the say-so of any one on here but when your heart/head says ENOUGH! It will happen I promise, but in the meanwhile buy yourself some peace and thinking time by insisting on a trial separation. That way you're not listening to his bleating whilst you are trying to sort your own head out...and you'll understand more about how genuine his remorse is, or not, by his reaction and his willingness to give you space.

Don't let him abuse you further by making you listen to and "understand" what he wants or needs, the time for that is long gone, this is about what you want for you and the kids. That will be a new feeling, and it's hard to hold onto at first when you've been so used to running things the way he wanted them...but gradually or suddenly you will find your anger and your strength, and use those to re-frame things the way you want them to be.

the most recent being that we were at a festival, he got extremely jealous and possessive with me, even though I’ve never given him reasons to question my loyalty to him. The next morning he was so angry with me and I didn’t know why. To ease things and to try and still have a good time at the festival I apologised and took the blame

The sexual coercion isn't the only problem.

You say you're a sahm Mum,nowhere to live

You can rent somewhere, you can get UC, you can work a bit alongside UC, if you get UC you get 85% of childcare paid for 2 kids (called at appeox 1600 a month), you are owed child maintenance starting at 12% for first child ..... That will be affected by how many overnights your abusive h chooses to do however. On UC you'll get reduced council tax etc, schoo.uniforn help, school meals help. It is doable. Talk to women's aid and CAB.

*if you get UC you get 85% of childcare paid for 2 kids (capped at approx 1600 a month) .... While you're working, in case it isn't clear.

*starting at 12% for first child(of his salary).

There is a calculator online - depends a lot on how many overnights he has them, would need to be carefully recorded

Whatever you do, go back to work, you don’t want to be dependent on him. If it’s not working in a year or two you want a practical plan for getting out.

TBH OP his behaviour sounds vile and I find it very hard to believe a decent person could behave like this and not be aware of it, so I cannot help but suspect he isn’t being honest. I’d also guess you are so ground down you can’t see the wood for the trees.

Anyway what’s good is you are not aware of it and have called him on it. So work through what you need to, but get back to work.

I'm sorry, OP, it's not believable that he is hurting and remorseful. No decent human being could do what he did over and over again. He is playing the game to shut you up. You are in an abusive relationship.