Sexual coercion - to forgive or divorce?

[lechug4]

long and complicated - sorry!

So I recently realised (because it was pointed out by a friend who witnessed it) that my husband has been sexually coercing me and manipulating me into having sex/performing sexual acts.

For years now I’ve not enjoyed our sex life and wasn’t sure why, but now I can see and pinpoint all the times where I’ve said no, and he’s gotten angry with me, manipulated my feelings, emotionally blackmailed me, and ignored my upset. the most recent being that we were at a festival, he got extremely jealous and possessive with me, even though I’ve never given him reasons to question my loyalty to him. The next morning he was so angry with me and I didn’t know why. To ease things and to try and still have a good time at the festival I apologised and took the blame (I now see this was stupid) he told me the only thing that would make him stop being cross was if we had sex. I definitely didn’t want that, told him as such, he then said a hand job would do. That doing something sexual with him was the only way I could prove I wanted him and it would make him feel better. I still insisted that I didn’t want to, but his bad mood and nagging was so upsetting that I went through with it (hand job) he knew I was angry and upset while doing it, told me to smile and talk dirty to him. And even after it all he still remained cross with me and didn’t let us enjoy the last day of the festival.

Lots of googling and talking to my friend and I’ve been able to label it as sexual coercion and emotional blackmail. Told him that this is what it was.

He is now remorseful, says he didn’t realise what it was, keeps saying sorry, telling me how much he loves me etc.

I’m not sure I can forgive this. He knew I didn’t want to and went ahead anyway, and it’s shone a light on countless other times where it’s been similar situations, including me even crying while carrying out a sexual act, and instead of apologising he’s gotten angry at me and arguments blew up for days after.

He‘a hurting and I’m hurting. We have two young kids and have been together for 10 years. If we weren’t married and didn’t have kids I’d have left. But there’s too many complications, our lives are entangled. I haven’t worked since our first was born 6 years ago so the thought of divorce terrifies me. Financially I couldn’t support our children. We don’t own a property.

Apart from the obvious that I’ve just stated, he’s an amazing father, a good intelligent person and I always believed he cared for me. I still believe he does and I believe it won’t happen again, but I just don’t know how to get over the past of what’s happened.

Has anyone else been through this and either forgiven/made it work? Or is divorce my only option?

Of course you hate causing pain to others. Most normal people are the same!!

Honestly think about the time you cried about having sex - and then he was cross with you for days afterwards. Is that the actions of a good partner?? The hell it isn't!!!! I'm so sorry @lechug4 You are in an abusive relationship. The sadness and remorse he is showing you now I'm afraid is more manipulation. He's doing that so you wont leave. He knows you're an empath and he's taking advantage.

You dont say if either of your children are girls. But think of it this way - if your children when they are grown up were in a relationship like yours - would you want them to stay in it? If you stay you are teaching your children to put up with shitty behaviour.
You say you've been unhappy with your sex life for years so this is not a new thing. Your husband is not going to suddenly change just because you've named his behaviour.

Speak to your therapist about it - they might help you clarify what do to.

He's not hurting. He's not a good man.

Over empathising with abusive people will only ever bring you pain.

I mean this gently but I think you’re justifying why you need to stay with this man. It is not a unique situation where women stay for financial reasons, fear of going it alone etc.

of course he’s not repulsed by himself simply as you put a name to it. You know this. The whole line of he humiliates you sexually and you then say oh do you know this is coercion and he suddenly is repulsed by himself is not remotely believable in any context.

I really hope deep down you understand the choice you’re making and are at peace with them, and have the strength when he next does it, and he will, abusers always do, I hope you’ve the strength not do the sex act so he can get off on your humiliation which is your punishment,

You know him best OP.

If he's genuinely remorseful and swears never to do anything of the sort again, give it another go. Just make sure he's aware that if you even feel slightly that way again, he will need to go immediately.

Yeah, I’m fucking repulsed by him as well. He is despicable.

He’s an abuser and what he is doing is a crime.

I’d leave.

"but it’s the issue of if we didn’t have kids and weren’t married the outcome is easier, just leave."

Actually @lechug4, the decision is easier BECAUSE you have kids and you are married. You need to protect the kids and you are protected in law because you are married.

Get out of there, he hasn't changed, he's still abusing you just a different way.

MN is very black and white about these things, which is itself both a good thing and a bad thing. People will be direct but it can only ever be based on the written words, not the whole history. And it is rarely that simple.

When a single issue about someone is presented, we do not get to see all the other characteristics and complexities of a relationship.

If you are truly conflicted about whether to stay in the relationship, you both need therapy. Separately. Not together. He needs to truly show he is willing to explore why he has done this and demonstrate change, consistently, through action, not words. You need to understand why you have accepted it for so long and learn how to put boundaries in place to stop it ever happening again either in this relationship or any potential future one.

In the mean time, all sexual activity between you is off the table. And it stays there unless/until you are ready to resume and have decided if he is worth your effort.

I expect to get blasted for this, but so be it.

including me even crying while carrying out a sexual act

Leave him and don't look back.

Of course you hate causing pain to others. Most normal people are the same!!

Exactly. Your abuser on the other hand.......

Its generally NOT advisable for anyone to attempt relationship therapy or guidance if one of the couple is an abuser. Thats because it can make the abuse worse and it also tips the abuser off that their partner is considering leaving and (beleive me I know) all hell can break loose.
@lechug4 You already mentioned a therapist for yourself - which I recommend you speak to - but think VERY carefully before considering joint therapy with this man.

sorry @Mylefttoe I totally missed your comment about the separately not together. (wish there was a delete button!!!) In which case - therapy for OP might be very useful - but I would highly doubt the OP's husband would be willing to seek therapy for himself. Because abusers never accept there is anything wrong with them.

This was one of the reasons for my divorce. I’m sorry OP. It ate at me emotionally for years. I felt used and cheap after I did it when I was forced to. I didn’t know it was coercion either but I did know it was emotional blackmail. Also one of the reasons I went to therapy cos I felt used and it affected me. He had the upper hand re salary and earnings. I was just in the NHS as a secretary. I didn’t wait until I had a better job etc- I walked away and picked myself up.
you need to consider if you can live with yourself after it especially as it has gone on for ages.
I began to resent my ex for it and I won’t lie, I still do when I remember it or when scenes from certain episodes just come up in my head i get sad and sometimes cry- just cos of how I felt then when it was going on and how it made me look at myself.

im so sorry you’re going through it. Being remorseful is all he can do really, but it doesn’t heal the damage already caused. Big hugs xx

@Mylefttoe @OlderandwiserMaybe

he agreed to therapy straight away, to work through the insecurity issues and his possessiveness, and some toxic masculinity that has been underlying throughout our relationship.

I will also attend separate therapy.

I thought doing separate and joint therapy at the same time would work? Joint therapy to talk through the sexual coercion?

I’ve told him he needs therapy regardless of how this ends for us.

I’m not in danger, he’s never physically enforced anything or hurt me.

@chocobaby I’m so sorry you’ve been through something similar. Unless you’re in it it’s hard to understand how difficult it is to figure out what to do. Thank you for taking the time to write and advise.

It has affected the way I see myself, I do worry about not getting over it and never fully forgiving him. I worry about future arguments, incase I were to feel he was manipulating me or me throwing the abuse in his face. I don’t think that I will never want to be intimate with him ever again.

But on the flip side I worry about throwing away a 10 year relationship that had many facets. I worry about the effect it has on my children (2 boys, 3 and 5 - people have mentioned ‘what am I showing them about relationships if I stay?’ , but this is something that will never be shared with them and they will never be aware of)
I worry that I won’t be able to support my children. I worry about hurting my husband who, yes, agreed has hurt me, but has also spent years doing right by me (minus the now obvious)
It’s not plain sailing, I wasn’t pinned down and raped, there’s many levels of sexual abuse and I’m just trying to figure out how unforgivable it is for me, taking in to account all the complications, ties and tangles.

He's crying for himself.

Would you like this life for your daughter if you have one?

Would you like your son to be a rapist like his father?

Men like your husband are devoid of any shred of decency.

He cries for himself.

I feel desperately sorry for you and I can understand this is very difficult, whatever you decide.

Don't kid yourself that he is a good man, husband or father though.

He really is scum.

I wouldn't want him near any child of mine.

He has zero moral compass.

Sexually assaulting you as you cried, his wife, mother of his children?

Christ, but he really is the utter dregs of humanity.

He should be in jail with the other criminals.

See how he reacts when you suggest that you go to talk to your GP and the police?

Don't kid yourself he didn't know he was sexually assaulting you.

He knew well.

He's only crying because you finally have realised sexually assaulting and raping your wife is a crime.

It's very obvious you are not going to LTB at this point. But you are clearly aware that there are huge issues here.

So, the therapy at individual level is essential and a deal breaker (saying he'll go to therapy is very different to actually going to therapy).
Ditto, actions speak louder than words. So you need to be 100% clear in your own head about wha behaviours you consider acceptable and what you will not accept and be prepared to stop/walk away the moment any of the unacceptable behaviours rear their end. Every. Time.

Unfortunately, like others on this thread, I'm not that optimistic that it's going to work or that he will change. But I understand that you are not going to just walk away 5 minutes after you've realised what's going on. So stay alert, stay strong and think honestly about what you can and can't live with.

@OhBling
I’ve not made a decision either way, but I’m trying to fairly figure out what I want to do. It could be the end, or I could try and work with him to fix things. It’s never going to be simple and in my answers I’m in no way indicating that I’ve chosen to stay. I’m reading everything and taking it all in, this is all very new (8 days) and I have lots of information to gather and mull over from various sources.

You were crying during a sexual act? That alone would be enough. I'm so sorry.

OP what do you reasonably think can solve things with someone who has repeatedly sexually coerced someone else for 10 years.

what would you say if you knew your sons replicated this behaviour? what would your advice be to young girls in similar situations.

I am so so sorry this has happened to you and i promise you a lot of us recognise how scary it is coming to the realisation you have been assaulted and then how you deal with the aftermath.

all my instincts want to tell you to run away from this man.

But if you're not there yet nothing strangers on the internet say can change the matter. I would recommend getting some help in processing this as suggested by other posters.

But also look at getting back to work even if its part-time, this might make your feel stronger financially if you do decide to leave as well as building a network outside of your family that has no connection to this man.

It’s difficult isn’t it? Yes you should protect your boys from ever knowing this information but also protect yourself from tue fallout which can be quite difficult. In my own case, my ex was not on my list of things to worry about. If I’m entirely honest I wanted to hurt him as he did me. Plus he was also a cheat so that didn’t help.

I get worrying about not being able to look after your boys- it is a valid source of anxiety. I stayed on for that reason but the moment I could, I asked for a divorce. I didn’t have much saved but he was paying the rent and paying for the kids. Now I’m doing really well so I don’t even care if he sends the money or not and my kids are grown.
Whether or not you decide to stay, please have an exit plan. Save some money and build up some savings for yourself. He doesn’t need to know about it.
my ex is a lawyer- he is a clever person and knew exactly what he was doing as I’m sure your husband does. No way he didn’t know that he was emotionally blackmailing you.
I hope that you make the decision that’s best for you first and foremost.

I think you need to ask yourself as well OP - if I didn't recognise this as abuse, what else might I be missing and not realising is abusive? It would definitely be worth considering the freedom programme.

You say your friend witnessed this - do you mean your OH was coercing you into sexual acts in front of her?

What does your therapist say about it all? I hope you've made sure they are with BACP as anyone can call themselves a therapist.

Your Husband has abused you and will continue to do so. His tears are to make you feel bad, he will do whatever to manipulate you. Don't be taken in by him. I divorced a man just like this. I had nowhere to go and 3 children but i just made things happen. One day you will have a true relationship where your partner treats you as he should, only then will you realise how abusive your marriage is. He is rotten to the core, don't let him steal your life.

He’s very remorseful, he’s repulsed by himself, he admits that it was wrong and would never put me in that position again

Not repulsed enough by himself to stop doing it though, was he?

It's the old 'I'm so sorry, it was a mistake, I'll change, I love you and you are my world' shtick. It's never a mistake until they get caught out.

he’s an amazing father, a good intelligent person

He just sexually assaulted his wife, the woman he claims to love and the mother of his children, for years. Yeah, right. What's 'good, 'amazing' or 'intelligent' about that?

If you must stay you need to step back and watch.

Let him organise his own therapist. Just check they are accredited - I know someone who encountered a toxic anti women therapist recently. see if he actually bothers or just waits for the dust to settle and ‘the nonsense to blow over’. If I was a betting person I would say unless you organise it /encourage it the likelihood of him having seen a counsellor by the end of July is slim. So don’t mention it again- watch him.

Access your own counsellor to explore why you think he’s a good dad (good dads don’t abuse their children’s mothers - affecting the mothers self esteem and causing her trauma). Explore why you didn’t recognise his behaviour as abusive.

Normally when men accuse their oh of being unfaithful it is because they assume your motivation is the same as his. Maybe he gets up to such behaviour so he thinks you do too. Alternatively it’s so ge has an excuse to treat you badly. Or maybe he has low self esteem that he needs to resolve.

If you must stay, observe him. Come back here to ask other women what they think.

Also if he gets defensive you’ve probably hit a raw nerve. Why does he feel entitled to sex. Why is his pleasure more important than yours. Can he answer this? Dare you ask it? How does he react? If he doesn’t realise why he feels it’s okay to sexually assault his wife then he can’t improve. But that means he needs to admit it and recognise why. Porn can desensitise emotion (according to some studies) - is porn a problem for him?