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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Re evaluating my marriage with a drinker

68 replies

Krickley · 23/06/2023 11:47

Hi, so my husband has always drank a fair amount over the years. Managed to rein it in at times when ive raised it as too much. Recently though hes almost hiding his drinking during the week when he should be being alcohol free. Example, i wont see his beer glass but i know hes drinking because i can see in his face, eyes and also his behaviour plus can smell it on his breath. Last night, there were a couple of cans of beer in the fridge, i never saw his beer glass but i could hear him very slowly opening them, washing up his glass afterwards. Today i went looking for the empty cans. No where to be seen. Not in our recycle bin/any bins. He will often wash up a glass and pop it back into the cupboard. My ears are highly trained in listening to him doing this 😒 i hate the noise of a can opening.

this is a problem isnt it.

friday/saturday/sunday he openly drinks because its the weekend and he can

ive voiced leaving him over this as i dont think its a good environment for the children to grow up in. He denies he has an issue with drinking and denies drinking mid week/daily

OP posts:
Us3rname · 23/06/2023 19:56

As someone who was a secret drinker before getting sober, I think you should proceed on the assumption that what you know about is the tip of the iceberg. And he may have managed to keep it more secret for years, and now it's escalating and he's taking more risks about what he drinks when so you notice more (because his disease has progressed).

But, saying that, attempting to work out what's going on with amounts etc will only make you unwell as it's a form of obsession &, in the end, pointless.

As someone who drank secretly, disposed of evidence etc: The power of rationalisation is colossal.... I just felt like it was what I needed to do & had a right to do. I think I thought multiple things at one time: a sense of entitlement to drink what I wanted when I wanted (therefore contempt at those who would have disapproved) but also incredible shame at what I was doing. I also got arrogant at my ability to drink how I wanted without others knowing. But the wheels came off. Of course, it's all downstream from addictive pathways. But stopping it required insight from me, and to be honest, a few relapses where I returned to secret drinking having thought I'd found the trick to make it work (this time I wouldn't have that one too many & other self -delusions).
Definitely don't feel guilty about considering ending things, it's a very fragile place to put your trust — especially if he's never admitted he's an alcoholic? Not that that's enough, but it's an essential start.

Pearlsaminga · 23/06/2023 21:36

Krickley · 23/06/2023 19:43

Im genuinely a healthy person deep down except im currently a size 18 and unfit. I put this down to all the worry i put into this relationship. I do pretty much all of the parenting. He doesn’t really get involved. Im trying to find time to get out and exercise and meal plan but every day is almost firefighting homelife. Im already doing it 💯 alone and i think if he wasnt here, id be able to plan easier

It's very stressful carrying everything yourself, very hard to find time to exercise when, plus having to cope with the anger & resentment at your partners behaviour.

Rockingchai · 23/06/2023 21:46

Us3rname · 23/06/2023 19:56

As someone who was a secret drinker before getting sober, I think you should proceed on the assumption that what you know about is the tip of the iceberg. And he may have managed to keep it more secret for years, and now it's escalating and he's taking more risks about what he drinks when so you notice more (because his disease has progressed).

But, saying that, attempting to work out what's going on with amounts etc will only make you unwell as it's a form of obsession &, in the end, pointless.

As someone who drank secretly, disposed of evidence etc: The power of rationalisation is colossal.... I just felt like it was what I needed to do & had a right to do. I think I thought multiple things at one time: a sense of entitlement to drink what I wanted when I wanted (therefore contempt at those who would have disapproved) but also incredible shame at what I was doing. I also got arrogant at my ability to drink how I wanted without others knowing. But the wheels came off. Of course, it's all downstream from addictive pathways. But stopping it required insight from me, and to be honest, a few relapses where I returned to secret drinking having thought I'd found the trick to make it work (this time I wouldn't have that one too many & other self -delusions).
Definitely don't feel guilty about considering ending things, it's a very fragile place to put your trust — especially if he's never admitted he's an alcoholic? Not that that's enough, but it's an essential start.

This really resonates with me - the mixture of sense of entitlement to drink and the competing shame - just like my ex.

For me it was the hypervigilence of listening for the sound of a wine bottle slowly and stealthily unscrewing. And yes towards the end - my son discovered the bottles of gin hidden in the car. I’d had no idea.

When I left the wheels fell off. Lost his driving license in 6 months. Off work “sick” for 9 months. A period of residential rehab and abstinence for 10 months and now it’s worse than ever. He’s a health professional and about to be struck off for drinking. End stages of alcoholism after decades of being mainly functioning. Like a PP above - he was a joy when sober, he was great when drinking not so much, but in the end those periods shrunk and disappeared. I am so glad I left 3 years ago but the impact is devastating and on-going

perfectcolourfound · 24/06/2023 08:01

Krickley · 23/06/2023 14:08

Someone else had put on another drinking thread this week about staying together “in sickness and in health” yeah but at what cost? I mean if the person is drinking themselves into an early grave vs an unforeseen illness, that’s different surely. I dont want to end up his carer

The person who said that has never lived with an addict. Or they have a really sceked idea of how relationships should work. Or both.

'in sickness and in health' means that you support EACH OTHER. You stick by EACH OTHER. You don't walk away when things get tough for one of you. You're BOTH willing to care for the other.

Your situation isn't an 'in sickness and in health' situation. That marriage promise doesn't mean that one partnerhas to stick around to their own deteriment (and their children's detriment) if the other partner develops a damaging addiction, treats them with no respect, tries to slowly kill themselves with drink, becomes an awful partner, lies, gaslights, spends family money on alcohol, and blames other people for their problems.

I've been where you are. I treated my marriage promoses seriously. But I knew (and people around me, including the priest who married us) reassured me that I needed to get away, for my sake and the DCs.

He will bring you down with him. He will damage all your lives. He is choosing alcohol over his family. Please break free. I never regretted it for a second.

solice84 · 24/06/2023 08:12

Just a word of warning
Try and get evidence
I didn't
He demanded 50/50 custody
I had no proof and at the time he was in a really respectable job , no convictions, told me he'd 'tell the court and everyone else I was crazy'

Fast forward to now and he's lost his driving license, his career and is telling me he will keep his hair too short for testing 🤦‍♀️
He's still trying to gaslight me into thinking he's done no wrong, still won't admit he has a drink problem . Still wants 50/50 and wants dc to go to a school where he has moved to about 45mins one way from me

It's going to get really messy but I'll fight it all the way . Just wish I'd got evidence before throwing him out instead of being in shock at finding him paralytic at breakfast time

Didimum · 24/06/2023 09:05

My dad is currently hospitalised for cirrhosis and liver cancer at 60 for long term drinking less than you describe. There was a post here a couple of months ago from a woman whose husband had been diagnosed with cirrhosis at 45 for drinking about the same amount as you describe. Prognosis 5-15yrs depending on the severity.

Merlinsbeard83 · 24/06/2023 09:15

He sounds like my dad. He is a lovely dad . But all my life He has drank between 4 to 8 cans a night . If he has it he drinks it . He is nearly 72 now. We have all tried to help him. My mum left him years ago because of it. He still thinks it's not a problem.

noodles44 · 24/06/2023 09:28

Another here who feels your pain and has been in a similar situation. The hyper awareness of the noise of a can opening is horrible. My ex used to drink on his way home (I now know) and come straight in to open a beer stating an awful day at work and he was just having one to relax, this was so I didn't smell the previous pints on his breath.
He would also express either disgust at whatever I was cooking or say the pasta dish needed garlic bread, so would walk to the local co-op for whatever he decided was needed. He would call in the pub or the off licence and down vodka. I always thought for the fuss he had made about getting garlic bread, it was odd he only ate one slice! Plus he would almost cause a row to go out for a walk. To all intents and purposes, he looked like he had had one or two beers in an evening, he is fairly slim, so I thought some days alcohol just affected him differently.

I did realise he was drinking more than the one or two he appeared to drink eventually and tipped out the recycling bin and found 60 cans from 10 days (& he had been out on work Christmas parties 2 nights and not drunk and had come in absolutely steaming) so effectively 8 nights empties. I didn't realise until after I had left and had counselling that he was loading up on his co-op shop trips, he since confirmed this. He even blamed our neighbours for stealing the crate of beer he had left by the back door (one at a time!!) the Christmas that we split up.

He was always promising to cut down and have drink free nights in the week. The reality was he was the most bad tempered guy ever on the odd occasion he really didn't drink, plus went to bed very early. He wasn't always like this, he used to be the really fun, chatty lovely guy everyone sought out, he seemed to deteriorate from that guy very quickly to the secretive drinker. I found empty gin bottles in the wardrobe and said enough as like you, was already a single parent effectively, but with this horrific alcoholic child too that took up too much head space.

After I left he went to rehab (twice) he lost his good job and has had a variety of odd jobs that he has either walked out of due to a disagreement, or been told to go due to drinking on the job. He has been arrested/prosecuted for drink driving (over 4x over the limit) and has told me many times he is about to take his life (he hasn't) He found a new victim/girlfriend relatively quickly after I left who must have issues to still be supporting him and he rarely sees his children as it interrupts his drinking/or as he says he doesn't want them to see him when he isn't good. He has frightened them in the past with sudden outbursts, but to be honest, for quite some time now I only allow him to see them if I am there too (if they want to see them) as it is the only way they feel secure around him now.

I am so glad I left when I did and my children are so much better with just me. They have had it explained in an age appropriate way that he has issues around alcohol and it is not because of anything to do with them etc etc. Had I left it longer, I think it would have impacted them so much more. In reality, he was only this bad in probably the last 6 months of our marriage before I left. He was an utter nightmare to divorce though as buried his head in the sand about any correspondence. I also had breast cancer after leaving, I believe the stress of his behaviour impacted my health considerably. I am much much happier on my own with my fabulous children. He still rears his head now and then and after any interaction with him, I just feel utter relief to no longer be with him and that I am free of his drama.

All the best x

NoodlePlanet · 24/06/2023 09:36

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines - previously banned poster.

solice84 · 24/06/2023 09:37

@noodles44 mine also quickly found someone else and she has put up with more in less than a year than I did in nearly a decade from him
She's now running around taking my dc to nursery and picking up the pieces for him

noodles44 · 24/06/2023 09:50

@solice84 I was shocked he managed this, but it made my life much easier as a result as he effectively stopped bothering me so much as was initially pretty verbally abusive when I left. The reason I sought counselling was because I needed to work out how to deal with him as I kept having anxiety attacks. It was very beneficial. I turned my phone on to silent from 6pm every night so I didn't get his alcoholic tirades late at night and dealt with any reasonable query the next day. He soon stopped doing this when he realised I didn't look at my phone after a certain time.
My ex's girlfriend has been with him for 5 years now... Unbelievable as he has been much much worse whilst she has been looking after him!

georgianwindow · 24/06/2023 22:06

I think he knows it is a problem OP because he is trying to hide it from you.
It sounds like he is an alcoholic. Generally, alcoholics will lie about drinking, manipulate you in to thinking you're making a scene over nothing.

Young children living with alcoholics isn't good. It normalises drinking for them and means that they are often audience to a whole host of toxic behaviours that we would not want our children being around. An alcoholic can't possibly parent children or make good, safe decisions. It isn't a good environment for them and they come first here.

Your husband is probably also taking time off of his life span because of his drinking habits.

Personally I could not live with an alcoholic and would not want my children living with one either, they are the vulnerable individuals in this.

Zarataralara · 24/06/2023 23:41

Try this quiz, answering as though you’re your husband https://www.drinkaware.co.uk/tools/self-assessment

You can get support from AlAnon.
Living with an alcoholic becomes miserable, it deteriorates in so many ways.

Alcohol self-assessment test

Our quick alcohol self-assessment test can help you identify if your drinking is putting your health at risk or not.

https://www.drinkaware.co.uk/tools/self-assessment

Krickley · 25/06/2023 00:52

When you say “he might be drinking more than you know” earlier he went out to the shops. When he came back, he was putting the shopping away and i could smell alcohol on his breath. So i said oh did you meet X for a beer? No, he said, i just went shop. Very odd. Worrying.

OP posts:
Live2make · 25/06/2023 01:10

He IS drinking more than you see. I guarantee it.

Don't tie yourself in knots trying to find the truth about how much he is drinking.
You could stress yourself out and drive yourself mad turning private detective (I know I did) please save your energy.
It is too much. You already know it's too much
Put yourself and your children first, focus your energy on the changes you CAN make.

His decisions and actions are his alone.

SarahDippity · 25/06/2023 01:14

He’s hiding it. He’s denying it. You will feel increasingly trapped if you can’t leave the children in his care. This won’t help your own well-being.

Krickley · 25/06/2023 11:19

Zarataralara · 24/06/2023 23:41

Try this quiz, answering as though you’re your husband https://www.drinkaware.co.uk/tools/self-assessment

You can get support from AlAnon.
Living with an alcoholic becomes miserable, it deteriorates in so many ways.

He’s unsurprisingly “high risk”. If i showed this to him, he would not take it seriously. Yesterday i did talk to him about his drinking and one thing that struck - he said ive really cut down, ive not been drinking in the week. I know 💯 that he has. Perhaps having had one day off a week if anything

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 25/06/2023 11:45

You cannot help him. As Live2make has written here don't tie yourself in knots trying to find the truth about how much he is drinking. Policing his intake will not help you any.

You can only help your own self and your children here by having your H out of your day to day lives.

Shapemyeyebrows · 25/06/2023 11:52

@Krickley honestly, no matter how much you worry, fret, ask for advice, check if he’s high risk, etc, it really won’t make any difference to the situation. I have been in your position so I know how easy it is to get caught up in it, but until they acknowledge they have an issue and THEY want to do something about it then you really are wasting your time. I’ve had that sinking feeling many times where I have smelt alcohol when they weren’t supposed to be drinking, or finding cans in the bin. Also my ex would nip out to the shop because he really fancied some “insert random food here” and it became obvious he was using any excuse to go to the shop to quickly buy and sink a couple of cans before coming back home. I also naively thought my ex could just cut down but they can’t. They need to stop otherwise it’s going to be a constant tug of war. I think us who live with them are also in a state of denial to continue the relationship. In the end I knew my ex would never ever stop drinking completely, he did cut down but the issues were still there, he was slipping every so often and I was just exhausted being the drink police. And he openly admitted he didn’t want to stop completely as that would change his social life etc. So I left. My friends mum also took her own life because the husband was an alcoholic and it just consumed her and she felt that was the only way out. It really does become more your problem than theirs. It also will only get worse as he gets older.

solice84 · 25/06/2023 13:39

@Shapemyeyebrows it's so true
They have to want to change , any intervention from others is a waste of time
Op , you give him one ultimatum and you stick to it

Krickley · 25/06/2023 14:53

This has just come to me as well from our conversation yesterday. He said, on supposedly cutting down, well im not going to stop drinking. I enjoy it and i dont see why i should. I hadnt even asked him too

OP posts:
solice84 · 25/06/2023 14:54

Krickley · 25/06/2023 14:53

This has just come to me as well from our conversation yesterday. He said, on supposedly cutting down, well im not going to stop drinking. I enjoy it and i dont see why i should. I hadnt even asked him too

That's pretty much word for word what mine said
Told me I was being unreasonable to ask him to stop drinking
This is a man who drinks a bottle of red for breakfast
Unreasonable
Yup

AttilaTheMeerkat · 25/06/2023 15:08

Krickley

re your comment:
"This has just come to me as well from our conversation yesterday. He said, on supposedly cutting down, well im not going to stop drinking. I enjoy it and i dont see why i should".

You have your answer right there. His primary relationship is with drink, not you. He is an alcoholic in denial.

"I hadnt even asked him too"

Asking someone else to change, in this case stop drinking, is an exercise in futility. Only he can decide to stop drinking and he is telling you loud and clear he does not want to do so.

Shapemyeyebrows · 25/06/2023 15:09

@Krickley well you have your answer there. He’s no intention of stopping. He enjoys it too much. That was the realisation I had that made me leave my ex. Anything you say or do won’t matter and the longer you stay the worse it will get, you need to think about your children here. You cannot reason or win with an alcoholic who doesn’t accept they have a problem.

Zarataralara · 25/06/2023 16:59

Krickley · 25/06/2023 11:19

He’s unsurprisingly “high risk”. If i showed this to him, he would not take it seriously. Yesterday i did talk to him about his drinking and one thing that struck - he said ive really cut down, ive not been drinking in the week. I know 💯 that he has. Perhaps having had one day off a week if anything

This attitude is 100% alcoholic. If my ex husband drank 10 cans of lager instead of 12 he thought that was fine.
I could list the humiliating and dangerous situations he put himself and me in.
Keep repeating the three Cs to yourself and look to end the marriage. It is a downward spiral.