Why do I feel so threatened by my cousin Rachel

[MotherOfAllNameChanges15]

Well, she's not my cousin but my MIL but somehow this situation reminds me of the book My Cousin Rachel by Daphne du Maurier. At least what I vaguely remember from it. I read it decades ago and if the book is actually about fluffy rabbits on a ship then ignore my rambling. Or maybe ignore this bit anyway. It's going to be a long one anyway.

My mil is a remarkable person in many ways. Professionally very successful, incredibly generous with both her money and her time, does tons for other people and she is very appreciated in her community. Except for close family everyone seems to love her and admire her. Her close family though (ie siblings, husband and her son (my dh)) find her overbearing, over involved and over dominating. I did too when I first met her but then she started treating me differently. More respectfully and less pushy. We got along reasonably well and I used to enjoy her company. Till this year.

I don't know how to put it without sounding crazy but I feel like she's trying to take over my kids, primarily my older daughter. DD is 8 and loves all her grand parents, which I'm very happy about. However, I feel since last year she's starting to obsessively try to involve herself in dd's life when she's here. (She lives abroad and comes to visit once or twice a year for about a month..no problem with that, I don't mind). She follows her around, (including the toilet, which DD loves because she dislikes being on her own anywhere), keeps taking DD on "dates", accompanies me on the school run twice a day. She's even made friends with the other mums at the school gate. Nothing really terrible but I feel she's just involving herself too much. Everything that dh usually does for dd, she does when she's here. Eg dh and me alternate putting the kids to bed and when it's his turn she does it for him. (When it's my turn she asks me or DD if she can but I usually say no because I get so little time with DD otherwise). She also gets involved in all decision-making about the kids (eg about medical care, birthday parties, etc) and expects us to follow her advice. She undermines us in front of the kids. Me sometimes and subtly but dh full on and all the time. Dh gets very annoyed with her (she's also made friends with all of his friends, which I find very strange and they separately maintain contact) but at the end of the she's his mum and he's happy for the help. She basically acts like a third parent when she's here and it grates on me.

Again I know that none of this sounds too concerning and just like a loving, caring grand mum but it's just making me feel uneasy, which is what is reminding me of my cousin Rachel.

One thing I find very concerning is that she's got form in alienating her nephew and niece from her siblings. She thinks her siblings aren't fit to parent and are not making the best decisions for the kids. So she's taken them in, given them part time jobs in her company and is basically running their lives for them. The kids in question are adults now but both are ND and have special needs). I used to agree that her siblings are somewhat neglectful but I know she's got a very unhealthy relationship with her siblings (who resent her for being over involved and pushy) and now I wonder if the relationship between the kids and the parents deteriorated because of mil's meddling, mil trying to take over and acting as if she's their parent. I know I'm a good parent (well, I try to do my best) but now I worry whether in her quest to be involved in dd's life we will get pushed out as well.

I'm sorry this is getting so long and there's so much more I want to write. So many things that are making me uncomfortable but I suspect I've lost most people by now. If you are still reading, thank you. Please tell me I'm being unreasonable and ungrateful and i should give my head a wobble. I had dd2 last year and I've been kind of heart broken and feeling very guilty that I don't have as much time as I used to for DD1 so maybe that's why I'm so resentful. I don't know and I don't know what to do about it. Probably nothing because I'm paranoid for no reason but I can't stop feeling this way.

TLDR

Yeah I know and if you did it would probably sound like the ravings of a lunatic.

I really need some advice though:

TLDR: mil is over bearing and overinvolved in my dd's life and tries to parent her. I'm worried she will alienate her from me. She's taken over decision making for a niece and nephew as she thinks that her siblings were never fit to parent them and I worry she will do the same to us. Even if not her over involvement is just annoying. I didn't sign up to co-parent with her but I wonder if I'm just being paranoid and possessive and she's just doing what any loving, caring grandmother would do

There's a thread on MN for boundaries etc I wish I could remember it's name, but there's lots of wise MNers around, hopeful bump for you OP

At the least you need to get you DH on board, explain to him how you feel, point out that you've been undermined

Draw up fixed boundaries around what is helpful from your mil and what is a line for you.

I would seek support for yourself, to get some headspace and clarity, the transition to two kids can be epic and it demands so much from us mums imho.

Sorry I've not read that book, but for now just try to plan how you want this mil relationship to work and how to get dh on board

Other posters might have different ideas but that's where I'd start myself
Xx

Just a sec

You don't sound like a lunatic - have a firm conviction in your self that you can put things in place.
Xx

Mytattooisbiggerthanyours - super helpful.

It’s tricky. Having a second child unbalances things - I remember nearly throttling my sil who (v kindly) came to help when no 2 was born and suggested dd1 was transferring her attachment from me to her.
My mil overstepped boundaries quite often (imo), eg when my children were unwell and I had taken them to the dr, she would ring to say she’d consulted her own dr and he said blah blah. It gradually settled down and I learned simply to let stuff wash over me and carry on doing what dh and I thought best.
Of course your dd thinks your mil is fab - everyone loves being spoiled. If your dd was actually looked after by your mil full time they’d both feel a bit different!
Make the most of having a mil who cares and is willing to do stuff for your children, up to the point that it’s not what you and your dh want. Then say no. As long as you and dh are in agreement, you can make the decisions. I completely understand how you feel, but she really can’t take over unless you let her.

It’s only 6 paragraphs! How do you manage books?

Op, I think you need to do some boundary strengthening. It sounds like your MIL is being allowed to trample them. Have you discussed your feelings with your dh? Don’t ever forget that you are your children’s parents and your decisions take precedence over an interfering grandparent. Don’t let her strong personality intimidate you. As pp have said, she can only go as far as you let her. She can still be a wonderful grandmother, but you need to feel you’re able to keep her in check! Could you adopt a more robust approach, instead of being deferential and then fretting afterwards? Try and take control of the dynamic. It’ll be empowering!

I've read my cousin Rachel several times, and this doesn't bear any resemblance to it!

Can you limit the length of her stay? I think it's really important that you and your husband are a united front against his mother, given her lack of boundaries. I think you'll find she's the one keeping in touch with his friends rather than the other way around.

Thank you for your reply and for reading my word salad. I feel constantly constantly conflicted between trying to be polite, tolerant and respectful and insisting on my boundaries. Also, because she is clearly very bright and always talks with an air of confidence I second guess myself and give in to her.

Eg. DD2 was ill. Id already been to a n e and seen the gp that week about it, DD2 already had a diagnosis and was on antibiotics but because as expected a few days later she was still very ill mil insisted I take her to the GP. I knew there was no need but because mil insisted, dh insisted and she made me feel so worried and guilty that I went anyway. As expected gp was not happy with me.

Or we saw a specialist for DD2 and she asked to come with me to the appointment. I didn't want her to but didn't find a good reason to say no. And it was very helpful having her there and help with DD. But she also tris to monopolise the conversation, undermines my questions and then wanted me to share the specialist's number with her so she could keep in touch with him (she's a doctor too). I didn't purely because I don't want her to be so involved. Why does she have to make friends with our doctors as well. She's already befriended the GP. But then I think she's just a very friendly extroverted person and what's the harm?

Or she keeps asking dd's school friend's mum for her number (which friend wants to give her as she wants her advice professionally I think) and I just don't want her to get involved so much in dd's friendships. She's in the past insisted on meeting dh's friends when he'd fallen out with them, etc. Stupid stuff but I don't want to make things awkward for DD. At the same time though I feel I don't actually have s good reason to keep her away from other adults. Other people (apart from family) are drawn to her for some reason and she thrives on that.

I feel like she gets a kick out of collecting people. It's almost as if she can only see her self worth through the eyes of others and that's why she's got this strong urge to be involved and needed in other people.

Oh I don't know. I'm rambling again.

Dh finds her annoying but at the same time craves her approval. And sooner or later she always convinces him that she's right. We also have our own issues and don't get along very well at the moment.

Haha possibly. It's just being suspicious of someone that everyone loves except the person who was in a similar relationship before (in the book, the protagonist's uncle who was married first to Rachel and in my case mil's sister with whom she has a toxic relationship and they constantly fight over the sister's son. That could be me in a few years)

No I can't limit her stay. My parents visit for very long as well so it would be unfair. Also even she's not here she insists on calling every day and seeing and speaking to the kids. She tells dh and me over the phone or over text what to do.

So yes, she initiates contact with dh's friends, messages them, helps them out with whatever, brings presents for their kids and slowly they start reciprocating, inviting her over or sending her pics of their kids, etc. Also,dh is very helpful and resourceful so I think partially they are nice to her to please him but also they are a friendly and welcoming bunch and in our circle we usually try to be kind and hospitable to all parents. The only difference is that the other parents don't start their own friendship with the friends if that makes sense

This all sounds so petty. I just want to stop feeling this way. And I want her to stop being so involved. Ugggh.

What's triggered this thread is that dh wants to take older DD to see mil over the summer holidays for s couple of weeks. I can't join as I can't take leave so I'm feeling like once again I'm missing out on spending time with dd and getting stuck with the baby and mil is trying to spend even more time with DD eben though she's just seen her. But then again what's wrong with that and it would be selfish to keep DD from visiting her especially when I know I'm going to be busy with work. I just feel as if I'm being pushed out. It's very subtle at the moment but what if it gradually gets worse? Or am I just paranoid?

She sounds like a bulldozer! Why do you keep agreeing to do things you don't really want to do?

You're feeling uncomfortable for a reason and then second guessing yourself. If you stop second guessing yourself what would you be doing differently?

What happens when you say no to her?

Look, your body is telling you very clearly that you need to be spending more time with older dd and I would listen to that. It's in the best interests of you her and the rest of your family. Say no to MIL.

I feel so unreasonable to say no because every incident on its owj doesn't seem like a big deal and not worth making a big fuss over. It's just when I out them all together and the frequency of them and knowing mil's history that I get this uneasy feeling. Aminfindnit difficult to judge when I'm being petty and vindictive or perhaps jealous and possessive over Dd and when I'm being reasonable.

She gave jobs to her Dniece and nephew?
How is she in this position. I would be worried she will do the same for DD in the future. Rather than DD finding her own way in life. And thereby have a lot of control over her life. No one will sack her if DGM is the ?owner of the business.
I would have a proper discussion with DH and tell him your fears and your fears long term.
I would NOT want my mother being friends with all my friends. So DH probably won't back you if he accepts this.
Does she stay with you when she comes over? Does she have other DCs than DH?
First thing is to get DH onside.

@Lattelattecappucino is it the Stately homes threads?

www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/april-2023-well-we-took-you-to-stately-homes

Yes that is the current thread.

I really empathise with you. My mum recently moved to where I live without my permission or at least a conversation. Nd she is starting to do the same thing in a very unseen and hidden way. Undermine my decisions around the children, question or criticise everything I do, everything I do is negative and generally talk shit when I’m not around. The only thing to do is have boundaries and I know it sounds odd, but I ooze ultra confidence around her and have started questioning stuff that she says - oh why do you say that, I’m not sure I agree or that’s one way of seeing if I suppose. It is about boundaries and it’s also about emotional control. Sorry this is something that you are dealing with. My mum is old and gnarly so it’s different. You need your OH on board with this and actually I would say no to your daughter going, or reduce the amount of time proposed - put boundaries in. Awful to have such a dominant character in YOUR life.

She sounds dementing! But you can start being firmer. How can she tell you what to do? If she is giving you unwanted advice via text, start saying "it's ok, we are dealing with ourselves". Stop telling her some much about what is going on in your daily lives so she can't constantly offer her opinion. Pull back from her. She won't like it and your DH has to do the same - would he be on board with this? Set a limit on how often she gets to Face Time your family, say when it is convenient for you and stick to that.

Can you describe what she’s like when you say no to her? You’ve given a couple of examples of saying no - did she accept this first time or does it turn into a big debate?

Daily calls and texts messages are too much, and her intrusion into your social circle is also suffocating.

In your OP you said this has gotten worse lately, can you think what changed? Is it as your daughter has gotten older?

She’s very controlling and overbearing and it’s hard to say no to someone when they present it as wanting to help or having expertise you don’t. Then you’re forced into looking churlish or petty if you say no. But it sounds like she knows exactly what she’s doing and does like to dominate her family to the extent she wants to be involved even in friendships. I find that very overwhelming. It’s interesting that your husband has such a strong reaction to her but still craves her approval. If she was really just all about being involved and supportive he wouldn’t feel that way.

It sounds to me like she sees herself very much as the matriarch - I feel really sorry for your husband as she sounds like she is a destroyer of self esteem and boundaries.

You've brought back some memories from when my DCs were young. Not the same circumstances but a similar level of interference / acting like a parent (even sometimes referring to herself and FIL as 'mum' or 'dad' to the children by mistake) / over-ruling our decisions when we weren't around etc.

I stood my ground. Let it wash over me as much as I was able. Stopped telling them about things we especially didn't want interference in.

DCs are adults now and have all confided they found MIL over-bearing when young, knew what she was like, and love her loads but still find her over-bearing and interfering, so they don't tell her about important stuff unless they need to.

If you have a good relationship with your children, and stand your ground with MIL (and when age-appropriate, tell the children why there is a tension, or what frustrates you) I think you'll be OK.

Interesting.
My Mil sounds similar, I'm a bit further on then you - my dds are 18 &16, then the other grandchildren are 17 & 15 and 14 & 12.
I can't remember all the details but my spidery senses started tingling years ago (I should reread my threads from 2004) and I have basically shielded my kids.
The relationship between my mil and the 17 year old has evolved to not be healthy. That GD phones her every day, uses the contact to guilt granny and defy parents (Disney dad & Munchausen mum) there's basically a three way split with a now not very nice kid at the centre. Mil is also getting older and is quietly regretting what she wished for.

A few examples...
Made DH responsible for contact that might have been seen as mum stuff - birthdays, mother's day Christmas. The day to day calls.
Limit what you share, stick to weather. Don't always be available, can't talk, deflect, here's a picture of the cat, that will do today.
I discouraged 'private' contact between granny & the kids, no whispered phone calls, no private messaging, that's how she managed to get under the skin of the other GD.
Insist on 'fairness' not necessarily the same but equal. Mil played favourites, so a ton of stuff for a 4 year old nothing for the 2 year old because she didn't need it. The thing is the 4 year old did notice this and it started to set up weird sibling dynamics so I crushed that divide & rule and it applied to time as well as stuff.
Difficult with your age gap but really push siblings being together, read with your older daughter while baby sits in. Baby comes to watch swimming lessons. Lots of positive parenting between the two siblings 'baby loves hearing you read' talk about the older child alot, positively, when they were tiny.
You need to strengthen the sibling bond and the summer holidays are perfect for that. So sorry no lengthy trip away.
It's been interesting revisiting this, I have no regrets about not strengthening the mil bond.

I think saying no to the two week trip is problematic. You don't own your DD and shouldn't have the ultimate say over what she does. However, I do see your concerns. I'd suggest to DH that the trip is postponed until you can all go as a family and then make sure you have planned activities to do with DD whilst you're all there. Alternatively, find something that DD needs to do here over the Summer which conflicts with the dates. Ultimately, though, you may not be able to prevent the trip without major fallout, so it depends if you're prepared to take that on.

Don't forget though that it is only two weeks out of 52. You're DD's mum - MIL can only push you out if you let her. Maintain your boundaries - only communicate when and how you see fit, no private communication between DD and MIL - that isn't appropriate at age 8. When MIL is here, at the start of her visit, let her know which day it is ok for her to come with you to school drop off and pick up and that you'd like to do the rest yourself as it's important time for you to chat to DD around your work commitments. She won't like it but it's your call.

@SandTigerSharkFart

Yep I think that's the one

There's seemingly a few potatentially narcissistic mil traits from what the op @MotherOfAllNameChanges15 has said

....on another note, I'd recommend the Sarah Ockwell Smith second baby book to the op- it's not about in laws or boundaries but for me it has been cheap therapy as the mum guilt is real, you try and split yourself in two meeting the needs of the small people and you feel like youcant do right for wrong, ime.

You don't sound like a lunatic - please join the Stately Homes threads!