Controlling men and women: I want to hear from you!

[Chevybaby]

The following query pivots on people who control their spouses/SAs being aware that they do so....

Why do you do it? How does it make you feel? How does it feel when you don't have enough control over your partner? How do you think your behaviour impacts on your partner's well being? Do you care? Do you think it's normal? So many questions!

For context I am just out of my 3rd and final relationship with a controlling man. I learned how to enable and endure this style of behaviour from my lovely mother who herself was in a relationship with a very controlling man (my father) her whole adult life.

My dad is a wonderful and kind and thoughtful dad, really brilliant. If you met him you'd love him. Why he treats my mother like he does is such a mystery to me. My mum seems to think it's conscious behaviour, I assumed it was unconscious. Any insight you can give would be very welcome!

I absolutely wouldn’t describe myself as ‘controlling’, but I am a non-nonsense character who has firm boundaries, speaks their mind, says what they mean, means what they say and expects the same of others. Over the years, I have learned that I do need a partner who is strong enough & man enough to stand up to me. Fortunately, DP is exactly that and, although we don’t always agree about everything (to put it mildly) the relationship works well.

From my past relationships I have developed enough self-awareness to know that if I were in a relationship with a meek, people-pleasing, conflict-averse doormat, it’s possible that unhealthy dynamics could develop which is obviously the last thing I would want.

@Chevybaby you might find Pat Craven's Living with the Dominator quite enlightening. There are explanations as to the thinking behind the behaviours.

Stacey Dooley also did a documentary on DV in Russia.

She asked prolific batterer what he felt before/while battering and he said; righteous.

When you have certain values and entitlement; you really do think your partner is doing you wrong, doing you an injustice when they don't do what you think they should be doing/don't act how you think they should act.

These men don't stop to think, and ultimately don't care, if any of it is fair or particularly reasonable. They have entitlement based on values, they want what they want, they feel entitled to want what they want, and their partner not falling in line with it, is to them, truly an offence against them. The offence against them justifies their rage etc. They truly believe their partner is in the wrong abd they're in the right.

Inconvenient things like other people not agreeing - which hadn't really happened til recent times anyway - is minor and can he dismissed/side lined as PC Ness, crazy feminism, modern nonsense, moral inferiority etc etc. They'll hide it to avoid any clash that night cause unpleasant consequences for them. They'll minimise and justify it. And a big part of their MO is to head fuck the recipients so they think it's normal, he's justified etc etc.

They must have the little tyranny/dictatorship in their household and they'll do anything they have to to get it, maintain it, and create a mindset/philosophy in the household that keeps all that intact.

Who knows, really, especially as everyone probably has different reasons.

Intuitively, based on my own experience: My dad felt inadequate (for various reasons to do with the social aspirations of his generation), so to big himself up it made him feel better to throw his weight around at home. But then the sensitive side of him was aware at some deep level that behaving that way alienated us, and this undermined his confidence (not feeling securely loved)... and so it went on, in a vicious circle.

My first husband was afraid of life generally and needed to exert control wherever he could, so that he had more sense of power. I was the easy target at home, as I had learned from an early age to be compliant. But again, his strategy was doomed to failure because at the back of his mind he must have known I'd realise one day there must be more to life than being treated like shit. So that made him scared of losing me, which made him undermine me all the more.

Just two examples, and of course I can't speak on their behalf...

No one who's actually controlling in the abusive sense is going to respond to this, because they don't believe they're doing anything wrong, so they tend to reject notions of being "controlling" or "abusive". They're not particularly self aware.

Lundy Bancroft's book "Why Does He Do That" does a good job of answering a lot of those questions, as does The Freedom Programme. Both of which I'd recommend.

Abusive behaviour definitely stems from deeply internalised views and values, so in their minds there is always a justification for what they do, no matter how objectively awful it is, because it's aligned with their values. They're incredibly self-entitled, and so usually perceive that it's morally justified to do whatever it takes to have their own needs and desires met.

For example, my ex once threatened me with a weapon when he wanted to read my social media messages and I initially said no. The next morning, he acknowledged that things had gotten out of hand, however, he felt that it was my fault for not just showing him the messages right away. This completely alleviated him of any guilt. He felt entitled to read those messages, and so it was wrong and disrespectful of me to say no. He completely believed that I was objectively the one in the wrong, and that he simply did what he needed to do.

@Alcemeg bang on about being terrified of life in my experience. I've been with a couple of controlling men and both were so terrified of life, paranoid everyone was out to get them (take me away), I genuinely think thought he was protecting what was his (throw in some misogyny there too of course).

I also think they were both v calculating and always thinking who had the power. Both presumed I was also acting that way e..g me saying I was going out for the evening was me "trying to show him I didn't need him" rather than just wanting to just see my friends

I can be controlling, I suffer from generalised anxiety disorder. The control is a way to relieve my anxiety, I'm not being controlling because I want to make that person feel bad or make their life hard. Actually, when I think about my behaviour, I am riddled with guilt, and it keeps me awake at night. The anxiety I suffer with turns me into a person that I hate deeply. I am working on my anxiety, though

I learned how to enable and endure this style of behaviour from my lovely mother who herself was in a relationship with a very controlling man (my father) her whole adult life.

This is interesting OP, because you also learned from your dad that men are controllers. I wonder why you just mentioned your mum?

I don't remotely blame my mother for my father's bad treatment of her in case that's what this post suggests. It's really just because I am myself a mother now and would like to break this cycle so that my DD doesn't in the future also find herself serially dating controlling men. In being hyper analytical of my mum's behaviour (which I appreciate might seem outwardly like a misdirection of attention) I'm hoping to really work on mine! Because there is definitely something I must be doing to invite it in and then enable it otherwise it wouldn't keep happening! I have some friends that have only ever had really balanced mutually supportive and encouraging relationships and I would love to know why it's so different for them.

My dad is a wonderful and kind and thoughtful dad, really brilliant. If you met him you'd love him. Why he treats my mother like he does is such a mystery to me. My mum seems to think it's conscious behaviour, I assumed it was unconscious.
Sorry to keep quoting OP 😁 You also say this in your op and go on to defend your dad in later posts. I think it is very natural for women to protect men and at the same time defer to them, especially their loved ones. You see on here, someone will post about their awful partner and at least half of responses will be women desperately trying to excuse the behaviour (and blame the OP) of a man they have never met. Its internalised misogy and its hard to get out of that mindset. I think really unpicking all of this would really benefit your dd and be the best way of stopping her repeating the pattern.
Your mum was a victim of abuse for years, controlling is abusing. You have being a victim of abuse. Its too easy to say, im like this because my mum was. At the same time your father taught you that men are entitled to control the women they love. You say yourself hes wonderful, couldn't have been a better dad and even that you assumed it was unconcious behaviour. He taught you some awful lessons though. Don't be afraid of looking into it all and being angry with him. My father was not a very good husband and I have no qualms about telling him this when he even says something mildly negative about my mum who was just doing her best. He isn't the man I look up to anymore and hasn't been since I was a teenager because I can see how flawed he is.
The reason I am who I am now, with the man I chose to start my family with, is because I saw and accepted just how flawed he was at a young age and didn't want that for my children.
Don't know if I'm making sense but your upbringing sounds similar to mine. It's hard work figuring it all out.

@yellowsmileyface I think describes it well. Someone who is controlling and abusive would not come on this thread because he/she would have reasons that, in their own minds, completely justify the behaviour. It is a type of disordered thinking.

So, a common one we see on here and I have seen in real life with friends/ family members is insecurity. The controlling person is insecure and believes that their fears and concerns are justified and understandable and that asking their partner to accommodate that is reasonable eg not going out, calling/messaging constantly, wearing certain clothes, not talking to certain people etc etc. This abuser then spends a lot of time being very resentful if the partner refuses and thinks their silent treatment/anger/retaliation are completely reasonable.

I really appreciate your insight and advice here @pillsthrillsandbellyache thanks very much

You're right, I've got a lot of unpacking to do. I think I'm still kind of reeling from the shock of finding out the extent of his behaviour this whole time (which she's only telling me now because much of it matches her own experiences and I had literally no idea). Family friends once jokingly described mum as the rottweiler and dad as the labrador in that she presented as this super confident, feminist, direct, outspoken person* and him as the easy going friendly counterpart. Meanwhile he's quietly and consistently sabotaging and undermining her at every level.

I find it so hard to reconcile any of the behaviour with the person i thought i knew. I'm going to put the work in though, time to confront some difficult truths...blast open the internalised misogyny...stop making excuses for the warped thinking and actions of angry men... not enough hours in the week!

*also how I present which feels laughable right now

not enough hours in the week!

It's a life long commitment 😂 it's shit, stirs up feelings that are hard to deal with but it's worth it for our kids not to relationship the cycle. Internalised misogyny is a tough one to work through, it's bloody bred into us. My mother, despite living with my father for 40 years STILL pulls a face when I mention im going out or a weekend away with mates... "oh is * ok with you doing that? Don't be getting in a state blah blah" blows my mind.
Good luck and your daughter is very lucky to have you as her mum.