Been together nearly five years - I want to get married, he doesn't...

[S2P78]

Hello,
Please be gentle with me as I'm feeling very fragile.
I've been with my lovely partner for nearly five years. We've had ups and downs, but we have a happy and good relationship - most of the time.
I knew he didn't want children, and as I was 40 when we met (I'm now nearly 45) I was ok with this. But now I think I know that he doesn't want to get married either, and this is really hurting me.
In the past two years the topic has come up (mainly on holiday as this is when we tend to have relationship/future chats - started by me) every four months or so. At first he said he was worried he couldn't meet my needs (he has a touch of ASD and I am quite an emotional person) but we worked through this and now he says he doesn't feel that way. Now he says he doesn't see why we need to change anything, he's fearful it would end things as so many people get married then seem to split soon after as it changes things, he feels pressured and would 'lose control' if he proposed (as he doesn't want a wedding, etc, although I've never wanted this either - just to have a husband and the full commitment as I don't have family otherwise).
Anyway, I feel really, deeply sad about this as I completely love him, and i don't doubt he loves me. But my body is really reacting to his downbeat talk and I'm feeling rejected or not wanted enough or something.
We live together in my house and he's fine talking about future travel together/our lives together etc but the marriage thing is a major sticking point as I feel sad he doesn't want that.
This conversation has gone round in circles and it's around his fears, basically, but the downbeat tone of these chats grinds me down.
What to do? We have a therapy session booked in but I feel this isn't going away and only makes me feel worse as time goes on.
He says I'm not hearing him fully and he is two feet in committed.
I also feel silly wanting marriage - but I just do. Or not even the marriage - just for him to want me as his wife rather than a partner he lives with indefinitely.

OP I think you are missing your Mum. Marrying your DP won't make that ache you have for your Mum, to feel you belong, go away. I think you need to have therapy on your own to cope with your bereavement especially as your Dad is I'll too. It took me years to come to terms with the death of both of my parents, as an adult too. You own your own home and you know in reality you are better off not marrying provided he is paying towards food, bills and paying you a rent payment. You can't make someone want to marry you, they either do or they don't. I think you know deep down he doesn't want to be fully committed to you. You need to decide if the constant deep down feeling of rejection you feel is making you so unhappy you might be better without this man. As long as you are giving all of yourself to him and only returning part of himself to you it will make you feel sad and cheated. It may feel scary but I'm sure you could find someone who would want to marry you and make you feel cherished if you have the courage to look for them. If you want marriage find someone who wants the same.

@DivorcedAndDelighted that podcast is like it's about him! Thank you so much. You are spot on in what you say and made me feel heard and understood in my post, too. We will see what the therapy brings up. I really don't doubt he loves me very much, and it's about both our issues and views around marriage. He has a lot of fear and tends to shut down, whereas I wear my heart openly and seek connection. Maybe we're just incompatible, but also I think because we do love each other so much, there's a chance to grow and understand if we work at it. You are right that he needs to 'understand' things before he's on board. Marriage is the ultimate symbol of togetherness for me.

It did for us - that’s your opinion based on your own experiences. It took us 11 years to get married and it definitely felt different afterwards.

‘He’s just not that into you’.

if he was, he would go along with marriage, just to keep you happy, even if it meant zilch to him. But he won’t.

I don't think that's fair. Some people do not want to get married. It doesn't mean they are any less committed to the relationship or love their partner any less. And I think pressuring or guilting somebody into it if it's not something they want - or implying it means they are committed - is very unfair and will probably damage the relationship.

If OP is happy in all other respects with the relationship, and actually marrying would financially disadvantage her, then it might be better as some posters have said for her to examine this rigidity about needing to be married. The answer can be her coming to terms with not marrying rather than trying to persuade her partner into it. Without children in the mix there is no real need for it. Next of kin stuff and wills etc can be sorted out without it.

It does sound OP like you're projecting a lot of emotional upset onto this issue which really isn't related to your relationship and I think talking it all through with a therapist together as you've suggested. They should be able to help you explore and maybe move past this need you feel to be married. In the end is doesn't provide any more security, in fact in your situation would give you less in many ways. Your emotional security should be attached to the connection and care in the relationship, not to a legal document.

Your partner sounds lovely and it would be a shame for this to drive you apart when really, what practical difference would it make to your lives? Except putting your financial security in jeopardy actually! Whereas if you push him into this, I think it could really spoil the relationship you have which sounds absolutely fine how it is at the moment.

@NotAllStaceys that's a really kind and considered response and it's helped a lot. Thank you. I am from a VERY traditional family background and the only question my dad ever asks me is when I'm getting married. My brother says we're 'living in sin' - so you get the gist! I feel it's so in-built in me that it's 'what you do' - but then again don't NEED it, really. I think - maybe - I can move past all this if it means I don't think he's not wanting to marry because of a lack of commitment. I think it's so associated with that, and I need to work out if there is an element of truth for us in that (but he absolutely insists he is fully committed and I think would marry eventually - just don't want him to do that if he doesn't want to really!) The therapy will hopefully help. Thanks again.

@NotAllStaceys He is a gentle, kind, loyal guy who wants to work on the relationship. He just struggles with understanding himself and why he's never wanted marriage or kids. So therapy should help him too. His family are behind much of his beliefs - his dad walked out when he was 15 and he's seen a lot of his friends get divorced. He's very scared it might ruin things, I think.

I feel your pain OP. I was with a lovely guy for 6/7 years during which time numerous friends got together and married. We agreed about not wanting children and had the same values and interests. We were very happy. We were forever getting asked about when we would get married and he would always dodge the question and either say he didn't need a piece of paper to be committed or that he wasn't ready yet.

After a few years of watching other couples get married and batting off questions from well meaning friends, I started to lose confidence in myself and the relationship. Once it's in your head that feeling of not being worth marrying, it's difficult to get it out again. I started to mentally detach from the relationship which eventually led to us splitting up.

Within a couple of years he was both married and a father.

@S2P78 that makes so much sense, if you've been raised with the idea that a relationship is not committed unless you are married, that this is the only way, and then add to that the insecurities you described because of what's happened in your family and still (!) family members pressuring you about this, it makes perfect sense then that you'd feel marriage is security. That you need it in some way to "prove" his commitment to you, or to satisfy other people, or to convince yourself that you can feel safe and secure.

I think it shines out of your posts how much you both care for each other so there will be a way forward if you both want it and therapy to examine both of your views and feelings about it is a great idea. Do let the therapist know he suspects he is on the spectrum if he's comfortable with that - they will need to factor that in, in that talking about his feelings with strangers will likely be even more uncomfortable for him than for most people (I am an austic woman so just from my own experience). But autistic people though they find it hard to express their feelings sometimes in the way others can understand, are often the most empathetic and loyal people you can find. And the fact he's willing to go to therapy (an idea he likely hates!) indicates that he loves you and the relationship is very important to him.

I hope you can find an open environment to help you both explore the reasons behind your feelings and understand each other's frame of reference, but definitely don't assume he loves or cares about you any less or is less committed because he doesn't want marriage. If you focus on what marriage actually means in reality in your situation, taking Hollywood and novels and cultural expectations out of it, why do you need it? You're not planning children, you are actually the more financial secure. This seems to me about you needing to feel secure emotionally and I hope you can explore ways together to achieve that without one person ending up unhappy or feeling forced into something they do not want; you sound very well matched and it would be a shame.

I hope it all works out for you.

Also, he's not wrong about this: it often does!

If everything is good now, then why can't it just stay how it is?

@S2P78 there's no such thing as 'a touch of ASD'.

I agree.

Marriage goes not cement a relationship. So many people get divorced.

You're not in the wrong to feel how you do, but neither is he.

Marriage definitely doesn't always equal commitment.

There's no such thing as 'a touch of ASD' - that's like saying you're 'a little bit pregnant'. You either are, or you aren't. His ASD is a red herring, anyway, not relevant to your situation.

This

I'll admit that when a read the "touch of ASD" thing I flinched. As an autistic woman raising two autistic kids. No "touch" about it.

But give the OP a break. She asked for relationship advice, about attitudes to marriage. I took it from her comment that she means he seems to have some potential ASD traits but isn't diagnosed.

I have a problem with that when people say such things but what they mean is that someone is unpleasant, rude, inconsiderate, uncaring, insensitive, selfish etc because that just shows they know nothing about ASD at all. Someone marries someone abusive and then someone comes along and says "maybe they have ASD". 🤦🏻‍♀️😆

The OP here has described a kind, sensitive, introverted, loyal, caring man who sometimes has difficulty verbalising his feelings and doesn't necessarily conform to societal expectations just because "it's what other people do so you should" and isn't out to take advantage of anybody (otherwise he'd marry her in a heartbeat for financial gain!), rather has integrity and doesn't want marriage because to him it doesn't seem logical that love and a financial contract are the same thing. Frankly, I agree with him and from OP's description he sounds thoroughly decent and a lot like lots of the autistic adults I know. Open to discussion and listening and compromise where possible but not open to thing he sees as not rational but also caring about his partner and prepared to make himself quite uncomfortable (e.g. therapy) to try to make it work. And likely to withdraw and react very badly to being pressured.

I don't think anything the OP has said here is offensive and picking at the exact language used it a bit OTT in my view and not particularly helpful. Maybe she doesn't know much about it. But she's not said anything harsh or ableist or unkind and this wasn't the point of the thread.

@NotAllStaceys Just to say thank you for your messages - they really helped and you're absolutely right about it being a need for emotional security my side/'proving' his commitmente, etc, and his personality/how he feels. We've had some chats and things feel much better. Anyway, big thank you!

That's so great OP, that you were able to both express how you feel and understand each other's feelings about it better. 😊

I hear you, OP. You're looking around at your life and you want an 'anchor' for want of a better term as you're constantly aware of your Mum's condition and to all intents and purposes, she's not there for you.

The way I feel about it, if your partner actually made you feel as if he was in it for life, you wouldn't give a hoot about being married or not because you'd know, deep down and for certain, that he wasn't going anywhere. You don't feel that way so you're hankering for marriage even though logically you know that being married doesn't necessarily equal permanence.

Do you have friends that you see, spend time with? I think that spending less time with your partner would be a very good thing. Not only does absence make the heart grow fonder but it may just reduce your feelings of needing to belong to him and make you realise that actually, you're safe and secure in your own head/heart, regardless of what happens with partner. If he stays, fine, if not, it's not the end of the world.

I can read your desperation - and I don't mean that you are desperate, not at all - just that you want something that should be something that both of you would want - and he doesn't. It automatically puts him in the driving seat as nothing has changed for him. I think he's a bit of a twat actually and you can do a lot better.

@S2P78 how are you doing? Wondering if/how your therapy session went, and if either or both of you reached a place you could feel better in the marriage or no marriage space?

What's more worrying is why you've spent 5 years with someone who didn't want what you wanted. You already know the answer to all this, you just don't like it. Why are you in denial?

You can't force someone into marrying you, but if you stay with him as things are you will remain unhappy. So your only solution is to finish things, easier said than done, but he is not the right one for you.

@GirlAnachro Thanks for asking! Good, thank you. He gave me a ring and 'proposed' in September last year, but said he's not bothered about marriage, just wants to be with me, and so to take the ring as a sign of his commitment and that he wants to do whatever it takes to make me happy. It was very 'him', understated and genuine. Since then, the feelings about wanting to get married have completely vanished as really, as many others have pointed out, it was about security - it was never really about the marriage. It was about feeling that 'stage' of the relationship was there, and it feels exactly right for us so we've called it our 'commitment ring' and if we want to get married in time, we will. But for now, we're very happy. I have never been a girl who's dreamed of a wedding or a ring - but I have always wanted a really genuine, committed relationship with someone, which I feel I've got :)

I should add that he is very comfortable getting married now as we worked through quite a lot last year around his fears (which I think stem from his dad walking out when he was 15, and many of his friends getting divorced or not being married and seeming happier that way). Anyway, I actually think we're both quite 'fearful' people (me anxious, him more avoidant) but have found the ground to make our relationship secure and each other happy, with or without marriage. I actually find it almost MORE romantic that he isn't just about the marriage thing now, and just wants me. Funny how things change. I do feel secure, and that is what I've really struggled with in general in life having a lot of loss in my life.

Just want to flag up this book

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Comfortable-Uncertainty-Cultivating-Fearlessness-Compassion/dp/1590300785

It's brilliant for making the reader question their relationship with trying to create security and certainty in their lives

The writer suggests that we need to accept that life is constantly changing and that nothing is certain (ever).

Sorry to ambush thread but the discussion around marriage made me think of it.

You want different things, only you know if this is dealbreaker.

@Whatdirection thanks - looks right up my street and what I need to read!

Aww that’s brilliant news @S2P78! sounds like you’ve both done a heap of communicating, and soul searching, and both come together in the middle from either end of the extreme! I’m so glad for you that you didn’t rush and end things or push him into something that you’d always have on the back of your mind wasn’t an ‘organic’ proposal.
the commitment ring and you two both being very secure and comfortable with where you’re at now is really lovely to hear congratulations!!