Been together nearly five years - I want to get married, he doesn't...

[S2P78]

Hello,
Please be gentle with me as I'm feeling very fragile.
I've been with my lovely partner for nearly five years. We've had ups and downs, but we have a happy and good relationship - most of the time.
I knew he didn't want children, and as I was 40 when we met (I'm now nearly 45) I was ok with this. But now I think I know that he doesn't want to get married either, and this is really hurting me.
In the past two years the topic has come up (mainly on holiday as this is when we tend to have relationship/future chats - started by me) every four months or so. At first he said he was worried he couldn't meet my needs (he has a touch of ASD and I am quite an emotional person) but we worked through this and now he says he doesn't feel that way. Now he says he doesn't see why we need to change anything, he's fearful it would end things as so many people get married then seem to split soon after as it changes things, he feels pressured and would 'lose control' if he proposed (as he doesn't want a wedding, etc, although I've never wanted this either - just to have a husband and the full commitment as I don't have family otherwise).
Anyway, I feel really, deeply sad about this as I completely love him, and i don't doubt he loves me. But my body is really reacting to his downbeat talk and I'm feeling rejected or not wanted enough or something.
We live together in my house and he's fine talking about future travel together/our lives together etc but the marriage thing is a major sticking point as I feel sad he doesn't want that.
This conversation has gone round in circles and it's around his fears, basically, but the downbeat tone of these chats grinds me down.
What to do? We have a therapy session booked in but I feel this isn't going away and only makes me feel worse as time goes on.
He says I'm not hearing him fully and he is two feet in committed.
I also feel silly wanting marriage - but I just do. Or not even the marriage - just for him to want me as his wife rather than a partner he lives with indefinitely.

@ontheplayground thank you. That's actually given me a bit of a jolt because it resonated. But don't all men needing pushing to emote...? I can't even remember what previous relationships were like. It feels I've been used to it being like this for ages, and maybe he's just 'typically male'.

No, all men do not need pushing to emote. Men aren't a homogenous group with one set of traits any more than women are. He may have ASD or he might just be an avoidant/emotionally unavailable person for any number of reasons.

Neither my partner or I are bothered about getting married but I feel fully committed and secure in the relationship because he's very forthcoming with telling me how he feels about me, making future plans etc. I think the marriage issue is a red herring and it sounds like there are deeper incompatibilities here.

I'm not sure about all men needing pushing to emote - I think most will open up naturally when they feel secure with somebody? But I'm not hugely knowledgeable on this!

From the sound of it, I don't think there's anything wrong with the way he is or the way you are, but I'm not sure how compatible you are at the moment. Bear in mind I'm only basing this on one Mumsnet thread!

The counselling sounds like an excellent plan. Time to examine all of this and work out what each of you wants and why. And whether it might change.

Marriage does not cement a relationship. It really doesn't.

@ontheplayground wise words. Thank you.

The way I see it is the relationship, as it stands, is either good enough for you as it is, or it isn't. Because it won't change. So it's up to you to decide. You have the power to make a choice and stick to it. Good luck x

As a previously married person with lots of divorced friends - I can tell you - marriage does not really give you security and commitment. People in a relationship are either committed and feel it - or not.

Marriage is largely an economic arrangement, and designed for rearing kids and (historically for wealthy people) helps maintain and pass on assets.
The more recent idea of romantic marriage - is a fairly new creation. And it doesn’t work in at least 50% of cases.

As note here - IF you marry him or anyone - please protect your house and assets. Don’t be irrational and swept by emotions.

And my other comment would be - I do think you have historical trauma from your childhood and your family. Marriage won’t heal it. If you want to feel better - find a counsellor to work through it.
If you can - then I think you and him can have a happy long relationship. (End of 4 Weddings and a Funerals come to mind here…. ‘Would you consider not-marrying me for the rest of your life”…)
If you can’t work through your issues - than you will need to leave - it you’l be making you both continuously unhappy about it all.

Ask him how he feels/thinks about these,

Life insurance
Deed poll change of name
Last will and testament
Jointly owned house
Eternity ring
Power of attorney, financial and medical

None of the above require a marriage certificate.

All men do not need pushing to emote, no, but being married to on that is incapable or unwilling to do so is an incredibly lonely path OP, be careful what you wish for.

No, it isn't 'typical male'.

I understand where you're coming from. It might not make financial sense to marry him (ie he'd get half the house if you divorced) but you want to know he's committed. And that one sign of real commitment that's available to you - he doesn't want to do.

If you both didn't want marriage that's fine, but you do want that commitment, and that's understandable. It would bother me as well, and I wouldn't stick around with someone who wasn't sure they were going to stay with me.

I know not all marriages last, but at least at the point of getting married that is your intention. He won't commit to the intention, which must hurt.

Watch out for the textbook excuses too... 'it might change us' (What? Why? Presumably for better as we've shown our commitment); 'it splits people up' (rubbish; while lots of marriage end in divorce, those who live together without marriage are more likely to split); 'I don't want any fuss' (fine; register office and fish and chips after, sorted).....They are all excuses. The only reason not to get married is beacause you don't want the commitment. And that's fine, so long as you're both on the same page.

Marriage doesn't change people. It's some legal paperwork and you go back to being the same couple you were before, maybe with some nice photos and new jewellery. We got married last year after a long time together and honestly, I still forget we are married now, it's not made a jot of difference to our day to day lives.

Here's a question to consider:
If you only 2 choices - 1 where you stay with him but marriage is totally off the table or 2, be a wife to someone else, have a think about which option you would choose, and why.

I asked myself that same question and it helped me come to my decision.

You would be insane to marry as the person with the asset.
Do you really want to risk losing 50% of your house value? My friend married at 49, she wanted to feel wanted and was very like yourself but as the person who earned three times her DH salary and owned a house outright I thought she was stupid.

Did you know he didn’t wanted to get married when you committed to him?

@perfectcolourfound He has used ALL those excuses (he says reasons - it's just fear ).....and more.

@Thebigblueballoon No I didn't. He said he wanted to wait a bit that was all. Now it seems it's just something he doesn't want to do. I knew he didn't want kids though.

Marriage unfortunately does mean different things to different people.
For some it is a deep personal commitment to others it is a legal technicality.
For me it was a deep personal commitment and luckily for me DH felt the same way. The marriage did make a difference it cemented us and though nothing practical changed the promises we made meant something and made the bond feel even deeper. It wasn't nothing.

If dh had not been of that point of view, I think I would have tried to stay with him but I think it would have felt hollow and maybe eroded away my trust and faith in the depth of his feeling.
If it could have worked out, it would have been because I could have come to accept my own detachment. Being unable to make the commitment I wanted would have left me putting the emotional brakes on in myself. Maybe I could have adapted my love for him to that but I'm not sure.

But I know a number of people for whom marriage really doesn't feel important at all, or even is a political statement to oppose it.

So my speculations on how your situation would have played out of I was in your shoes are just one angle.

The hard part is there are no definite answers to your dilemma, only what if's, and only time will really give you the answers which way you jump is the best of a bad choice.

You certainly don't want s reluctant groom, so it's reconcile to no marriage if you can do that and be happy, or accept you are too far apart on a crucial issue and plan the end.

Horrible juncture to find yourself at. 💐

I am not sure I agree. There's no guarantee that OP will meet another person and be a wife. I suppose the position really is that if she stays where she is it's unlikely to ever happen.

From the way you talk about it, you seem to have romanticised marriage a bit, without considering the practical implications. You want to be married, but why? What extra commitment can it give you in your circumstance?

Have you considered having a civil partnership in instead?
it would sort out the legal position with regard to things like inheritance tax, if you are likely to be liable for it.
You could also investigate how to protect your assets in the event of a split.

‘He’s just not that into you’.

if he was, he would go along with marriage, just to keep you happy, even if it meant zilch to him. But he won’t.

Doesnt really matter why, but tbh it’s a poor lookout. You’re quite a catch, you are providing him with a home, but he wants to keep his ? What? Independence? Aka options open. Your body knows this, even if your mind doesn’t want to accept it.

I think you would be better talking to someone about how to value yourself, and how to learn to love your own company. Often that aura of self esteem is very attractive.

💐

I was in the same situation as you when I was 30...I'd been with my then boyfriend 5 years and we were living together. I'd always made it clear that I wanted to be married, he'd always said he didn't believe in marriage. The year I turned 30 it was a leap year and I proposed to him, we agreed to get married and did so 6 months later. But I never felt completely happy or secure, I always felt like - and it didn't help that he used to say this to friends as a 'joke' - that he'd only married me to 'shut me up about it'. He also refused to buy me an engagement ring - it was 'a waste of money' and refused to wear a wedding ring...we also didn't have a honeymoon. His behaviour on the actual wedding day was shit as well, he was more interested in friends and actually wandered off with them to the reception venue, leaving me behind at the registry office. I was stood outside like an idiot on my own for 10 minutes, waiting to see if he realised and came back...he didn't I walked into my wedding reception on my own. I realised during that walk that I'd made a massive mistake...

Our marriage lasted 10 years, he was a crap husband and I had a serious health issue that he was totally unsupportive with...that was the last straw and I left him. I met my now boyfriend a year later and we've been together nearly 14 years. I'd only get married again if my boyfriend wanted it more than I did. With my ex husband, we married when we should have split up. The relationship had come to a natural end.

You might find this podcast interesting - The unique relationship issues of men in IT by Dr Psych Mom. She talks about how working in this field attracts and suits logical people but the conversational skills can dwindle and the other partner may need to put more work into drawing that out of them. Also that men or women of this type can have many fine qualities but don't criticise them for not being romantic when their stability was part of what attracted you to them. She also says that men in this field tend to be great to work with in therapy, eg good at learning to be more romantic, for example, once they understand why it is important to their partner.
I understand you valuing marriage and I think when people say that it's irrelevant, they don't appreciate what it means to you. Personally I'm divorced but I still value marriage deeply as an institution and an ideal, and I hope that one day I'll marry again. However, it would be against my financial interest to do so and there are various pragmatic reasons against it. But still I hope that it happens, because as a core value for me, the importance of marriage goes beyond cost and convenience. Maybe it's similar for you?
Before you give up on the idea of marriage, I think he needs to understand and try to empathise with your desire for marriage, and you need to show him (perhaps through reflective listening, for example) that you truly understand how he feels too. It's great that you have counselling booked. If you do end up calling it a day because of genuinely incompatible values, so be it. But it would be a shame if lack of understanding caused either of you to feel unfulfilled or unheard, or the pair of you to split.

‘He’s just not that into you’.

if he was, he would go along with marriage, just to keep you happy, even if it meant zilch to him. But he won’t.

Ultimately, it comes down to this. He feels fear. But is he afraid to lose you? Which one does he fear more - you get an idea of where he prioritises your feelings.

What about the practicalities of commitment? If he’s living in your house, is he paying rent? Or is he saving his money while you pay the mortgage? That would be a red flag for me.

Therapy session is a great plan. If you have a third person trying to draw out each person’s emotions, you can hopefully have a more honest conversation, and knowledge then empowers you. You are stuck right now. There’s no right answer until you figure out if either of you wants to and is prepared to willingly bridge the gap.