Just discovered affair

[Vaguelyinterested]

Been married 21 years, picked up his phone and saw what is clearly an affair spanning a number of years that is much more than just physical. Neither of us believe in divorce as we are Jewish. He’s been trying to convince me to put it behind us, begging me to not tell anyone. I know this woman and could make life very difficult for her and it’s all that’s on my mind at the moment. I want her to hurt the way I am. I don’t even think I have a question here I’m just blindsided

Speak to your Rabbi.

I understand that you may have spiritual concerns about divorce (regardless of the ability to seek it should you wish), however I would highlight that your husband has breached his vows to you. He hasn't honoured you faithfully and it's not a one-time mistake - he's been unfaithful for a long time. He's breached his contract and chosen to break his spiritual bond with you.

I'm not saying this to urge you to seek a divorce - merely to highlight that spiritual concerns about divorce also extend to the concept of faithfulness and honesty.

Finding out about a long term affair must have been very hard Op, a casual fling would be hard enough but the fact he's been living a double life for years must have been a shock. Even if you don't want to divorce him because of your faith, how will you be able to trust him knowing what he's done? More than anything I couldn't stomach his need for your silence so he can go on pretending to be a respectable married man, I'd have no part in that, he should be ashamed

My mum's friend divorced her husband for infidelity, he is a rabbi...

Tell everyone!

Based on this, was your plan to then just be friends ?

I would tell everyone including the rabbi and they can suck on that.

You say you don’t agree with divorce but do you agree with being separated?

I do understand how difficult it is when your religion frowns upon divorce.
Unfortunately, women tend to get judged for divorcing even though it’s the man who’s had an affair.

You don’t need to make any decisions now.
Take your time and work through it in your own head first.

I would be threatening him with telling everyone if he doesn’t end it now.

No I didn’t plan to be her friend. We know the same people, we don’t move in the same circles. To those who think because Judaism has grounds for divorce I’m ok with the idea of it, it’s not always that simple, especially when someone is asking your forgiveness and to repair it. To the person who said he may be doing this to save face and reputation, yes I see the reality of that. But I feel the same. I suppose it’s deeply ingrained. But if he loves someone else, and I believe he does, should I just let him go. I wouldn’t want to break his life apart, I still care about him. I’m angry at the moment but I’m facing reality. I’m going to have a chat with him tonight about how to best seperate so he can pursue the life he wants. All I’ll ask is he doesn’t shame me in that and waits a period of time. Perhaps I can find true happiness also. It is correct that despite me wanting to just be with this one person for life, the future will be bleak if I don’t face reality.

Didn’t know Jewish people ‘couldn’t divorce’ despite being a secular Jew, so I googled it.

Even religious Jews can divorce if both parties agree to it. I would just tell him to grant you a divorce or his affair will be the talk of the synagogue.

I know that we should have worked through our issues years ago, but he’s selfish to move on and lie to me this way, and ignore all my attempts for years to make things better because he already wanted someone else. I don’t need that kind of selfish in my life

My Jewish grandparents divorced in the 1950s - my grandmother initiates it due to my grandfather's affairs. She remarried another Jewish man about 5 years later. They went to temple, kept kosher, had many friends in the community. If you don't want to get divorced that's one thing but it's not right to blame the Jewish religion for that. I feel very bad for you and do hope you find peace in the way that's best for you and your family.

@Vaguelyinterested , it’s absolutely your right to believe what you believe and make decisions for yourself based on those tenets and beliefs, and how what you decide to do affects your standing and your life going forwards within your religious community. It doesn’t matter what anyone from the outside thinks or believes you should or shouldn’t do, they don’t necessarily have your faith and beliefs and don’t have to live in the community you live in, or live with any of the fallout or consequences of your future decisions: you do.

However, it’s clear from your words here, that to say that your marriage has been in trouble for a long time is probably the understatement of the year. So you have to decide what you want going forward. He needs to decide what he wants going forward. More than that, he needs to take full responsibility for his behaviour. He needs to acknowledge the fact that he can’t cherry-pick the right and wrong from his faith, or even from basic morality in the secular world. He can’t cherry-pick which sacred vows he has to keep and which ones he can flout, whilst at the same time, expecting you to ignore his violations of the principles of his faith, and keep to every part of it yourself and keep every sacred vow you ever made to him. It is wholly unpalatable and unjust. So, what to do?

You can stay married with a few options:

1. you agree to keep up appearances and live together but lead separate lives with discretion to avoid a scandal. If you’d fallen out of love and didn’t care, and accepted that the marriage was over in all but name, you’d probably be able to do that. However, you say you love him and your faith is hugely important, so he would break your heart on a daily basis and you’d have to watch him violate his faith on a daily basis too and suck up the whole toxic lot of it. That would be no life whatsoever for anyone, and what’s left of your marriage and your mental health would be destroyed anyway.

2. You stay married but he moves out on some kind of work pretext, and you both lead separate lives as above.

3. you stay together and start the enormously hard and very long journey towards rebuilding this last gasp marriage. It would take both of you, completely committed to each other, to the marriage and the recovery process to even consider starting this. Until he gives this woman up completely, goes non-contact for good, devotes himself to you and his marriage, and does everything he can to make you feel safe again, there is no point trying. Absolutely no point. All the Affair Recovery website advice is good, but both parties have to really, really want it to work and commit to change. Acknowledging and exploring reasons behind the cheating is all his responsibility, you are not to blame for his character flaws. Your 50% part in the demise of the marriage is your responsibility however, as is his 50%. A huge amount of change is needed from both of you. Post-affair reconciliation isn’t for everyone and will not work with a serial cheat or with anyone who won’t fully give up an OW or OM. However, if you are adamant you don’t want to divorce, advice of what is necessary to reconcile and also advice to divorce, will both fall on deaf ears, so explore your options if you do decide to stay married.
   Also the OW is not responsible for his choice to cheat. She is, however, responsible for her part in the affair. She’s responsible for continuing her own adultery and violating any religious beliefs she has, whilst deliberately helping him to betray you and to betray his faith, and further damage somebody else’s marriage. Whilst she doesn’t ‘owe’ you anything, he does, I’m a firm believer in the fact that we all owe our family, friends and society in general, a decent human being. Neither of them are that.
   Good luck, I think staying married will be very hard for you and if I’m honest I wouldn’t recommend it after all that has happened over such a long period of time, but I understand and respect why you need to do so and there’s no judgment about your decisions from me. X

He is incredibly selfish and just proves what he thinks about you.

In time you will find someone who loves and respects you as much as you deserve.

I'm so sorry!

You've just found this out, you don't have to make any decisions right now. Do you have children? Is there anyway you can give yourself some time away to think? You need to give yourself some space to process what's happened before you decide what to do next.
No one can tell you what to should do, it's your decision. Big hug!

So don’t divorce, just tell him to leave.
He’s cheated, he’ll do it again.
Can’t see the point of living with a man like that.

I get it OP. I’m not Jewish, or any religion for that matter, but I don’t believe in divorce either. I see if as a failure and would feel ashamed, even if it were my husband doing the cheating. I’d feel like a failure because I hadn’t been able to make my marriage work.
I know logically that this is a totally unreasonable way of thinking. And there’s no way I’d ever think badly of anyone else for divorcing for whatever valid reason! It’s just how I’d feel, so I understand your dilemma. I hope you find peace with whatever decision you make and I’m sorry you’re in this awful position.

You should have divorced years ago. It’s not fair for him or you from the way you describe your relationship. The affair was bound to happen sadly.

He is begging you to give him a chance to to try again...but to try what? He's been lying to you and cheating on you, for years. He stopped trying in your marriage years ago. Why didn't he choose to do the right thing then? Why now? The difference is he's been caught and he doesn't want his reputation to be damaged. It's funny how he has morals when it comes to divorce, but none when it comes to lying to and cheating on his wife. His morals only seem to extend to believeing in things that benefit him and make him look good.

You say you don't believe in divorce.... what does that mean? Does it mean that no matter how badly someone treats you, you should stay with them because you married them? Do you think that he can treat you like rubbish, lie and cheat but you still owe him your loyalty and forgiveness?

He's been with this woman for years. I doubt he's going to give her up now, or for long. Even if he did, you'd never truly know if he had, because you now know you can't trust him. He might just find another woman to cheat with.

So, you could choose to forgive him, yes. And you could choose to cover up his cheating and pretend to everyone that everything's just fine. And he continues to conduct his affair. He has everything he wants - no divorce, no shame, no pressure from his wife, and he gets to still conduct his love life outside the home.

What do you get? Not a loving marriage. Having to lie to family and friends. Not single so not free to find someone else yourself.

My words sound harsh, but I feel for you. I think you deserve more than a husband who treats you like this and then expects your loyalty and protection, for the sake of his reputation.

You don't have to make any fast decisions. You don't have to make any promises to him. You can make a decision now and change your mind in a few weeks or months or years. Don't be rushed. Don't be pressured in to a dishonest life or one that makes you unhappy. Know your worth. Protect yourself. Your husband has been putting himself first for years.

I wish you all the best.

I'm going to assume the OP is frum, and if so I get her. There's zero problem to divorce in Jewish law, but there are societal implications.

Married for just over 20 years means they're both well established as community members, and they don't want to lose their status. Nobody likes going from being ostensibly stable and settled, to being a 'nebach'.

Then there shidduchim to think about. It's an undeniable fact that generally speaking children from broken homes have it harder in 'the parsha'. So I totally get you.

OP, the question is now what. The above issues with divorce will still apply, so the question is whether you'd rather get divorced with all its stigma, than stay married to the husband who cheated on you.

That is a question that only you alone can answer. What is it that you felt towards him a week ago? You say you still love(d) him, but is that really hope and fantasy masquerading as love? In other words were you hoping and fantasising that he'd suddenly change into a completely different person whom you can manage to love? Were you ever actually in love? If yes, what changed and when?

How about now, what would be your ideal scenario, you know if Eliyahu Hanavi granted you a wish. Would it be for your husband to completely change and become trustworthy in your eyes, or does he so repulse you that it would be to be able to divorce without suffering any negative consequences?

The clearer and sharper you define your question to yourself, the more obvious you have your answer.

I’m confused with what I want. For me it’s not about reputation or status it’s about my feelings for him and to add to that is my feelings about divorce. I never saw that as an option for us, I never imagined it. He’s been a good husband in many ways. He swears this was not as important to him as it looked very clearly from the commutation between them! I can’t believe that and it makes me lose even more respect for him. If he could only say that it did mean something and be honest about how he truly feels. Of course I want to believe that the issues between us caused some kind of breakdown in him and that things could be repaired. It’s the blatant dismissal of this woman and his obvious feelings for her that make me hate seeing who he has become. I’m just very confused

Because if he’s not in love with her he’s been lying to her and using her same as he’s been lying to me. I know I should just accept this is beyond repair. He’s spent the evening crying and talking about all our happy memories. In the end I’ve left to go to my sisters. I can’t talk to her about what’s happened, I don’t want to tell anyone yet. I just said in need some space. He’s taking the whole week off work. He sent her messages in front of my face saying he never really loved her and she’s sending messages back saying she is sorry for the pain she caused but that she doesn’t believe that. Neither of us believe it. I feel like I should contact her to talk with her. I felt so angry with her earlier but I don’t anymore

Yes we have a son who is at university and a daughter who is thankfully on holiday for her gap year

Yes I would want him to change and for his sentiments to be real. Of course. I discussed the fact that reputation isn’t important as I will not expose what he’s done, It will be my last act of love to set him free without those repurcussions. I want to know the sorrow and love is genuine, not be stuck with a lying confused man who is only worried for his community standing.

I’m going to call this woman tomorrow, then I’ll go back home and talk with him

I am very sorry you find yourself ih this situation.

I have full respect for your personal belief system, and I am sure you will find a solution that will ultimately bring you peace, although it will be a difficult path no matter what you decide to do.

But under no circumstances would I contact the other women. I would not open the window even one tiny crack for her to breathe my air. She has already been permitted to invade the marriage; don’t let her invade your decision-making process. Assume the worst of her, or the best, but don’t permit her to be a party to your grief and upset.

I wish you well, and hope you have a network of support.