Should I live like this forever?

[sativum]

Hi, I am having some trouble with my marriage and really quite confused, so looking for some perspective. I am 34 and have been with my husband for my entire adult life (we married aged 23). We have two daughters aged 4 and 1. I have been suffering with chronic insomnia for a few years and realised only quite recently that I was not coping with life as well as I thought, so sought counselling. Through this I have realised that I grew up in a toxic family where I was emotionally neglected and abused, basically trained to keep quiet and not be an inconvenience to anyone. While trying to come to terms with this and figure out what kind of involvement I want with them in the future, I have started to realise that my relationship with my husband is not very healthy either.

My husband had a very traumatic childhood for several reasons and when he lost his mum aged 17, I wanted to be there for him. He has always showered me with affection, compliments and gifts in return. Our family and friends are always saying how much they admire our relationship and what a good guy he is. He pulls his weight with the children, probably doing more than 50% of their care, despite the fact that he suffers with chronic anxiety and depression for which he takes medication. He is a very generous (if slightly demanding) lover. So it seems that I have everything to be grateful for and little to complain about.

The problem is, he is emotionally and financially dependent on me. I have spent my entire adult life trying to ease his anxiety, depression, fatigue and heartache but it is a bottomless pit and I have become exhausted. I feel suffocated trying to help him get through normal aspects of life without experiencing too much pain, and have had to suppress all of my own emotions to do this. To add to the pressure, he works part time in a low paid job while I work full time and bring in most of our money. I have asked him several times to try and get better work but he gives up at the slightest hint of failure, and I am made to feel guilty for having asked in the first place.

By this point I have a conditioned response to the slightest indicator that he is unhappy. It gives me intense feelings of anxiety and guilt. This is has imposed big limitations on me, for example I do not drive because it makes him too nervous to be in the passenger seat, which also leaves me in the position of having to ask him to drive me everywhere. I do not feel able to rest when I am ill (even minor surgery) because he becomes exhausted and overwhelmed, and snaps at our daughters. I feel I have to ask for permission to pursue my hobbies even when I have cut those back massively over time. In addition to working more hours, I cook almost all of our meals and do more of the cleaning to take the pressure off him. It sounds silly but I even feel guilty for going to the toilet sometimes because he seems to struggle so much in my absence. I often feel trapped and even controlled.

Additionally, before we had children he had a period of very bad depression in which he was frequently suicidal. He treated me quite badly despite my efforts to support him and had an emotional affair with a friend. His own therapist confronted him about this at the time and he denied it. I forgave him without any argument because his mental health was so poor at the time, but having made so many sacrifices to help him be happy, I still feel pain about it. I guess one major issue is that I have always known that if I walked out on him, there is a real chance he might kill himself.

I am starting to think that he has unintentionally subjected me to a sort of low grade abuse for my entire life, and my gut instinct is to protect our children from his behaviours. But on the other hand, I know that he does genuinely love me and is generally the kindest and most loving man. He is having counselling again now, and I think he might be willing to make some real changes for the better. But after 17 years, I have made so many sacrifices and I am so drained, I am not sure whether I should gamble the rest of my 30s on that. I wonder what other people would do in my position? Thanks so much if you read this until the end, I know it is long.

You sound like a prisoner.

I hope you find a way to free yourself.

It's not healthy for your children to grow up around this behaviour. They will normalise it. He sounds very controlling with a veneer of "vulnerability" but really it's just limiting your own life so he can be less anxious.

This is not normal! Don't feel guilty about wanting to live a normal life and be for your children a sensible role model.

It sounds like you could do with some therapy for yourself to unhook some of your behaviours.

It also sounds like a very codependent relationship, which might be helpful for you to research into.

You need to get out of there OP. This is no life. He's done an absolute number on you. Imagine your post was written by another woman on here. What would you advise her?

I’m so sorry you’re going through this. Do you have marriage counselling? This might be a good way to work through some of these issues. Another adults happiness (even your own partner) is not your responsibility. A truly healthy relationship is when both partners take responsibility for their own mental health and don’t rely on the other person to make them happy. Talking to a therapist together might help to navigate this issue and help your partner become more self-reliant and focus on addressing his anxiety issues. Further pandering to his anxiety, like not driving, is not helping you or him.

You say that he helps 50% or more with the kids - however, that he can’t cope without you around? This doesn’t sound like he’s taking an equal share. But again this is linked to his anxiety issues. He really needs helps with this. My husbands mums side have anxiety issues which they refuse to treat, and they’re now a group of 60/70 year olds who are intolerable at times, one of them can’t even leave the house, the other cancelled a once in a lifetime trip due to her anxiety, my mother in law herself is very difficult sometimes and I don’t like being around her due to her anxiety. This stuff doesn’t go away and needs addressing.

If after this you’re not seeing any improvement or if he refuses to address his issues, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to put your own mental health first and separate.

All the best - you deserve to be in a happy healthy relationship so make that your focus, whether it’s through working through things or walking away.

Can you grow together??

Yeah you are right. I am having therapy and would never have realised any of this wasn't right without it. I also recently found out about codependency and my relationship certainly is. I understand that in doing too much and not speaking up more, I have made it worse. But my attempts to change things, like asking him to get better work haven't led anywhere. My therapist suggested he needed some therapy and he is doing it, but I'm wondering if it's too late. Being really honest, I've been unhappy for a long time.

I am very worried about the kids picking this up, my older daughter already has some behavioural issues. I think she senses that things aren't right and my husband can be a bit nasty to her when he becomes overwhelmed.

I am so sorry you are living like this. It is an awful way to live. Try to find the wherewithal and emotional strength to break free.
Id say you are probably being manipulated.

I guess that is what I'm asking myself. Should I submit to a few more years of trying to make it work with my eyes fully open and with better communication? But if he doesn't change I'll have wasted those years. And if he does change, I'm still not sure I can get over losing my youth to his misery (even though I chose to, sort of). I feel like loving him has been a lifelong obligation and that isn't really love, is it?

Wow there is a lot there.
You being together from 23 isn't your entire adult life, you had 5 years beforehand and you knew about his depression before you had children together.

Your children picking up things from his behaviour will still be a factor even if you weren't together..

Him killing himself without you is an irrational fear and something you can't control and not something to make life decisions based on, discuss this with your therapist.

Him needing and going to therapy is a good thing for him and the children regardless of whether you stay together.

It's great that you have found compassion towards yourself through therapy but I would be wary of thinking of yourself as a victim in this dynamic because it absolves you from responsibility of your choices and fuels resentment which you really should avoid when you have to coparent with him for the rest of your lives.

I would try to find this compassion towards him and if you want to separate do so without turning him into this abusive monster, because he too has a lot of challenges and you knew how he was before you went in. I appreciate that your own trauma made you choose unwisely and now you know better, but he also acted in certain ways due to his own trauma too. The narrative that he exploited or abused you is not helpful and I would focus on a positive way to move forward with or without him as your partner.

Thanks for replying. He is getting help but I have no idea if it will work. There have been a lot of promises over the years to improve things, but not much has. It sounds so sad when I type it!

So you're seeing his illness as a burden and you want more of a traditional family set up where the man works equally or more than you. Reader, flip the genders and see how this sits with you.

@NanaBoat his illness IS a burden to the OP to the point where he is controlling what she can and can't do e.g. not allowed to drive etc etc

"he becomes exhausted and overwhelmed, and snaps at our daughters. I feel I have to ask for permission to pursue my hobbies even when I have cut those back massively over time. In addition to working more hours, I cook almost all of our meals and do more of the cleaning to take the pressure off him. It sounds silly but I even feel guilty for going to the toilet sometimes because he seems to struggle so much in my absence. I often feel trapped and even controlled."

Why is this ok? it's not.

OP ignore the naysayers. Don't stay with someone who makes you feel like this. You've got one life. Sounds like he has you exactly where he wants you! At his beck and call, nice and controlled and busy on his behalf, limiting what you can and can't do, all with a side helping of guilt.

Your happiness and your kids happiness is paramount. Don't throw it all away for someone who behaves like this.

But she's working full time and doing all the cooking and most of the cleaning.

In a more traditional family set up where the man works, the woman does the majority of the childcare and household tasks. That's not what's happening here. She's contributing far more than he is and he can't even be trusted to look after his own kids without snapping at them.

Also don't kid yourself that he will change. It's been 17 YEARS so far - what's changed in that time?? Stop deluding yourself.

If you break up you can do it with kindness. Doesn't have to be the end of your friendship you can even offer support from a distance, if you feel so inclined. Don't throw your life away though for this man.

Thanks. It is my entire adult life because I moved in with him when I was 17. I have never been in another relationship.

I see what you are saying about it not being abuse, this is something I am constantly questioning. I am completely aware that other people have it much worse. But I get very upset when he has done things like shouting in my baby's face to be quiet because he cannot cope with her crying, or talking to my older daughter in a scary and intimidating way when she dawdles on the stairs before bedtime. I do stand up to him when he does things like that but he minimises everything and then gets sad, like I was in the wrong to disagree. I guess abuse was a strong word to use but I do feel like he treats us all like shit when he's not happy.

I absolutely love my work and am proud to be setting the example that you can be a mother and have a good career too. I would not give up working if he had a better job. But it is a massive worry to be financially carrying our family and managing the household without a lot of support.

A lot of men hide their abuse behind mental illness. Just because of his anxiety and mental health issues does not make this behaviour ok. And it does not mean that the abuse is caused by the illness. They are separate issues here.

I'm honestly surprised at some of the comments you're getting on here where people are not calling out the abuse.

I've been in a similar situation with a man with MH issues and similar outbursts to your partner OP and it was really hard to look objectively and separate out the abusive behaviour from the MH issues. It's almost what is keeping you hooked into it because they have the perfect excuse to keep you in line, worrying about them.

Worry about your kids, and yourself.

People aren't black and white / good or bad. That was hard for me to figure out. My ex partner isn't 100% a bad person and had some redeeming qualities. fortunately though I realised how serious his behaviour was for our son and my own MH. In fact I think he was the reason that my own MH was so bad. I dumped him! I tolerate him from a distance now. It's not easy because we have to parent our son together and he is still prone to being an arse. But it's 10 times better.

Leave this man ASAP.

Hi op, I am estranged from my DF because he has made suicide attempts in the past and told me if I didn’t have a relationship with him he would do it again. It’s emotional abuse, no one should make you feel as though you’re responsible for keeping them from ending things. You don’t have to live like this 💐

As someone who suffered terrible Childhood Emotional Neglect and Depression and Anxiety I can see both sides. I think you need to step back and work on yourself. You can't pour from an empty cup.

You DH needs to step up. If depressed get medication. Start pushing himself. He needs to get a full time job and not depend on you to carry the whole financial burden.

You are not his saviour he needs to do that himself. Start putting boundaries in place or he will drag you down.

"he has done things like shouting in my baby's face to be quiet because he cannot cope with her crying, or talking to my older daughter in a scary and intimidating way when she dawdles on the stairs before bedtime."

this is terrible, abusive and not excusable in any way. People sympathising with the husband here are missing the big stuff!!!

He IS absusive and he won't change. Shouting in your baby's face, scaring your daughter with horrid voices - unacceptable. He is probably only having counselling to placate you to be honest. He has been this way since you were 17 OP, honestly, don't waste anymore of your years on him, he will just get worse. For your sake, for your kids sake, make plans to leave him. He has no one to blame but himself and the more you run around after him, putting his happiness before your own and the children's, the more it becomes his normality. He has no reason to change right now because everything is as he wants/needs it to be. You need to rock his world, upset his equilibrium but personally if I were you, leave and never go back. He sounds awful.

I really appreciate all these different perspectives. I cannot rely on my family to give solid advice and I think my (our) friends might think I've gone off the rails if I said anything.

To be absolutely clear, I am not blaming him in any way for having MH issues. Our relationship began because I felt (and still feel) such sympathy for the traumas he faced as a teenager. I have made mistakes along the way but educated myself as much as possible and always supported him through his difficulties as best I can. Clearly, aged 17 I did not know what I was getting myself into. I did think about leaving him after he had the emotional affair, as he was also very unkind to me during those times and treated me like an enemy, but I thought it was my duty to suffer so that he could get better. I know this sounds ridiculous.

I think that some of his behaviour might be legitimately labelled abusive if he knew he was doing it, but I rarely see signs that that is the case. I think he is probably just too wrapped up in his own problems to realise what he's doing is not right, and my protests have not been loud enough. Then again, I have very few healthy reference points elsewhere in my life to help me figure out if part of it is intentional. I can be naive, having had no other romantic relationships.

I guess part of the trouble is, if all his problems went away tomorrow I would still have been trampled on for 17 years and don't really know who I am without him. Taking some space for a while seems like a great idea, but I am not sure how that would work with children involved and with no alternative accomodation available. I am fairly sure I would be pressured to stay with him by my family. They would say I was being selfish and delusional. And it goes without saying that I need to be very sure that any future moves I make will benefit, not further disturb, the children.

I think you know you have to leave but I understand it takes the time to build up the courage to end it.

I was in a very similar situation. After 18yrs it was the hardest and scariest thing I've ever had to do. Especially as he had no where else to go and I knew he wouldn't do well without me propping him up. But it got to the point that my mental health was in the gutter and the way he was acting was negatively efecting our children.

I had to find my anger. Remember all the shit he put me and gis children through. And remind myself that I am not responsible for him. If his family don't want to take him in, that's on them and not me. If he falls down without me then that's on him and not me.

Ending it was the best thing I ever did. I feel 10 stone lighter. And yes he has struggled like I knew he would but he is not my responsibility and neither is your partner yours. Find you anger OP.

Oh OP, you are superwoman! Your strength is admirable. I'm sorry to simplify your life like this but you need to start living for you. Who are you? What do you want from life? So far, it has revolved around him and his needs and nothing saddens me more than women (and men, but not as often) who do this. Dont allow your children's lives to be dictated to like this because they will end up in relationships with similar dynamics. They will grow up thinking that the women's role is to prop everyone else up and put themselves last. You have sacrificed enough for him. Keep up with the therapy and discover who you really are. He will push back on this but you really need to find a way to stop feeling guilty. You need to gather your strength and power through it because he will most definitely start talking about suicide again the minute he notices a change in you. Do it for your children, but most importantly, do it for you.

It is not your duty to suffer.

Not for 17 years, not for 17 weeks. You commiting the rest of your life to this cause in the hope that he and the relationship will change won't help anyone, and you will have yourself and your daughters to reckon with at the end.

Just like your parents, and his parents, did a number on you both as kids, so it goes with your own daughters. You seem like you can make a change and stop the cycle, but sitting in this situation because you feel you have to, won't do a thing for anyone.

He may have mental health issues AND be abusive. No it's not simple, no you don't need to unpick it and stay around until you have worked it out. If it doesn't feel right for you, it's not right for you and that is all the reason that you need.