Emotional cheat? Has it gone too far?

[Daftpunk2]

I haven't spoken to anyone about this so thought I would reach out as I'm really struggling to process my current situation. For context I've been with my husband for 8 years. We've been through alot together and have had some wonderful times and have two beautiful children. There has been alot of up and downs due to many things my husband has had to go through with his mental health which I have always supported him with.
For the past year we've not been hugely close intimately due to various reasons but mainly just life and being parents. We have drifted apart.
For the past year he has had a freindship with another woman from his office. Throughout this time I was pregnant so we couldn't do alot of the things we used to do together and naturally I didn't feel at my most sexy and confident. He has always had female freindships which I am fine with for the most part but this one just seemed a bit off for me and a culmination of things has led to me feeling toally disrespected and my feelings invalidated. Firstly, they started to do a couple of things out of the office together. One of these was an outdoor adventure activity but he took one of my family members too and assured me she was just a freind so I didn't think too much of it. I have to say I wasn't overjoyed when I saw on a picture she was wearing his top to do the activity in. But I put my insecurity down to pregnancy hormones.
He then told me he was thinking of going to a gig with her, her friend and his friend and I made clear I wasn't comfortable with that. More so for the respect element that I was sat at home heavily pregnant I thought it was a bit disrespectful him going to a gig with a woman I didn't know. He said he wouldn't go with her but she was his only way to get a lift back after the gig but assured me he'd just meet her after the gig for a lift. Therefore they didn't travel to the location together but afterwards when I asked him he admitted they all met up for a drink before the gig, went to the gig together and then she drove him home with her friend. Again I was assured this is just his friend but I felt that my dubiousness and unhappyness about it was just totally ignored as he met up with her anyway!
I recently found on his phone that they had been sending eachother regular memes on Instagram, WhatsApp etc that were just odd. Like the stuff you would send your partner. It didn't add up. They weren't particularly flirtatious but for example, he sent her a meme with a woman saying when you've been dirty talking all day and he gets home and the woman was sat in sweatpants with messy hair. Why an earth would he send that to a girl from work and not his wife? She also sent things about marriage and it was just unexplainable really. Either they are slagging their current partners off, suggesting they are like a married couple, or it's just freindly chat but just seems odd. I confronted him and asked if something was going on and he said he was sorry he just found the memes funny and there was nothing to it. When I asked why he sent them to her and not his wife he just said he didn't think and they just often send eachother funny memes as they are mates.
A few days later he was getting lifts into work from her again so again I felt totally disregarded.
My husband is also in a local band and I went to support one night and she turned up. She didn't acknowledge me, speak to me or so much as smile at me throughout which I found odd behaviour! It was only a small pub and we were right next to eachother. If I was mates with someone's husband and been on days out with him I'd introduce myself to said person's wife! She acted odd. At the front the whole time almost like she had more right to be there than me and almost as though she wanted me to see her there. I later discovered when i left early to go home to our kids she lingered and asked him for a private word telling him how upset she was he didn't speak to her during the gig. Why an earth would you be that bothered about a guy from the office not making a fuss over you at a gig when his wife and freinds are there?! Her whole persona was that she was the "it girl" and I felt totally humiliated. He told me he would cut ties with her after her behaviour at the gig as he acknowledged it wasn't respectful and he didn't want anyone coming between us and he saw that it upset me and it wasn't worth it.
Through discussions around her following this where I've demanded the truth and explanation for stuff that doesn't seem to make sense to me he's sworn to me he has absolutely no feelings for her and doesn't fancy her in the slightest telling me he actually finds her unattractive and I'm a million times better etc.
Anyway, Curiosity got the better of me and I recently went further through his phone to find messages from a few months back that confirmed they were more then just "mates". There was nothing extreme or nothing to suggest anything physical but there was clear flirty banter there and clear disrespect. For example, her asking him if she liked her outfits she wore that she posted on Instagram and him telling her no comment but I saw them and liked them. She is one of these girls who wears tiny skirts and fishnets and posts tonnes of pictures of herself posing!! What hurts so much about this is it was weeks after we just had another baby he was commenting on her skimpy photos. I had a very traumatic birth and wasn't well for a while postpartum so I couldn't believe he would disregard me like that. And following another mental breakdown my husband had shortly after the birth of our baby that I supported him through despite going through my own postpartum sturggles,.the timing of these messages has devastated me.
I think more than the flirty chat was more the conversations where it looked like he had actual feelings for her i.e telling her he's been worried sick about her coz she drove home late from a gig in the rain one night. Why would you be sat home giving a girl from work a second thought? He also bought her a birthday present which I couldn't believe!! All the while telling her he doesn't want her husband to know coz he might find it weird!
This all blew up and I went ballistic and I told him I wanted to leave him. He has borken his heart over it and totally cut ties with her and has confessed to the flirty banter and that it's totally out of order he just said he just wanted attention and to be liked but he has zero feelings for her. I know he wouldn't go there with her physically coz she is the complete opposite of what he likes in a woman particularly in terms of morals, I know he just enjoyed the thought of it perhaps. but the fact he enjoyed the flirting and attention is enough for me. And also if I hadn't have found these messages it would have continued and who knows. I've always felt in my heart I know he wouldn't physically cheat but I feel this is still hugely hurtful but he seems to just explain it as stupid flirty banter that has no meaning behind it whatsoever. He seems very genuine in his promises that he is deeply regretful and sorry and that it wasn't her he liked just the attention but has it gone too far? I'll also add it was even harder to swallow coz we've had pretty much zero intimacy and not been close for a long time due to pregnancy, me having a traumatic birth and horrendous recovery and him having multiple breakdowns. So seeing him seem to lust over another woman and put energy into her was pretty heartbreaking. I do feel there has been and still could be alot to fight for in this marriage but at the same time I don't want to be a mug and I have found these actions so betraying and made me ask so many questions. Any advice welcome :(

I know he wouldn't go there with her physically coz she is the complete opposite of what he likes in a woman particularly in terms of morals

Er…?
I think you should be more worried about his ( lack of) morals.

You feel betrayed because he HAS betrayed you

So inappropriate and he has to know how hurtful this is to you. 💐

The thing which really stands out to me (and there’s a lot of really bad behaviour on his part here) is where he says none of it means anything, it’s just banter etc.

So he’s willing to risk his marriage and his children’s stability for something which means nothing?

It can’t be true. Someone who didn’t mean anything might be the odd bit of flirty banter on a night out but it’s certainly not months and months (or years it sounds like) of a sustained intimate relationship. And intimidate doesn’t have to mean, physical. He has lied the whole time and he’s continuing to lie by downplaying the whole situation.

He either has absolutely zero respect for you or he thinks you’re stupid.

The ones that make a big song and dance about morals (both their own and what they expect in women) are usually the biggest bullshitters.

If he tells you of his high standards in woman you can bet its to put you off the scent that he's a pig.

I’d be very suspicious . There has been a relationship going on here. Sorry

I can't believe what I'm reading. They have both taken the piss out of you, sorry, because you have been more than tolerant.

I've heard friends say 'well he wouldn't cheat because xxx' and convinced themselves he's not like that, or because the husband has 'reassured' the wife a woman is not his type. Please don't fall for that trope. You are worth more than that.

You deserve honesty. I'm sorry, but they have an emotional (possibly physical) connection and while he denies it, he continues to disrespect you and your kids. Please toughen up with this liar and cheat.

I work in music- there's always young women like this hanging around and even should I say older women too with some of the older bands - and there are always married and partnered up blokes stupid enough and with huge egos going along encouraging it - he's to blame but I don't hold with the 'don't blame the woman she owes you nothing' point of view either- she may not - but clearly she's a bit lacking in her standards to make a play for a married guy with a pregnant wife-

All I can say is maybe see how you feel in 6 months and see what happens- don't bust a gut and put yourself in a worse position - don't be suprised if you realise you no longer feel the same about him- he has a great deal of grovelling to do

Oh and don't be suprised if this woman gets nasty when she realises he is no longer her 'friend' and decides to tell all to you

Has it gone too far? Yes.

"and him having multiple breakdowns" So how have these breakdowns manifested themselves? Have they had an effect on his 'friendship' with her, or just his relationship with you?

I was in a similar situation and it killed the trust. We split in the end. I would suggest counselling together to work through and go from there. My dh did say he would cut all contact but didn’t. Just be aware. Looking at it now I think my dh felt pushed out/lack of attention once we had children. Seems to be a common theme

It never ceases to amaze me just how easily men can cast their morals aside and shag these women who 'aren't their type'.

You never truly know how secure a marriage truly is

I’m sorry op, that’s shit. I would be prepared for more to come out, because that is the thing about “the script”. It’s not just what these cheating wankers tell their DW or GF, it’s what they tell themselves. They KNOW that what they are doing is wrong, shitty, disrespectful and unkind, but they want to do it, so they do an AWFUL lot of mental gymnastics to make it ok….to themselves. They do not want to think they are cheating wankers, so they make it your fault because no sex/not getting on / you are too busy with the children….you can insert whatever excuse you want here. That’s all utter bullshit of course, he has a choice and he could have chosen not to behave like a Twat. He didn’t. She can also fuck right off as well. She knows he’s married with very young children. That should put him firmly in the friends only zone immediately.
Having said all that, is it possible you’ve caught it early and this is all that’s happened (and I’m not minimising it, what he’s done is vile)? Yes, it is. None of us can know what’s really happened here. I would suggest couples counselling and also some individual therapy for him - WHY did he need that attention and validation? Why did he feel entitled? What is morally missing in him?
IF he can take full responsibility, do the really hard work of working out what’s wrong with him and not blame you in anyway (and most of them just cannot do this - the self reflection is just too awful) then maybe, maybe you’ll have something to work with. If you want to. You might also decide that this is a dealbreaker. And that is entirely your decision. And, that’s the thing moving forward, all the decisions now have to be yours, because the decisions he has made have definitely not been in your or your dcs best interests. Good luck xxxx

You make a good point. The breakdowns have ultimately impacted our marriage in that I often play the role of "carer" and have to pick up everything in terms of family life whilst he focuses on himself. I can be like a lone parent at times when he's at his worse mentally and this has been going on a very long time. It's affected us in the sense we have lost the relationship we used to have as it's normally a case now of me emotionally supporting him and him struggling to function and give back as a normal husband does. He has always told me he is so grateful but obviously these acts of betrayel make me question his gratitude and respect for me at all! If anything throught his mental health issues it's brought those two closer together as it seems to have made him even more intense with her. He's told me it's his issue that he demands the need for attention and to be liked by people coz of his own mental issues but I'm not sure how much I buy the rhetoric of blaming it on your mental health. Surely you would put all your energy into the family who has stood by you at your worst moments and not send flirtatious messages to someone else. He complains alot that we aren't where we need to be and I don't give him enough lovey dovey attention. But from looking after him and the kids constantly I'm often exhausted and feel I don't have much left in my cup. I've also had a lot to deal with just having a baby a few months back and the recovery from the birth has been long and very painful. I just cannot understand why when your wife has supported you so much, just had your baby and gives you the stability you never had in life he would disregard us so much like that. I've questioned him alot as it makes him look like he doesn't love or fancy me at all if he can act like this with her. Ofcourse he's adamant thats not the case...

You seem to be a very loyal, caring, generous and forgiving person. Sadly, just because you have these qualities it doesn’t mean that they will be appreciated and reciprocated by a partner.
Put your emotions aside and focus on clearly defining your boundaries: what’s ok and what’s not ok in your books. Make a list. Focus on facts: does your partner know and respect your boundaries? His breakdowns don’t justify disregard for your boundaries. You are not his therapist. If he is unable to change, for whatever reason - it’s time to part ways.

My ex did this to me. You'll find you'll be unable to trust him now. Once that's gone it'll be hard to go back to how you were. It is a form of cheating. I'm sorry you're going through this. I've come away stronger. I tried to forgive and move on but he continued and I decided I was better than that.

Does his mh plummet just enough to get you back on side?
I had a dh like that.

Strangely his depression allowed for drinking down the pub and golf and pool but never to pay bills or go shopping..
Exh now.
Raise your bar op. Before your mh is in tatters.

He's promised before to cut ties but you've since discovered he didn't do this, so why should you believe him now?

As PP said, he's claimed she means nothing but that makes no sense. Plus he's contradicted himself: he was 'worried sick' about her.

Not sure why you think he's not likely physically to cheat? Their relationship has escalated (while you've been at your most vulnerable) and he's admired her provocative photos.

I think you need to start prioritising your own feelings and needs.

@Daftpunk2, for a year you’ve not been very close, and I daresay this is in large part due to his year-long obsession and affair with OW.

They’ve clearly been building illicit intimacy via their work togetherness, lifts, flirty messaging, compliments, secret gifts, and meet-ups, both solo and with others. You likely don’t know the half of it.

When you expressed your discomfort, he gaslighted and dismissed you while continuing to prioritize OW. This was all about his selfishness and weak boundaries, and not about you. He is responsible for his fidelity.

He’s lying that he ‘has absolutely no feelings for her and doesn’t fancy her in the slightest.’ This is bullshit. His laser focus has been on OW for a year, even immediately after the traumatic birth of your baby and your suffering afterward. He was worried about her. He engineered ways to be with her, and she was wearing his clothes. He was determined to have that gig date with her, and made it happen after lying to you. At his band’s gig she blanked you and acted like she owned the place because he has been acting like they’re a couple.

Now that you’ve rumbled their inappropriate messages and told him you want to leave, he’s making a big racket to hoover you. You’d be very foolish to fall for this. Remember that he’s been playing you like a fiddle for many months. He really needs to experience the sharp consequence of being sent away while you process your feelings. I wouldn’t even consider a reconciliation until he (1) has come clean about the extent of their involvement and (2) has done a ton of work on himself through IC and infidelity recovery sources. If he doesn’t dig deep to explore his character flaws, this will happen again.

Keep posting for support, @Daftpunk2.

I haven’t even finished your post

this is utterly disrespectful and whilst we are not supposed the slate the ow , she is a total cunt also

you have no options here other than to go totally nuclear IMO

hes trod totally over your boundaries and as with the boiling frog analogy it’s where it is

I know this is an oft repeated line but I’d 100% get ready to end this
I’m sorry but this is beyond the pale and I can’t see him changing

Im so sorry , this is not how a husband behaves

Men who do / act like this are not 100% invested in their partner and children.
Do you really want to be with a man like that ?

Yeah he's doing just enough to hoover you back in on his side. Meanwhile he's still carrying on with her being disrespectful at least.

He sounds very selfish and immature, OP. I’m sceptical about whether he genuinely suffers from mental health issues - they don’t seem to stop him going out and having a lot of fun. They do, handily, prevent you from asking him to step up. And the idea that you should be giving him more lovey-dovey time. Urgh. He’s definitely a taker, not a giver, isn’t he?

@Daftpunk2 Please don't torture yourself with the 'why would he do this, I've always been mega supportive' thing- I've been that person. It really, really isn't you- it's simply a twat who really likes 'the buzz of the new' and someone focussing all their attention on him. Many men are like this- the minute they get caught out then the only defence line so they don't feel like an absolute arse involve 'well you don't do this that it the other' . When I caught my H out in a very similar scenario his first comment besides turning white as a sheet was 'well you always hated my mother' (he was carrying on like this whilst his mother was terminally I'll and blamed his behaviour on his MH at the time and that he needed a pleasant distraction)

In fairness he was disgusted at himself and said I couldn't make him feel worse than he already felt (I had a damn good go at it though) and he did say 'you will never see me in the same light again will you' and I was very honest and said 'no' -

Personally as I said in my previous post I would see how it goes, see how you feel. It may be that if he stops communication this woman might be only too keen to spill the beans to you anyway if there is anything to spill.

This is doomed.