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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Emotional cheat? Has it gone too far?

54 replies

Daftpunk2 · 18/05/2023 22:05

I haven't spoken to anyone about this so thought I would reach out as I'm really struggling to process my current situation. For context I've been with my husband for 8 years. We've been through alot together and have had some wonderful times and have two beautiful children. There has been alot of up and downs due to many things my husband has had to go through with his mental health which I have always supported him with.
For the past year we've not been hugely close intimately due to various reasons but mainly just life and being parents. We have drifted apart.
For the past year he has had a freindship with another woman from his office. Throughout this time I was pregnant so we couldn't do alot of the things we used to do together and naturally I didn't feel at my most sexy and confident. He has always had female freindships which I am fine with for the most part but this one just seemed a bit off for me and a culmination of things has led to me feeling toally disrespected and my feelings invalidated. Firstly, they started to do a couple of things out of the office together. One of these was an outdoor adventure activity but he took one of my family members too and assured me she was just a freind so I didn't think too much of it. I have to say I wasn't overjoyed when I saw on a picture she was wearing his top to do the activity in. But I put my insecurity down to pregnancy hormones.
He then told me he was thinking of going to a gig with her, her friend and his friend and I made clear I wasn't comfortable with that. More so for the respect element that I was sat at home heavily pregnant I thought it was a bit disrespectful him going to a gig with a woman I didn't know. He said he wouldn't go with her but she was his only way to get a lift back after the gig but assured me he'd just meet her after the gig for a lift. Therefore they didn't travel to the location together but afterwards when I asked him he admitted they all met up for a drink before the gig, went to the gig together and then she drove him home with her friend. Again I was assured this is just his friend but I felt that my dubiousness and unhappyness about it was just totally ignored as he met up with her anyway!
I recently found on his phone that they had been sending eachother regular memes on Instagram, WhatsApp etc that were just odd. Like the stuff you would send your partner. It didn't add up. They weren't particularly flirtatious but for example, he sent her a meme with a woman saying when you've been dirty talking all day and he gets home and the woman was sat in sweatpants with messy hair. Why an earth would he send that to a girl from work and not his wife? She also sent things about marriage and it was just unexplainable really. Either they are slagging their current partners off, suggesting they are like a married couple, or it's just freindly chat but just seems odd. I confronted him and asked if something was going on and he said he was sorry he just found the memes funny and there was nothing to it. When I asked why he sent them to her and not his wife he just said he didn't think and they just often send eachother funny memes as they are mates.
A few days later he was getting lifts into work from her again so again I felt totally disregarded.
My husband is also in a local band and I went to support one night and she turned up. She didn't acknowledge me, speak to me or so much as smile at me throughout which I found odd behaviour! It was only a small pub and we were right next to eachother. If I was mates with someone's husband and been on days out with him I'd introduce myself to said person's wife! She acted odd. At the front the whole time almost like she had more right to be there than me and almost as though she wanted me to see her there. I later discovered when i left early to go home to our kids she lingered and asked him for a private word telling him how upset she was he didn't speak to her during the gig. Why an earth would you be that bothered about a guy from the office not making a fuss over you at a gig when his wife and freinds are there?! Her whole persona was that she was the "it girl" and I felt totally humiliated. He told me he would cut ties with her after her behaviour at the gig as he acknowledged it wasn't respectful and he didn't want anyone coming between us and he saw that it upset me and it wasn't worth it.
Through discussions around her following this where I've demanded the truth and explanation for stuff that doesn't seem to make sense to me he's sworn to me he has absolutely no feelings for her and doesn't fancy her in the slightest telling me he actually finds her unattractive and I'm a million times better etc.
Anyway, Curiosity got the better of me and I recently went further through his phone to find messages from a few months back that confirmed they were more then just "mates". There was nothing extreme or nothing to suggest anything physical but there was clear flirty banter there and clear disrespect. For example, her asking him if she liked her outfits she wore that she posted on Instagram and him telling her no comment but I saw them and liked them. She is one of these girls who wears tiny skirts and fishnets and posts tonnes of pictures of herself posing!! What hurts so much about this is it was weeks after we just had another baby he was commenting on her skimpy photos. I had a very traumatic birth and wasn't well for a while postpartum so I couldn't believe he would disregard me like that. And following another mental breakdown my husband had shortly after the birth of our baby that I supported him through despite going through my own postpartum sturggles,.the timing of these messages has devastated me.
I think more than the flirty chat was more the conversations where it looked like he had actual feelings for her i.e telling her he's been worried sick about her coz she drove home late from a gig in the rain one night. Why would you be sat home giving a girl from work a second thought? He also bought her a birthday present which I couldn't believe!! All the while telling her he doesn't want her husband to know coz he might find it weird!
This all blew up and I went ballistic and I told him I wanted to leave him. He has borken his heart over it and totally cut ties with her and has confessed to the flirty banter and that it's totally out of order he just said he just wanted attention and to be liked but he has zero feelings for her. I know he wouldn't go there with her physically coz she is the complete opposite of what he likes in a woman particularly in terms of morals, I know he just enjoyed the thought of it perhaps. but the fact he enjoyed the flirting and attention is enough for me. And also if I hadn't have found these messages it would have continued and who knows. I've always felt in my heart I know he wouldn't physically cheat but I feel this is still hugely hurtful but he seems to just explain it as stupid flirty banter that has no meaning behind it whatsoever. He seems very genuine in his promises that he is deeply regretful and sorry and that it wasn't her he liked just the attention but has it gone too far? I'll also add it was even harder to swallow coz we've had pretty much zero intimacy and not been close for a long time due to pregnancy, me having a traumatic birth and horrendous recovery and him having multiple breakdowns. So seeing him seem to lust over another woman and put energy into her was pretty heartbreaking. I do feel there has been and still could be alot to fight for in this marriage but at the same time I don't want to be a mug and I have found these actions so betraying and made me ask so many questions. Any advice welcome :(

OP posts:
caringcarer · 19/05/2023 10:30

He is carrying out an EA right in front of your nose. I'd give him ultimatum either block her outside of work or move out and go to her. Your self esteem will never recover whilst he flirts with this colleague. Would he change jobs?

Frogger8395 · 19/05/2023 10:59

It’s no coincidence that he felt entitled to do this when you were pregnant and vulnerable after the birth. I think you’re being very naive to assume there’s been no physical contact. An emotional affair is an affair that has not turned physical yet and that’s because of distance or lack of opportunity. Not many people would put so much energy into a year long relationship where there is endless flirting but no contact. And wearing his clothes? Come on.

He's childish, manipulative and disrespectful. He sounds narcissistic. Start putting yourself first because you are on your own. There is no marriage, only the illusion of one. Cut off the support to this attention seeker and make a life for yourself without him.

Tiddlypomtiddlypom · 19/05/2023 11:39

Jesus. He’s awful. And I’d bet money that he has already gone there.

Tell him to leave.

Sherrycat · 19/05/2023 11:44

I'm so sorry you've been through this. Please don't ever think it's anything you did wrong. It's something broken in them.

My husband did similar & spent months grovelling to me. He never once blamed me. He said he was stressed with work & she was a distraction & knows he was an idiot.

It didn't get as far as sex cause they were caught quite quickly by her husband. He read filth on her phone about what they like sexually. My husband admitted they kissed. She has denied this to her husband.

I was completely broken as we've always been very close & the "perfect" couple to the outside world. I told my brother & he said he cheated on his partner too & said women can be very persuasive when they want a man. I can believe that cause this woman was a filthy cow from what my husbands work friends told me.

They said she was relentless with the filthy banter. This would have been right up my husbands street! Anyway we are a few yrs down the line. He hasn't given me any reason to think he's done anything since. Infact he's an even better husband. But.......I'm still very hurt & have to live with the memories of what I was shown by her husband.

One message it was very clear my husband got hard from kissing her. Another is a selfie they took together on the last day working at her house & one is a dick pic he sent her.

I sometimes wonder if I made the right decision staying together, but I still loved him & couldn't bare the thought of him moving on with someone else. Plus I couldn't afford to split up & it would have broken our kids hearts & caused too much upheaval for them.

Every day there is a battle going on in my head about whether I have mugged myself off or not. My mum & close friends said I made the right decision staying cause they could see he was truly remorseful & they don't get the impression he will do anything stupid again. We both lost a lot of weight from the stress of it. I could see he was broken too & hated himself.

You need to ask yourself if you're prepared to go through months, maybe even yrs of mental turmoil. Is he worth it? Is he a good husband & father? Do you trust him not to do it again?

Specso · 19/05/2023 12:10

“he said he cheated on his partner too & said women can be very persuasive when they want a man. I can believe that cause this woman was a filthy cow from what my husbands work friends told me.

They said she was relentless with the filthy banter”

🙄

These poor, vulnerable men, I don’t know how they cope with all these predatory women around.

If only there was an easy solution available to them like self control or the word no.

WednesdaysMentor · 19/05/2023 12:13

When i had been with DP for 19 years he tried to get my friend into bed, it was a serious effort but i found out before anything happened. He swore to me she was just a friend, nothing would ever have happened, he never looked at her like that, she is too full on and he doesnt fancy her. I never believed him, i knew he always fancied her and he was bullshitting me.

He moved out in January (4 years later), we hadnt split but were in crisis talks. 8 weeks after moving out, guess who he now lives with? Yep the EA woman. So when they say they dont fancy these women and they are just a friend.. they bloody well do.

Run OP, he is lying to you and if he hasnt already had an affair with her he is trying his best.

Crikeyalmighty · 19/05/2023 12:15

@Sherrycat I totally know how you feel. We too were what people would say were a perfect couple, we have a business together too, that's why I don't hold with the 'there must have been something wrong' kind of ethos- nope- he just got off on the ego boost and the distraction away from life which was a bit challenging at the time. Hugs x

MammaTo · 19/05/2023 12:25

Oh OP I feel awful for you.

Please don’t let his MH issues be an excuse for his awful behaviour. How dare he treat you like this when you’ve done so much to support him. This is how he repays you.

Having just had a baby myself I feel like you go through different chapters of life and with kids and newborns particularly, it’s not a chapter of your life where you can be lovey dovey, but you both know that that feeling will come back eventually. But he’s been too selfish and enjoyed the flirtation this woman brings. I feel like if it hasn’t been physical already it will be soon.

I personally couldn’t get past this behaviour. If you do decide to stay with him please make sure you’re doing it for the right reasons and not just for convenience.

Daftpunk2 · 19/05/2023 12:53

Yes you're right. It makes no sense. The thing is I didn't even see all the messages as he came in the house so I don't even know the true extent. What I saw was bad enough but I have no idea how far it went conversation wise. I know there was also messages via Snapchat but he has conveniently deleted this app. He swears they were just memes via Snapchat but how am I meant to believe someone who has lied to me for months on end. And I think when you haven't seen everything you sit questioning how far the disrespect actually went and am I being mugged off even more

OP posts:
Bunnywabbity · 19/05/2023 13:02

So his mental health difficulties make him crave the affection of women in fishnets... Why isn't he craving the attention of Dave in accounts? Also handy that he had a breakdown when you and the children most needed his support.

Sherrycat · 19/05/2023 13:05

Crikeyalmighty · 19/05/2023 12:15

@Sherrycat I totally know how you feel. We too were what people would say were a perfect couple, we have a business together too, that's why I don't hold with the 'there must have been something wrong' kind of ethos- nope- he just got off on the ego boost and the distraction away from life which was a bit challenging at the time. Hugs x

Like you said & he admitted too "an ego boost". He's a middle aged man & she was much younger. Such a cliché! I really thought I'd done something wrong & wasn't giving him enough attention. We had a very demanding toddler at the time. He told me that wasn't the case, he was happy, he was just being a greedy idiot.

MummyJ36 · 19/05/2023 13:12

Lord 🙄I’ve known two men now have “mental breakdowns” when they were having an affair (or been found out to have an affair). Being blunt, if you stick with him you know what’s going to happen and I think I you may only have yourself to blame as he’s shown you very clearly who he is. Just get rid of him. Seriously. Don’t bring up your kids around this childish douchebag.

StopStartStop · 19/05/2023 13:29

I know he wouldn't go there with her physically coz she is the complete opposite of what he likes in a woman particularly in terms of morals

Wrong. Incorrect. Just plain foolish to claim that.
He's in her. Has been for ages.
Sorry, it's harsh, but you already know. You know.

Betting his 'breakdowns' happen whenever you might be gaining some independent thought.

Stop talking to him about this - it's part of his game, he loves it. Women fighting for him, fighting over him. Oh, he's such a hot, sexy bloke they all want him. Women at home, women at work. And the one at home, he has power over her, because she has children. He can do what he wants.

Say nothing further. See a solicitor and start sorting out a life without him. Then tell him. And don't listen to his whining. Therapy won't help. He won't change. He likes having a mug at home and flexing his dick elsewhere.

How do I know? Years of reading Mumsnet.

Crikeyalmighty · 19/05/2023 13:30

@Sherrycat Yep in my case he was 40 and she was 21 and an assistant to us on a casual basis. A bit of a smiley , zen, yoga bunny type- and they were going off (for work) on band tours to interesting locations, whereas at that time I was a bit of a keep the home fires burning hoodie and jeans wearing flustered mum of a 7 year old and a business going very wrong. Exotic locations, flights, booze, away from day to day Groundhog Day stuff, lots of time sat around, what could possibly go wrong. !!!

Sherrycat · 19/05/2023 13:37

Crikeyalmighty · 19/05/2023 13:30

@Sherrycat Yep in my case he was 40 and she was 21 and an assistant to us on a casual basis. A bit of a smiley , zen, yoga bunny type- and they were going off (for work) on band tours to interesting locations, whereas at that time I was a bit of a keep the home fires burning hoodie and jeans wearing flustered mum of a 7 year old and a business going very wrong. Exotic locations, flights, booze, away from day to day Groundhog Day stuff, lots of time sat around, what could possibly go wrong. !!!

Are you still together?

orangegato · 19/05/2023 13:38

I’m sorry OP. I would forgive and forget, just this once. Zero tolerance from now on. I don’t think this is worth throwing your marriage away for.

Crikeyalmighty · 19/05/2023 14:01

@Sherrycat yes- it was something that had happened 10 years before I found out- I only found out because the stupid bugger had written poems/songs all about it and stuffed into a drawer he had forgotten about and I found them when having a 'declutter' - if I had found them at the time then yes I probably would have separated.

Nap1983 · 19/05/2023 14:17

Sorry this had happened. He will have slept with her 100% they always do. The EA angle is to make it seem not so bad.

FartSock5000 · 19/05/2023 15:06

@Daftpunk2 is this right?

  • He has lied and hidden things
  • He has been sneaky
  • He has minimised your feelings or told you your feelings are wrong
  • He has indulged another woman's attention and given her attention back
  • He leans on your for support during mental health breakdowns yet is well enough to go out gigging, attend other gigs and have double dates with this woman and her friends?

What exactly are you getting out of all this? You're the ONLY one putting any effort in and you have given him freedom to do whatever he wants while you juggle work, the household and the DC.

You do all of this and more and you do so when he has proven you can't even trust him.

He is taking you for an utter mug.

The moment a friendship with someone of the opp sex has to be hidden or excludes the husband/wife it has crossed into inappropriate and should be stopped. A real friendship is open, honest and respectful.

That's not what he has with her and you know it. It's an emotional affair and he does 100% fancy her and have a crush on her. He is protesting loudly to try to throw you off so you don't force him to stop. Even if you ask him to, he won't. He'll just get better at sneaking around.

Dump him. Not because of this but because he isn't giving you 50% back into the relationship. He is making you carry the full load and shows no signs of wanting to change or be better.

You can do better than him. There IS someone out there who will look at you like you are as delicious as a Magnum Almond ice cream and just adore you. THAT is what you deserve.

BTW my DH gigs around UK as well as attends them and promotes others. He has only crossed the line ONCE in 15 years and that was when he let some groupie get too friendly the year we married with messaging at all hours and posting on social media as if they had a special relationship and when I found a pic of him carrying her in his arms on a boozy post gig party I wasn't at, I laid it out for him and he blocked her immediately. THAT is respect. He chose me and my feelings first.

You deserve that too.

BanditsOnTheHorizon · 19/05/2023 15:11

I've been in your shoes op, I tried to make it work for 3 years following him 'cutting ties' he even got another job. But I found out 3 years later than he'd actually been physical with her. That was the end for me.

You e given him no end of chances to resolve this, and only when he realises he might lose you he cuts ties. To make it work he has an awful lot of work to do

Daftpunk2 · 19/05/2023 18:50

Bunnywabbity · 19/05/2023 13:02

So his mental health difficulties make him crave the affection of women in fishnets... Why isn't he craving the attention of Dave in accounts? Also handy that he had a breakdown when you and the children most needed his support.

Yes you are so right. He has other females from work he's not spoken to in same way so she must have had something that made him want to speak to her like that. All these comments are really opening my eyes and making me feel such a mug 😔 we seemed to try move forwards after it all (only found out a week or so ago) and he promised massive changes but I feel like things are slipping back and I'm sat here suffering and he's sat there feeling he's got away totally Scott free. But I guess that's my fault. Just easier said then done after 8 years and having kids

OP posts:
Thisisworsethananticpated · 19/05/2023 20:21

8 years is not that long , try 22 years baby !

but you have two kids from him , and that’s something you can hold onto x

wasn’t a complete waste of time

I don’t often think of posts honestly - but I was at the gym , and this post made me so angry 😡 for you op

he’s cheating , not hiding it even and fuxking lying and gaslighting you
hes a cunt of the highest order , sorry

its so appalling and one day you will have escaped this - and you will be happy again

Crikeyalmighty · 19/05/2023 21:36

@Daftpunk2 my issues were at the 8 years too lovely. I think it's the point when the 'is this it' sets in .

Triffiddealer · 19/05/2023 22:34

Reality is often brutally hard. But it’s real.

He doesn’t care about your feelings - only about his own.

He will do whatever he needs to do to satisfy his needs - you are not in the picture and he has no sense of loyalty to you.

If you question him, he will say whatever you want him to say. But his words mean nothing,

Do you deserve this? Do you want this? Can/Should you tolerate this - and at what cost?

He sounds unremittingly awful. Stay if you want, but it will cost you in self-esteem and joy.

If you want a paranoid, joyless life full of self-doubt, stay with him.

Time4achange2 · 19/05/2023 23:16

StopStartStop · 19/05/2023 13:29

I know he wouldn't go there with her physically coz she is the complete opposite of what he likes in a woman particularly in terms of morals

Wrong. Incorrect. Just plain foolish to claim that.
He's in her. Has been for ages.
Sorry, it's harsh, but you already know. You know.

Betting his 'breakdowns' happen whenever you might be gaining some independent thought.

Stop talking to him about this - it's part of his game, he loves it. Women fighting for him, fighting over him. Oh, he's such a hot, sexy bloke they all want him. Women at home, women at work. And the one at home, he has power over her, because she has children. He can do what he wants.

Say nothing further. See a solicitor and start sorting out a life without him. Then tell him. And don't listen to his whining. Therapy won't help. He won't change. He likes having a mug at home and flexing his dick elsewhere.

How do I know? Years of reading Mumsnet.

This!

Has he offered to change his job or office and promise an open phone policy or just told you he has cut contact with her? If the latter, do not believe him. He's got away with it so far, therefore will continue merely get more skilled at hiding it. She also sounds like a dog with a bone so will not merely disappear into the ether.

OP, do you really want to spend the rest of your marriage policing it? Ask him to leave and give you time to think about what you really want and get over the shock. Sound like you mean business. I expect being so motherly towards him he feels it is just something else in your life load you have to get over. Personally I would throw him out and grey rock him until you come to a decision. What a selfish, entitled, disrespectful disgrace of a man to do this especially after all you have been through. I'm so very sorry OP. You deserve so much more.Flowers