Should we separate

[lolasandy]

I wrote a really long post about this last night then thought, why am I posting about this on a forum, and deleted it. I think I just need some outside views though.

DH works long hours. Retail. Doesn't have set shifts on a rota as he is senior, but in retail senior doesn't mean paid well.

He likes to get to work at 6.30 to be ahead of things. Often gets back 6-6.30. Works 15 mins away so not a big commute.

We have 2 preschool DC both at nursery a couple of days. I work 4 extended days.

I do all drop off and pick ups. A relative has them one day. He has them another day when I work as he works all weekend.

He has very little to do with upkeep of house, garden, life admin. I do everything as well as having the kids 3 days a week (the 3 days I don't work) on my own.

I'm so fed up. His work days are so long which conversely mean my days a long a difficult getting the kids ready by myself and often to bed at the other end of the day.

He doesn't get paid by the hour or overtime. He just says the job demands this level of commitment. Apparently I don't understand. I did used to work in the sector and it is demanding which is why I moved. But I knew people who were parents and they had boundaries.

I have to have really strict boundaries at work, I do my extended hours just to the minute as I have to do the drop off and pick up. Other colleagues of mine work longer and I always feel a bit guilty but at the end of the day I do what I'm paid for and I have no choice. Why can't he develop that approach?

Apologies if this is a bit all over the place. We've had the argument about the above for the last few years since we first had DC. Nothing ever changes as he can't see a problem.

Maybe when I was on mat leave it was ok for me to be left 'holding the baby' but now Im back at work too. Im not career minded and wouldn't work or would work less if we could afford it but we only just get by. My salary is similar to his btw. Except I work only my hours. I WFH 2 days and in office 2 days.

It's not just about work though. His hours mean we have no weekends, no family time, no time to maintain the house. Just nothing. Im so fed up. Family have started to comment that he's never here and those that help me have started to feel begrudged they are here frequently and he is not. I don't think he's ever going to change. I start to feel embarrassed about telling others how much he works because it's so ridiculous and he isn't a high flying or important (like a surgeon) type job.

I look at others who have normal family lives and I'm so jealous. I wanted a partner and we're not really anything any more. We never see each other. I don't think there is anyone else involved. He is genuinely just at work.

To all of this he just says nobody understands his job and the demands and I have unrealistic expectations of him. I have talked about wanting to separate as I feel like a single parent and he doesn't put up a fight.

It's just all very sad.

If you aren't happy and if he doesn't put up a fight when you mention separating, then I'd probably start the process and divorce him. If he isn't going to change, your situation won't either. You don't want to be unhappy for the next 20+ years.

The crux of the issue though is that he isn’t listening to you and responding to your needs. If you left your resentment of this would be significantly less.

This really is sad.

Is there something else going on with him? Why does he avoid his family, is he depressed or something, or just not bothered?

What was your relationship like before kids, what did you do together? Is there any prospect of trying to rebuild some of that?

It sounds like he is essentially a lodger in your home and if there is no way that can change then it sounds like you might as well separate. But it is sad. If he changed jobs and made more effort to spend time with you life could be very different.

Yes the crux is that he isn't listening. It's been going on for years and ebbed and flowed but his working hasn't really changed, it's more I've gone through phases where I shut up about it for a while and get on with things.

Recently we've been having lots of behavioural issues with one of the DC, my mum has been sacrificing a lot of time to help, bedtime etc. She shouldn't have to. I've had a bout of bad health unable to recover from covid properly. I feel much of this has been exacerbated by being run down and having little support from him.

Pre kids things were ok. He has always been very overcommitted to work but I suppose pre kids it doesn't flag up at much as you have mountains of free time and I was always happy to do my own thing plenty pre kids.

In terms of family he doesn't make much effort with his own. He would say otherwise but it's really the bare minimum. Looking back there were red flags about his selfishness but at the time just seemed like less than perfect incidents. Eg pre kids there was one of his family members milestone birthdays and we had to drive a long way and then drive back through the night because he wouldn't reorganise work. Others were staying for a social weekend.

He's never wanted to have Xmas with family because he's tired from work. Over the last few years I've put my foot down and we do. But he's not around much other than Xmas day.

I think left alone he'd literally do nothing. He's got more antisocial as time has gone on. It's made me be antisocial too but I'm trying to change that. Difficult when I have 2 kids in tow all the time of course. It's difficult to know how much of that is 'typical man' and how much is just ridiculous.

He doesn't really make much effort with me anymore. The intimacy has gone over the last year. He would say this is due to me not wanting to as I had a post partum issue which lasted a long time (tear which had to have repeat surgery and causes chronic pain). This is probably a compounding factor to it all, but I don't think is a key cause as the work and lack of time here has always be the main problem.

I have tried to ask about things like depression. He says not. He says he isn't really happy in his job but makes no effort to change. Here's been short phases of job hunting and he had an interview but didn't get it and has given up.

I am often looking for him and sending jobs, as well as writing the applications for him! I know that's ridiculous but I feel like if it could save the situation then it's worth it. But he doesn't have this same drive to find something else which makes me think deep down he doesn't want change.

"Not listening" so often means "not doing what I tell them I want them to do"

What's the point of you being together? Was he always like this?

@LadyGardenersQuestionTime yes I agree. And I think what I am asking him to do is not unreasonable or unrealistic. However I am made to feel like it is (by him)

The point of us being together is we have 2 small DC and I am trying my best to not loose them having both parents living with them, and a family unit, if it's at all possible. Maybe it's not. But I really want separation to be a last resort not the first option.

It sounds very very hard.

Unfortunately all the markers were there.

Selfish.
Only interested in himself.
Puts work first.

These things NEVER change when men have children.

Invariably they get worse.

I think you need to protect your health and need to plan on long term getting out.

If you separate, he is the type that would see his children for a couple of hours a fortnight, if that.

Do nothing for him goibg forward.

Stop laundry or food.

You need to do the least you can, to mind yourself.

This is very for you, but accepting your reality is best.

Perhaps you will have to stay put for a few years until the children are a bit bigger and they are at school.

Selfish men do not make goid fathers.

It just isn't in them.

They avoid being at home by working longer and take up hobbies like gold and cycling, anything to avoid family life.

From what you have said here he is prioritising his job above your relationship, your kids and your extended family. If it hasnt changed by now , in spite of all your efforts what timescale are you going to give him?
Life is too short.. if he is not present for you or the kids, why are you staying....?
He is selfish, neglectful and disrespectful.
So why ARE you staying?

It is very sad. He’s showing that his job means more to him than his family. The fact your little one is having problems and your mum is having to help with bed times, and your H still haven’t said “I need to change the way i work” is just dreadful.

I’ve been in your situation as DH has his own business and is a workaholic but when i finally gave him an ultimatum and said you either change the way you work or we are separating, he did change. I think you need to give your H a similar ultimatum.

So from what I'm reading I'm getting this

You would like hubby to work better hours ie 9 to 5 Monday to Friday and ideally spend the weekends as a family.

You'd also like him to be a bit more helpful around the house and more involved with the kids

You would also like him to listen to what you're saying

Feel free to correct if any of that is wrong

None of the above is unreasonable for you to ask or want.

I would try telling him one last time what you want and make it very clear it is make or break. He needs a different job. But in all honestly OP I've been through something similar and the crux of it wasn't the working hours or any of the rest it was that out relationship had ran the course and nothing we did was every going to change that permanently. You already feel like a single parent and that's the worst bit. Get all your ducks in a row whilst the kids are young, it's time to not put up and shut up but create a life for your happiness and the kids.

Nothing will change because everything is being done exactly as he likes it. You dont get what you want because you having what you want is of no interest to him. It won't change because he doesn't care about you; it's not about behaviours, it's about the fact that he only cares about himself.

Thanks for the replies. I am not expecting him to work 9-5 Monday to Friday or completely move job and sector as I appreciate that expectation would be unrealistic.

I accept he may not be able, or want to, change jobs. I accept he works every Saturday, Friday late night, some Sundays. Every bank holiday and the whole Xmas period besides Xmas day. I accept there are requirements for (unpaid) overtime every few weeks.

I think that's fairly understanding of me.

What I can't accept is 12 hour days every day, additional late nights to what was planned. Volunteering for most Sundays even though it's not contractually required.

I feel there is a middle ground between mon-fri 9-5 and working ALL the time. I could almost understand more of it were his own business. But it's not for anything.

Could he be doing this for his family? Is he trying to get promoted? Is he worried about losing his job? Perhaps not but it may not just be down to prioritising his job over family. Does he really enjoy working all Christmas every Bank Holiday?

His motivation is neither here nor there. He's not trying to work as a team or to even understand OP's feelings.

I could leave for a job on the other side of the world and earn tons of money for my family, but if I don't consult my partner first, it's not a healthy way to go about it.

Is he actually at work?? he is bringing no extra income to the family home yet works very long days, for what?

My ex husband was barely at home, told me he was working but the truth was...he did not enjoy family life with me and was likely cheating.

@Panama2 no I don't think so. He's not well paid and doesn't seem driven by salary. Doesn't ever push himself forward or ask for more money. There has been instances where he's been moved role to more responsibility with no pay rise and hasn't spoken up. This has made me lose some respect for him.

I may feel different if he were the main earner and I could sit back slightly from work and was at home doing everything. However, I earn a similar amount and and drowning in stress from my 4 day extended hours job, where I am solely responsible for a large function. I can never give any extra as I am tied to the childcare responsibilities. I don't really want to give extra but that's not the point, I have no choice about my working hours whereas he seemingly does. I appreciate I work in a different sector which is 'office hours' but it's still demanding.

@safetyfreak I am sure he is at work which is the very sad thing. When he is not at work he is stressing about work, making work calls, etc. I have often checked his phone and there is nothing on there. I hear him making work calls and talking about when he was there til x time last night etc so I'm sure it is legit. In a way I wish he was cheating and it be an easy clear cut decision to separate then.

I do think the other point is true, that he doesn't enjoy family life. It is difficult at the moment esp with DCs difficult behaviour (awaiting assessment for ASD) but not being here I think worsens things, as I am able to cope less and DC are becoming used to a one parent environment and don't know how to act when he is here.

My exh was like this; sounds almost exactly the same. He ended up having an affair, during which I discovered that he'd been up to that sort of thing for a while. He was mainly working, though. His family were high-flyers and I think he always felt like he had to prove something. Also poorly paid, but he could go on about his long hours and it sounded impressive.

In retrospect I think my issue was not necessarily being like a 1950s housewife while also working full-time. It was his total lack of recognition that that was what was going on; he was not in the slightest bit apologetic about us having no family life, he never acknowledged what I was doing or showed any appreciation for my parenting. Looking back now the children are adults, their hobbies, skills and even the jobs they are entering have all come from the effort I put in, but my role was totally undervalued.

Have you considered couples counselling? I didn't do it, but I think it would have helped as my exh valued expert opinions and might have listened to someone else. I was always waiting for some promised time when my exh would have less work/would work nearby and come home earlier. It never came. I should have done something earlier.

Unfortunately there are people (both men and women) who are fundamentally unsuited to family life. And it's very unfortunate that often this only becomes apparent once the children have arrived.

For women, the urge to have children often overrules this unsuitedness. If I'm honest, I'm one of these people. I desperately wanted a child, but once I had the care of one, I realised I actually wasn't brilliant or a natural. Luckily my H was a SAHD.

But despite my inherent selfishness, I did not abdicate from my family duties by working every possible hour. I put in those hours of bath and bed routines, weekends out, family trips etc, because I loved my son and I knew he needed both of us.

It does not sound like your H has the slightest interest in doing this, sadly.

How would things work financially if you split? Have you looked at UC top up, what maintenance he'd pay?

Thanks @80s I'm sorry you went through that. I feel like that is a really accurate description.

When we are discussion (or me telling him not responding) I will list the things I do and he doesn't tune in. I constantly try and make sure the kids are well fed with decent food, that the house is half decent cleanliness wise, I sort all their hobbies, arrangements for nurseries, parties, appointments, etc etc.

Not only does he not tune in when it's pointed out but he never points it out or acknowledges it himself. He never says 'hey I'll do this so you can have a break'.

In fact if I suggest I take the dog for a walk on a rare occasion he is here (which would be partly for me and partly for the dog that he never walks) I get a bit of resistance about leaving him on his own with the kids. He doesn't refuse or say anything specific but manages to make me feel guilty somehow for doing absolutely anything away from the house. I don't have any hobbies, time with friends or go to anything that doesn't involve the kids. I don't even get my hair done because finding the time would be too challenging unless I took the kids with me. He doesn't do hobbies or friends either but to me that's because of his working hours. Why should his insane hours limit my life so much?!

Even though modern society has advanced slightly, some men can still draw on that image of the nagging wife constantly whinging about little unimportant things while the hard-working man does the real heavy work. It keeps the man feeling strong and valuable, but at a huge cost, as neither of them is happy.
In the end neither of them appreciate one another. And as you say, the wife and children get so used to being in a single-parent household that when the man does come home, he doesn't fit into the routine anywhere and becomes even more of an outsider.

In any relationship, it always helps if you can approach the other person from a position of compassion, trying to understand why they are doing what they do, speaking to them kindly rather than accusingly; not just talking about their faults but praising their good points, too. Hard to do when it's one-sided, but worth a go at least - they might even mirror it back to you.

Your posts are solely about this man- he says, he thinks, he does, his failure to parent and be a husband, his job.

What about you? What do you want your life to be? What are your goals and hopes for your kids? Is it good for them to have a man sometimes in their house who isn’t interested in them? it’s clear the man doesn’t give a shit about any of you and sees you an domestic object to run the house and raise his kids , as your kids watch this and learn. Without him sleeping in the house (since that’s all he does-no contributing to the running of the house) you’d have less to do, not having him dragging you down, he’d have to parent his kids.

He thinks more about his job than his family. You either carry on, or end it.

he’d have to parent his kids
When I did split up with my ex, we had to decide who'd live where. It was obvious to both of us that it would have to be me doing the parenting, as my ex would not take responsibility for the children. If, say, I had moved out, the children would simply have been alone until he came home at 9 pm. So we continued as before, except that my ex did not come home in the evening. He moved into a tiny bachelor flat. There was no less parenting for me; he saw them once a week for a few hours.
It was, however, much less stressful. And for those couple of hours a week, the children did get to go out and do something with their dad, concentrating on them. It was more than before.
The fact that I was no longer officially waiting for him to come home also meant that I organised more things for my own pleasure; going out, meeting people, doing sports.