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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

My DC don’t want to see their Dad anymore.

74 replies

Whattod · 14/05/2023 20:25

In a really tricky situation. DC are 11, 12 and 13 and don’t want to see their Dad anymore. We separated 7 years ago and he moved straight in with someone he’d just met within weeks of our split and her 2 DC. They live in a very small 2 bedroom house so there’s no space for DC to sleep over. They did sleep over after we initially split for a couple of years but it reached a point where DC were just so upset every time they left and returned home, it didn’t seem worth it. When they stayed over they had to sleep on blankets on the floor because they had no spare room or beds for them too so that was an issue. They never wanted to go even then but I always thought a relationship with him was important so made them go. I asked him regularly to try getting a bigger house so they could stay over but it’s never been a priority for him, they’re still in that house even though her DC are now 11 and 15 and different sexes…

Since lockdown, time with him has dropped down to EOW for a few hours. DC are now protesting every single time they have to go and asking why I’m making them go. There’s no court order in place and ex wouldn’t go down that route because of funds. Even if he did, I’m sure a court would take DC’s POV into consideration but I just want them to have a relationship with him so I find it very sad.

Reasons they don’t want to go: they never actually do anything or go anywhere, they just sit around in his house watching TV or playing games. He doesn’t feed them adequate food and the food he does give them is ‘horrible’ (lunch tends to always be a sandwich, a biscuit and a piece of fruit then tea is most often a tiny bit of chicken and a few vegetables). They return home starving every time so I have to feed them. If he does take them anywhere (rare), it’s just to walk around shops for hours not buying anything. The only things they do buy are for themselves or her children, never buy DC anything so they’re essentially dragged around shops to watch them buy things for her children. His reason for not taking them anywhere is that he can’t afford it but then he does weird things like taking them to shops this weekend to waste £100 in a shop on absolute crap (nothing for DC obvs).

Their relationship with his partner is also tricky. She’s very different to me, she shouts and swears a lot which DC have never liked. When they were younger and stayed over she used to get very angry at them and aggressive over things like getting upset because they missed me. She isn’t the most pleasant of people tbh. They don’t mind her children nowadays so much but didn’t get on when they were younger so that was another cause of conflict.

I’m not really sure what to do because they’re all saying it’s shit boring at his house and they don’t want to travel there every other weekend just to sit there bored and that they don’t get the point in going. Apparently he doesn’t talk much to them either, doesn’t ask how they’re doing etc and they do literally just sit there watching TV or playing games for a few hours not really being fed then come home. I’m thinking about asking him if we can all meet up and discuss it because DC aren’t comfortable enough to tell him how they feel, is this a good idea? I feel bad making them go when they dislike it so much.

OP posts:
WheelsUp · 15/05/2023 11:21

It sounds like your kids would see their dad if their dad put a little more effort /thought into their time together. (I don't mean money necessarily but some attention would be good) Dad is the one who isn't coming up with a better quality solution so is responsible for the breakdown here. I don't blame your kids for being thoroughly sick of sleeping on the floor and not being given enough food etc and wouldn't make them go for so long.

lunar1 · 15/05/2023 11:23

They are all old enough that courts would listen to their wishes. I would ask them if they would be willing to see him alone for a few hours and then put the ball back in his court.

If he doesn't want to do that, it's his responsibility for losing contact with his children.

purpleboy · 15/05/2023 11:24

I hear you op it's so hard.
My DDs dad was similar, moved into a house where there was no room for DD, had more children. The difference was they took her out every weekend....to the pub, then the new GFs mum would pick them up and take them back to hers for the evening.
He never saw her on her own, always had GF and kids in tow. She was desperate for his attention but eventually she got fed up and stopped seeing him, they didn't speak for about 4 years during, GCSEs, covid (she has asthma) 18th Bday, A Levels, driving test, all the big things he missed out on.
They've recently got back in touch, and he's asked her to be a bridesmaid at his wedding 🙄 she has got a great job abroad and when she told him his response was "well done, but the important question is, are you coming to the wedding"
She has decided not to come back for it as now again she is seeing where she is on his list of priorities.

Anyway my point is to just be led by your children and support them through whatever they want, they might go back and forth with the relationship, but you'll be there to help and support them through it.

womanwithissues · 15/05/2023 11:30

It's very hard to be put in this position as a mother. My ex still blames me for his relationship with his kids failing. Your ex will possibly blame you. But he and his partner are responsible for their choices and their behaviour. Your kids are miserable going. Listen to them. It doesn't need to be the end of their relationship with their dad. That's up to him. Not you.

PimpMyFridge · 15/05/2023 11:33

It all sounds really sad. Your poor DC deserve so much better. 😪

However, the single aim and goal of them going to him and spending time there is so that they have a relationship with him. Unfortunately this is not the effect it is having as he sabotages the beautiful potential that opportunity offers by being disinterested, disconnected, unengaged and having computer unrealistic expectations of what unwelcoming gestures he can expect them to tolerate blindly in the name of 'time with dad'.

So I think you should validate how your children feel and support their choice.

You can also discuss with him how you have expended lots of effort in persuading them to cooperate with the arrangement so far and making this opportunity happen regularly from a practical point of view, but as the goal of them having a relationship with them is, if anything, being undermined by his response to that opportunity, you don't intend to put any more precious time or effort into it.

Tell him, you dearly wish the children had a good relationship with him but you can't make that happen without a corresponding mutual wish from his side showing through in words, thought or deeds. Tell him that anything he'd like to do to enjoy a positive relationship with his children you will fully endorse and support and he should let you know what that is if he wants that.

Ball in his court, children's entirely understandable feelings respected, their perpetual disappointment curtailed and a chance for more joy to come into their lives in the form of spending their time on more rewarding pursuits ushered in.

Thesharkradar · 15/05/2023 11:42

What's a horrible lazy selfish man he is 🤬
please stop sending your children there to be insulted by him.
I expect his current partner is controlling things and gives him grief if he is nice to his own children .....but he's putting up with this!
I would just forget he exists, write him out of your life make an effigy of him put it in a miniature coffin and burn it.
Then get on with your life because he no longer exists.

OhwhyOY · 15/05/2023 11:48

I think the coffee shop idea is a good one, somewhere near his place so he can't make the excuse he needs his partner to drive him. You never know, maybe a conversation where they say how they're feeling might shake him out of his current complacency and make him make a bit more effort. It's worth a try isn't it? Also could his partner drop him off somewhere sometimes where your DC could meet him just them whilst she goes elsewhere? Perhaps you could suggest the DC come up with ideas of things they'd like to do within a low budget/free, if ex isn't good at planning? That way if he still doesn't bother then at least you know you and DC have done everything you could. If they don't want to go any more after that he will have no one but himself to blame.

Quitelikeit · 15/05/2023 12:27

If my kids came home and said they were starving every single week I’d be on the phone ?

Why haven’t you told him this? They sure starving? They are scared of his partner?

How comes you haven’t said they’re bored can you take them out? Or look they find coming to you uncomfortable, feel like an inconvenience and are basically not keen on coming can you see them on your own for a couple of hours each week?

The woman has made it perfectly clear that your kids should not start to feel comfortable in her home!

im assuming he pays you maintenance?

greyhairnomore · 15/05/2023 12:33

I wouldn't be sensing them anymore.
Just interested though , how do you know how much they earn and details of their outgoings ?
I hope he pays maintenance?

fdgdfgdfgdfg · 15/05/2023 13:56

Op, you do realise that children aren't idiots don't you? They're perfectly capable of understanding that if they don't go to their Dads then they won't see their Dad, and that they won't have much of a relationship going forwards. These aren't toddlers, they're (nearly) teenagers.

They can see better than you that their Dad is a shit father. They're making a choice based on that information that they don't want to spend time with him. They're not going to blame you when they don't have that relationship in years to come. They may well blame you for forcing it and making them spend time with people who don't give a shit about them every weekend though.

Quitelikeit · 15/05/2023 14:35

The thing is the step mothers sounds horrendous!

a small piece of chicken and some vegetables

honestly it seems dreadful

imagine going somewhere that you knew you were not wanted!!!

TBH you can’t complain about them having a tv and a switch! They do go to work afterall

please don’t send them this week if they don’t want to go then don’t force them

SunThroughTheCloudsAt6am · 15/05/2023 15:26

This sounds so like my situation (well, except my ex stuffs them with takeaway). They just sit in the house playing console - which is just boring after a while.

My line in the sand has always been that I will never force them to go - a little gentle persuasion is as far as I am willing to stretch, but if they say no, then it's a no. Even though yes, I would appreciate some time when I'm not solely responsible for them!

Because you do get out what you put in. Mine can't even be bothered to message them in the intervening fortnight, so funnily enough, he's not the first person they think of when they've got something exciting to tell to someone either.

Crunchingleaf · 15/05/2023 16:08

My own eldest has a father who never ever puts DC needs above his own. At 13 DC doesn’t want to see his father much as a result. DC wants a relationship with his dad, but he also finds it really difficult to be around him. We are now going through court process about it.

Your Ex doesn’t put your children first. He doesn’t give them his time, allows his partner to shout at them, doesn’t provide for their needs like a bed and full meal. Honestly, do you think this is good for the children. They get to witness how little they matter to this man EOW. You are not stopping contact or going NC here. You Ex’a terrible excuse for parenting is hurting the children. It was up to him to nurture his relationship with the children, instead they have had 7 years of being an afterthought.

contrary13 · 15/05/2023 17:36

Your children might be young, @Whattod - but they're not daft, surely? I'm pretty sure that they'll have friends whose fathers might not live with them, but who prioritise them and ensure that their time together is fun and enjoyable. Or they'll know children who don't see their fathers at all - but who are perfectly okay with that fact. Consequently, your children will, albeit from the perspective of adolescents, have worked out how little they actually matter to their father... and they are all but begging to have someone (you) step in and advocate for them. Of course they don't really understand the long-term effects upon them of cutting him out of their lives - but they understand that they don't matter to him as much as material items and his new family do.

Think how much that must be hurting them. Think how damaging that must be to already fragile and burgeoning minds/self-esteem. They know that their father has replaced their mother with his girlfriend, and them with her son and daughter. They're hurt, I daresay, more than they are bored - and the longer this goes on for, the more that you "encourage" them to put up with being treated as though they're immaterial nuisances by their own father, the more resentful, hurt, and damaged they will become.

My youngest (DS:18) has a similar poor excuse for a father, so I can relate to what you're saying about not wanting them to cut their own noses off... but I said, from the moment he was born, that my son was the one with the right to have a relationship with his father, and that if he ever said to me that he didn't want to spend time with him/his extended family - that I would heed what he was saying, and support him. His father left when he was 4, and the once brilliant father to my two children... turned into a virtual stranger to us all. My daughter hasn't spoken to him for 14 years now (her choice), whilst my son - who desperately wanted a relationship with his father, because they'd always been close, always had their "Boy Days" together... tried his best to stick it out. The one-on-one attention stopped the day my ex walked out. He had a girlfriend and a newborn to focus on, our son together would just have to fit in with the baby and stepmother's needs/plans...!

Except for periods of time, he refused to. The hurt and the anger that he felt at the situation coalesced into a desire not to see his father and his new family - and I listened to what he was saying, explained to him in age appropriate ways what that would mean, reminded him that although his Dad loves him, he doesn't have to jump through hoops just to please him, that I would say "not today; maybe next time!". I think the longest period of time my son refused to see his father was 6 months. Yes, I daresay that it hurt my ex - but he's a grown man, who made the choice not to prioritise our son, who didn't ask to be made to feel like shite by one of the two people who ought to be prepared to move heaven and earth to support him in growing into a decent adult, himself. Besides, as the resident parent, I bore the brunt of the anger and the pain my ex caused both of my children to feel - the rage that consumed them when he bleated on about how unfair it was to him, because his young children were whining about where their older brother was... Well, frankly, that wasn't our responsibility or, indeed, our problem (I seem to recall either using or thinking "suck it up, buttercup!" an awful lot round about the time my son was 13-ish...), and I would be damned if he tried to force the responsibility of his hurt feelings onto our children's shoulders quite frankly!

My son turned 18 last year, and a few weeks ago told me that his father "is sad that [they] don't have a close relationship - but I told him that's the consequences he gets to deal with, for all the bad choices he's made over the years about [son and his older sister]!". For the last couple of years, my son's had a tenuous sort of relationship with his father - he'll see him here and there, get pissed off about something or other (a month or two back, he was furious about the fact that his younger sister's "very unhappy at school" and their father/her mother aren't listening to what she's trying to tell them, for example, whilst this week it's the ludicrous decision to be angry that his father had the audacity to pretend to be John Travolta in public!) and not see them for a few weeks. There's never been any one-to-one father/son time, since the day my ex walked out and the younger sister was born (the same day...), which I know hurt my son - and still does/always will, I suspect. He's old enough to advocate for himself, now, though so although I am always around to listen/explain/reassure... I don't get involved past reminding him that despite it all, his Dad does love him (he's just clueless about showing any of his children this fact),

Because I listened to what my then-young child was telling me, because I supported him in finding the ability to start advocating for himself, by doing that for him, because I reminded him that it's okay for him to take some time out for his own sake... although it will, sadly, never be the pally/close father-and-son relationship that my ex foolishly seems to believe is his right - they do have a relationship. And both of my children are confident enough to know that no one has the right to treat them like they're shite, don't matter, aren't shiny and new enough.

Listen to your children, OP. To what they're actually trying to say, without yet having the toolkit to express themselves. A summer off doesn't mean that they'll never see their father again! And if he's any sort of an actual father to them, then he'll understand and put their need for a break above what he wants!

Flowers
Pusheengirl2023 · 15/05/2023 18:08

womanwithissues · 15/05/2023 11:30

It's very hard to be put in this position as a mother. My ex still blames me for his relationship with his kids failing. Your ex will possibly blame you. But he and his partner are responsible for their choices and their behaviour. Your kids are miserable going. Listen to them. It doesn't need to be the end of their relationship with their dad. That's up to him. Not you.

This woman 👏🏻

Tinkerbyebye · 15/05/2023 18:17

Don’t make them go, and explain to you ex exactly why they won’t go, ie there is no room for them, his partner makes them feel unwelcome, they do nothing, he spends money on his partners children but not his, he doesn’t feed them enough and the rest

then it’s up to him to change, or not

BurbageBrook · 15/05/2023 18:49

It's so weird that you're making them go. They hate it, it's a toxic environment, and they are old enough to make their own decisions on this. Of course don't make them go!

BurbageBrook · 15/05/2023 18:51

And yes they probably WILL resent you for this! I would do at their age and I would remember it as an adult and be perplexed by it. Sure, they have one crappy and useless parent, which is obviously worse. But for the good parent to facilitate that contact is going to definitely emotionally affect a child as well.

Nettie1964 · 26/07/2023 15:14

Your ex sounds completely useless. Let your children lead the way. Don't badmouth him. IF they want to reconnect when they are older they can. Just try to make sure they don't think his behaviour and indifference are their fault, kids always find a way to blame themselves.

ohdamnitjanet · 17/09/2023 15:19

They are quite old enough to decide not to go. And you are old enough to tell him exactly why. They have a miserable pointless time and he will regret it enormously when he’s fucked up his present set up, but hey ho.

HowcanIhelp123 · 17/09/2023 15:27

On one hand they're still pretty young so instinct is needs to come through you, on the other if they're wanting to make the adult decision not to see dad any more they should have that conversation with him themselves in their own words.

Have they ever actually said to him 'dad, the way step mum treats mum really upsets us and makes us uncomfortable. We really don't like seeing her and going forward we only want to see you, not her or her kids' and request that he meets up with them by himself for contact time outside of his house. If he says no they need to tell him his behaviour and lack of prioritising them means they dont want to see him. Maybe hearing it from them will kick him up the ass. Maybe he won't be bothered. But you're at a difficult point where they're still kids, but you need to start respecting their choices and they're dealing with a very adult thing in choosing their relationship with dad.

Gettingbysomehow · 17/09/2023 22:17

Why are you so obssessed about them having a relationship with their father? It shouldn't be you that is worrying about this it should be him.
He clearly doesn't care and makes no effort so stop forcing them to go. If they want a relationship with him when they are old enough to make up their own minds then that's fine.
My ex showed zero interest in DS when he was a child and moved abroad.
DS sees him occasionally now he is grown up and I don't get involved in their relationship because it's none of my business.

Jamjaris · 03/01/2024 22:55

I would do as your kids want, I wouldn’t push a relationship onto my kids where the parent is so disinterested.
You might find in a few years they ask to see him again but let your children decide either way

Zanatdy · 04/01/2024 08:40

I’d let him stop going. My DD (15) stopped going to her dads when he moved in a new woman and her 15yr old DS. I don’t blame her as she met these people twice before they moved in

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