My DC don’t want to see their Dad anymore.

[Whattod]

In a really tricky situation. DC are 11, 12 and 13 and don’t want to see their Dad anymore. We separated 7 years ago and he moved straight in with someone he’d just met within weeks of our split and her 2 DC. They live in a very small 2 bedroom house so there’s no space for DC to sleep over. They did sleep over after we initially split for a couple of years but it reached a point where DC were just so upset every time they left and returned home, it didn’t seem worth it. When they stayed over they had to sleep on blankets on the floor because they had no spare room or beds for them too so that was an issue. They never wanted to go even then but I always thought a relationship with him was important so made them go. I asked him regularly to try getting a bigger house so they could stay over but it’s never been a priority for him, they’re still in that house even though her DC are now 11 and 15 and different sexes…

Since lockdown, time with him has dropped down to EOW for a few hours. DC are now protesting every single time they have to go and asking why I’m making them go. There’s no court order in place and ex wouldn’t go down that route because of funds. Even if he did, I’m sure a court would take DC’s POV into consideration but I just want them to have a relationship with him so I find it very sad.

Reasons they don’t want to go: they never actually do anything or go anywhere, they just sit around in his house watching TV or playing games. He doesn’t feed them adequate food and the food he does give them is ‘horrible’ (lunch tends to always be a sandwich, a biscuit and a piece of fruit then tea is most often a tiny bit of chicken and a few vegetables). They return home starving every time so I have to feed them. If he does take them anywhere (rare), it’s just to walk around shops for hours not buying anything. The only things they do buy are for themselves or her children, never buy DC anything so they’re essentially dragged around shops to watch them buy things for her children. His reason for not taking them anywhere is that he can’t afford it but then he does weird things like taking them to shops this weekend to waste £100 in a shop on absolute crap (nothing for DC obvs).

Their relationship with his partner is also tricky. She’s very different to me, she shouts and swears a lot which DC have never liked. When they were younger and stayed over she used to get very angry at them and aggressive over things like getting upset because they missed me. She isn’t the most pleasant of people tbh. They don’t mind her children nowadays so much but didn’t get on when they were younger so that was another cause of conflict.

I’m not really sure what to do because they’re all saying it’s shit boring at his house and they don’t want to travel there every other weekend just to sit there bored and that they don’t get the point in going. Apparently he doesn’t talk much to them either, doesn’t ask how they’re doing etc and they do literally just sit there watching TV or playing games for a few hours not really being fed then come home. I’m thinking about asking him if we can all meet up and discuss it because DC aren’t comfortable enough to tell him how they feel, is this a good idea? I feel bad making them go when they dislike it so much.

An 11 and 12 year old should not be sharing a bed. End of.

Thank you, this is how I feel about it. I don’t want to be the one who effectively removes a relationship with their Father hence why it’s such a difficult situation. I‘m not trying to torture them by sending them and I’m not doing it for ‘respite’ either because it’s literally 6-7 hours EOW which I can live without. It’s just because I don’t think they’re old or mature enough to fully comprehend what it means to remove their Dad from their lives.

I also don’t think they dislike him or don’t want to spend time with him, they just want to do things with him rather than sitting bored at his house every time. I just can’t believe he can’t source the funds to take them somewhere EOW. He lives in a big city too so if he used his imagination and did a bit of research, he could easily find cheap/free things to do just so they left the house. They’d love to just spend time with him as well without his GF and her DC but he’s made it clear he won’t do this.

I didn’t do it to torture them.

He wasn’t a bad Father prior to our split and I was keen for them to maintain a decent relationship with him, I felt it was important for their overall well-being (and still do). He has just made strange decisions which I have no control over and in order for them to have a relationship with him, they have to live alongside his life choices. I still don’t think he’s a bad person, he’s just not very bright and has made dodgy life choices which are affecting our DC.

I don’t think he would be bothered to take them out for the day in order to see them because he will blame not being able to drive and also not having the money. If he used his imagination he could find inexpensive ways to pull this off and could use public transport too but he won’t. He isn’t much of a planner, he seems to live a day to day existence so it would be too much of an ask for him to find ways to spend time with them in advance. He also has spare money to splurge on random bullshit for his DP and her DC but claims not to have any to spend on our DC which they now obviously notice.

dont force them, they are old enough to have their own views. He might be more successful asking them to go cinema or out for a burger rather than overnights. I’m sure they will spend time with him for something fun, but again that is his choice to do this.

He’s a terrible father. He doesn’t even feed them properly or talk to them let alone anything else. Maybe they don’t want to cut him off but they definitely want him told that they don’t like being with him because he treats them badly. And 11 is far too young to take that on, sorry Op, it’s for you to address.

OP, l didn't mention anything about anyone being tortured, but conditions sounded miserable they didn't want to go for the reasons you stated. And considering what you described l don't blame them! Its not their fault your ex is badly organised and selfish, and yet you are still making excuses for him! Your children are being treated in an inferior way to th OWs kids and they know it. The comparison will build resentment and damage their self esteem and they do not deserve that. Listen to what they are telling you and let your feckless ex find ways to visit and show his interest, even if he has to take the bus or train. You say he won't use public transport so no doubt you deliver them to him! What a Prince he is!

I don't believe a family have two teenagers of opposite sex sharing a bedroom through choice. They are obviously skint.
I think they are too young to decide whether they want to go or not. I would make them go but say when they are 14 they can decide themselves,and I would tell him that when they hit 14 I won't make them go anymore if they don't want to.
And a sandwich, fruit and biscuit is not a horrible lunch.

If they don't want to go I wouldn't insist (and my DD is 12). You can clearly tell him why they don't want to go and on what basis they would like to see him. Perhaps if he came alone to take them out for the day?

It is your job to advocate for your kids and to support their choices. In my case it was the in-laws. DD doesn't like spending a week with the in-laws for a variety of reasons and I had to tell her Dad that she'd happily visit for a weekend but that if his summer holiday plans were to visit the in-laws again for a week this year that DD wouldn't come because it was miserable last year. He didn't like it but he doesn't have to. It's a bloody nuisance for me to have to sort an extra week childcare over the summer but such is life.

Your kids are tweens/ teens. Old enough to have a rational discussion. Call a family meeting (the four of you that is) and hash out what they want and what the possible consequences of that are.

Do they want no relationship with their dad, would they be open to seeing him if circumstances change. Would they like to tell him themselves or for you to intervien. Etc etc etc. What will the next 2-3 months look like, best possible scenario and worst possible outcome.

You have the experience to point out where their wants might lead to and might make them think about if they are happy with essentially no contact or would this be a way of galvanising their dad into action.

As long as you are realistic about what might happen then you are protecting them and yourself from future hurt while also giving them the control and autonomy they are obviously seeking to change an unpleasant situation.

Sounds like you’re flogging a dead horse.

I definitely wouldn’t make them go again

They are far too young to cut off their dad. That is a major decision.
You don't seem to accept he is skint and think he should just buy a bigger house and spend money taking them out that he does not have.

I disagree that 11 and 12 are not old enough not to decide to go as it depends on the individual child.

I've got friends whose 11-13 year olds decided they didn't want to see their other parent. Some had siblings who did while others as a group didn't. So those who didn't want to see their other parent didn't. Some later changed their minds, while others haven't years later.

As @Luckydog7 said get them to have a discussion on what they want and individually have a say, however they need to be the ones to tell their father they don't want to see see him and why. (As they are acting as a group it is actually easier for them.) This is because it is their relationship with their father not yours (you actually don't need to have a relationship with him) and they need to learn to speak up for themselves.

Oh and I'm surprised his partner hasn't kicked his behind out. He's clearly not paying for very much which is why they haven't moved.

If it went to court, at your DCs age, they would be given a say so if they don't want to go, I wouldn't make them.

The stated wish of all three your DC is that they don’t go to their dads anymore. Your DCs father has consistently demonstrated that his relationship with his DC is not a priority or of any particular interest to him. Why are you so invested in making the DC continue?

I completely understand why ou are trying to encourage the relationship but I think this is a mistake a lot of women fall into - they want their dc to have a relationship with their fathers but they forget that often the fathers aren't very good at being fathers and so the relationship is counterproductive.

I think your DC are old enough to have a say ins hat they do on the weekends so I think it's not unreasonable to say no, they won't be dong it. I mean, what about if they have parties or activities on - how is that handled currently or do they just have to skip it so they can sit at their dad's house bored?

I wholeheartedly agree that it shouldn't be forced, my DP has an incredibly difficult time with his ex, even now the DC are 15/17 she tries to insist on the rigid days that were put in place 7 years ago, obviously as teens they have their own lives and want to be flexible, one example is if they don't go with dad on say Sunday she refuses to provide their evening meal and he has to send his eldest £ for a takeaway as it's 'his day'
They're old enough your DC to make choices and tbf it sounds miserable and unlikely their dad will mind.

I have been in a similar position.

I have still encouraged visits and contact where possible.

No need to enforce overnight stays as the house is clearly unsuitable but they could meet him in McDonalds or go for a walk?

Going NC is a big, big decision and they are too young for it IMO. He may be crap but he's still their Dad.

I don't really understand - do you really believe it's better to have a crap dad than no dad? I feel like this is why so many people, women especially, land up in shitty relationships with men when they are adults "oh, well, he doesn't hit me and he is okay if I go out with my mum for lunch once a month so he's not all bad".

why is the bar set so low for men and fathers?

That's what family court believes. What are you supposed to do then?

But the DC are older now and have a say.

I've watched my nephew be let down and disappointed by his dad for years now. And SIL continues to do everything in her power to facilitate a relationship with a man who just isn't capable of being a good dad becuase he is extraordinarily selfish and lazy. And every time exBIL disappears for a while, Sil comments on how much calmer everyone is and how DN's teachers say he does better at school etc..... and yet, this ridiculous idea that a crap dad is better than no dad persists.

Of course a relationship with their father is better for the DC. But not if the relationship is bad becuase the father is lazy/selfish/abusive/etc

To posters saying he is skint so can’t afford to move house, this isn’t the case. Him and his DP live in a city where rent prices are low and they’re currently in council housing so rent is particularly low. They both work FT and bring in around 50k between them. She has 2 DC but one spends half the week with her Dad so only have one teen to pay for 50% of the time. They have money to splurge on random shite 24/7. They have every games console on the market for example and as I said before, when they do take DC out it’s to drag them around shops as they did this weekend and they spend hundreds on crap they don’t need. They went to a shop and bought a £30 Minnie Mouse rug for his DP for example.

They don’t need a £30 Minnie Mouse rug or every games console on the market or a 50inch TV as they have or even the brand new car they just got on Finance. They need to save their money for a deposit for a new house. Ex told me years ago they were offered a 3 bed council house but didn’t want to move into it because it was too far from her DC’s school, even though she drives. Moving so her DC can have separate bedrooms just isn’t a priority for them so moving in order to see our DC more definitely isn’t.

Apologies for the rant, I just want to highlight the fact he is not skint.

No, they still attend all other activities so if it falls on his day then he either doesn’t see them that weekend at all or he will see the other DC who aren’t going.

They both work FT and earn a very similar amount. Their outgoings are quite low because they live in a small council house in a city where rent is very low and one of her DC spends 50% of her time with her Dad so they only have one teen to pay for 50% of the time. I don’t know who contributes what to the household bills wise but I do know they spend money on a lot of crap they don’t need. It isn’t my business of course but I do know they have the money going spare to save for a rent deposit, they won’t do this though because they prefer buying random crap.

My DC are a little bit afraid of his partner I’d say. She shouts and swears a lot and is quite aggressive, not the sort of person I would want to be around either. I’ve encouraged them to ask to speak to him on his own in a different room or outside but they all say it’s awkward and they don’t want to. There don’t want to upset him either which I can understand.

I’m advocating for a relationship with him because I think they’re too young to fully comprehend what going NC with one parent would entail in the long term. I also think they quite like spending time with him, they just want to do things with him and they don’t want her to always be there either.

As pointed out, they aren’t skint and if they are it’s because they don’t manage their money well. Their outgoings are low and they earn 50k between them. They have enough money to save up for a larger house but don’t want to because it isn’t important to them. They have a PS4, Xbox, switch, switch lite, PC, brand new phones, 50inch TV, brand new car on finance etc so they have money to save for a rental deposit.

Also, I know it isn’t a horrible lunch but it isn’t particularly filling when you consider the fact they’re all the height of fully grown adults. Youngest is average height of a UK woman already and eldest is my height. I wouldn’t be filled up after that personally and I’m a normal weight. They don’t allow snacks for whatever reason which is fine but they then just feed them a tiny portion of chicken and veg for tea so I understand why they’re ravenous when they return home and I always have to cook them something.

If I ask why they don’t want to go it’s because they don’t really like his partner and they don’t want to sit in his house bored. It isn’t because they don’t want to have a relationship with him because he’s an awful person, none of them have ever said that. That’s why I don’t want them to cut him off. I think they’re too young to understand what it would mean to go fully NC with him.

I think next time they go I’m going to ask if we can all go to a coffee shop to chat about the situation so DC feel more comfortable discussing their feelings. They’re too afraid to talk to him on their own, they don’t want to upset him and find it awkward (which it is) and they don’t want his partner to be there so will ask if we can do it just us. I want to help them explain their feelings to him in an environment where they feel secure.