Wish I could be loved - is my mum a narc??

[Hellyaa]

Just needing a handhold. Felt quite spaced out today since I received an awful, cruel text from DM. Lots of swearing, she called me nasty names! I’m always being told how I should be grateful to her for how I am now. I often think to myself, actually it wasn’t you, I grew up surviving by myself, you worked shifts and were asleep in the day. From my childhood till now, I’ve been constantly criticised or belittled. I’m not supported emotionally by her, even my DF ignores me and sides with her.

If it’s not the cruelty, I then get the victimy part of her - ‘FGS I’m old now and I have had life far harder than you’. I can never ask her for help as she thinks I’m being ridiculous and that I need to focus my energy on DC and DH to get over ‘silly issues’.

I’m in emotional pain RN but also I’m feeling anger at her and then I feel guilty and sorry for her! Maybe it’s me that is the problem. Just wish she’d hug me and tell me I’m going to be okay. I don’t ask for much - that not hard from a parent is it?

I guess I’ll never have that though 😰.

I’m working on this in therapy but they’re away at the moment and I’m starting to think the therapy is not helping me. I’m in a loop of depression and feeling spacey. If that makes sense? Maybe not!

Sending you much ❤️ I know what you mean..I have no answers though.. its hard. Be kind to yourself. X

Thanks@ADHDGURL . I’m relieved that you replied, I’ve felt quite out of sorts and seemingly have no one in RL to talk to (I have posted previously about DH behaviour)

How do you be kind to yourself when others are so cruel? A mother is supposed to love and nurture and instead I feel attacked by mine.

I think what you’re feeling is a normal part of therapy and healing. It’s really exhausting when everything comes to the surface and you become aware of it all. You sometimes feel worse before you start to feel better. Keep at it!

is your relationship with your parents adding anything to your life? (Doesn’t sound like it.) Look up “out of the fog.” And there’s lots of books on toxic parents. Susan Forwards toxic parents is also very helpful and recommended lots here.

its tough but you’re on the right track. You can do it

Thank you @Teaandsympathy I’ll have a look at those books although not I’m not feeling the energy to read following her sweary rant.

I couldn’t disconnect due to her relationship with DC. I would feel bad to, plus the DC love her. Guilt holds me back from going NC.

My mother was diagnosed as a narcissist and it’s not something I was ever able to reconcile with.

I was told that I should feel sorry for her because she did have a hard life and wouldn’t ever change. But at the same time I felt sorry for myself for not having a mother who could show me that she cared.

So I ended up flipping between the two feelings and I think that meant I could never accept how things were.

Im sorry to say that when she died suddenly from a stroke at 80 I was momentarily upset, but her death helped bring closure.

It also gave me a blue print on how to bring up my DD, by doing the opposite.

Big hugs op. Its not nice. My mother def displays those characteristics too. She ranted lately about the elderly. I said yep respect is 2 way. Sick it. Did you ever have counselling. I was told have better boundaries with her.

I’m in therapy but still just feel torn and worn out by her behaviour. She’s getting older but it hurts me that all I want is care and love, it always feels on her terms. Yesterday was a write off, I went to bed early as felt so low😰.

I appreciate your comments, I don’t feel so alone with having a mother like this.

I am mid 40s. Text book daughter of a narc mother. Overachiever, hyper-independent, anxious in relationships, unsure of what I wanted out of life, felt like I needed her approval on everything leading to shame and guilt about things I knew she wouldn’t approve of. In my 30s a counsellor asked me whether I’d considered going NC… I said no, the shame and guilt would be too much. I subjected myself to another 10 years of the same torment. This year, after a series of events where my mother failed yet again to give me the most basic level of emotional support you’d expect from any mother, I went NC. What a revelation! I don’t actually feel the guilt or shame I expected to. Rather just relief, acceptance and most of all peace and freedom to be myself.
My mother did a terrible job of parented me as a child… I’ve been on the back foot in terms of emotional development my entire life. It’s only now I’m starting to understand the importance of having emotionally available people in your life and not the conditional/transactional “love” I grew up with. I’m learning the skills I need now, open and clear communication, being vulnerable and NOT trying to control or manipulate others to create the external appearance of a happy life.
As an adult you can chose to detach from your parents. Now that I’ve done it myself I’m more and more aware of others who have done the same or dream of being able to. You are definitely not alone. Stay strong and do what is right for you. In my experience the fear of guilt or shame far exceeded the reality of it.

Oh darling your post made want to reach through the screen and give you a huge big cuddle and tell you what an amazing person you are.

I'm sorry you have such a Shit mum, you don't deserve that, no one does. Hope you feel a wee bit better today. ❤️

The space between fantasy and reality leads to depression. You have a fantasy that your mom will be that lovely cuddly mom your heart longs for. But the reality is that's never going to happen as she is not capable for whatever reason. Very consciously accept your mom is never going to change. Expect absolutely nothing from her and you won't be disappointed. There is a grieving in this but ultimately it will help you going forward. Ask her for nothing. Don't reply to those awful messages. Thus is not your fault...never was...never will be. The woman is capable of nothing.
In counselling things get worse before they get better. Keep going. But acceptance is the key..l believe. Mind yourself and mother yourself if that makes sense.

I remember your post about your husband and I am sorry you have so much on your plate right now. It really isn't surprising that you are feeling spacey and out of sorts with all of this coming at you, so don't beat yourself up about it.

I would recommend reading the Toxic Parents book - it really helped my cousin, whose mother (my aunt) was absolutely a narcissist. Keep working at things in therapy too - it's making you feel worse right now because you are actively facing up to and dealing with a lot of very awful things and that is hard, but it is better to deal than not to deal.

Being loved doesn't have to mean ties of blood. When you have worked through everything you will be a much stronger, wiser woman and you will be able to build yourself a family based on people who really deserve you in their lives.

Another one over here! Id fallen into a trap last weekend when I forgot what a narc my mum is.
Drove 80 miles to pick her up to take her to mine to watch the coronation. Immediately she is talking abt her hero Diana. No hello, no how are you. Just Diana.
She sits in my house just watching the TV. I try to encourage her to use the remote control. She gets angry. I make her lunch. She does a weird wash of her single plate over and over which prompts me to say 'put it in the dishwasher'
More talk of Diana. Talking abt her neighbours daughter whom she has idolised and pitched me against all my life. How wonderful she looks. How heartbroken she was when her marriage failed 6 years ago. She has been at this for 50yrs.
We take her out for dinner. V nice place. I then take her back to mine. She sits and we ask her if she wants a drink. No. She sits passively. Talks abt the Royal Family. Next day I drive her home via the supermarket. Take her to the pub. Get her lunch. She talks abt how her neighbours tell her how well my brother has done in life. She talks abt her vitriole for her family. She moans abt her neighbour.
I ask her 'mum did you have a nice weekend?' (Given Id driven her 300miles, spent a fortune and had zero acknowledgement')
Her reply? She shrugged and said 'yeah it was fine'
I foolishly responded with 'oh ok what would have been better' and she shrugged again and said 'it was fine. Your DH is kind'
And she changed the subject to her neighbour who is having a baby.
I then responded again and said 'I think I have done a lot extra this weekend to make it nice for you'. Her reply ...'Yeah I am an not educated like you and dont have the verbal words'. She is educated. She has the words.
I left her home and burst out laughing at the responses. Im so over it all. She never acknowledges me. I was annoyed with myself for trying to force her to acknowledge me but I was able to get over it quickly this time. I was annoyed Id let my guard slip and Ive had to recalibrate it to visit her today and go back to the relationship which is me befriending her based 100% on her needs alone.

My mum doesnt use a mobile phone but Ive had years of her casting up mistakes Ive made months after but not at the time and getting v rageful about it. If I ever try to challenge her I get the 'I wish I could record you to listen to the lies you tell' so I dont challenge and just quickly finish the conversation.

This is it for me. I live with a serious illness which is never acknowledged by her but I gain points if I look nice. She is OTT about that and at the same time scathing about a neighbour with alopecia sending me a clear message 'no alopecia please'. Its so nasty. There is zero empathy coming my way. I know that but she shows huge over investment and sympathy to random neighbours who dont respond with the same level.

So this is just another perspective. I am in contact and it can be v draining but I have finally realised this is not about me AT ALL..

Just ensure you get support, help and compassion in other ways as it never going to come from your mum.

i have one of these you just have to let it go and accept they will never behave like a caring parent. Thinking about it only hurts you they don’t care about you do they?first time I got a compliment from mine was so shocked (was 32) only managed it twice . I got fed up so started to point out her own words and behaviour hadn’t spoken to me since it’s nice

It really doens't matter her diagnosis or lack of one. She is abusive.

Karyl McBride is wonderful on this - look at her book "Will I Ever Be Good Enough", which is all about the mother-daughter dynamic - and yes she does talk about narcissists. But please understand, you do not need a diagnosis to save yourself and your children from her by going No Contact.

I chose not to, as I wanted to see my Dad. One day my son said, 'I don't like Nanny' I asked him why. 'I don't like how she treats you.' Never assume love on the part of your children. And if they do love her - why set them up for seeking love back like you are? If she gives them love, it is because she wants to rub it in to you. "Look! I love your children! It was never me being an unloving mother - it was always you being an unlovable child!" She'll soon enough begin abusing them like she abuses you.

As others have said, she isn't capable of love, and so to expect it of her is like expecting a crocodile to roll over and be petted like a kitten. IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU!

You are lovable, and she is incapable of love. She is the 'faulty' human, not you.

I barely see mine even though she lives very close by. Maybe build up gradually, seeing her less and less? I really feel for you 😞 I have a loving husband and two children which I think helps; my little unit is all that matters.

That’s interesting my son also said that ‘mummy I don’t like the way grandma treats you’ he was 8 children
are very perceptive

OP as @ChristmasFluff says - it's not about you.
My Mother was a person who could only manage (just) by having a scapegoat.
That was me. It took me a long time to accept that she was the person who had birthed me but could never be a 'Mother' to me. It's a long hard road to that.

For some, going NC helps. I had long periods of that. My Mother died last spring. It hasn't brought closure (she sprung some last minute surprises) but it does mean I no longer have to worry what she might do next.

Some people are unable to parent, some are unable not to visit their trauma on others. It sounds like your 'Mother' is an example. Often you can end up with partners who are the same. Keep going with the therapy - it can be very helpful.

Sorry for what you're going through OP. Its so hard to come to terms with knowing your "mother" only "loves" you on her terms & is perfectly OK to say horrific things to you if she feels like it, and you're supposed to just accept whatever she does, after all "she's your mother" :(

I've been there, currently in therapy. Haven't seen mine in nearly 2 years now and life is so much more peaceful.

I've a library of books, Toxic Mothers, Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents, Daughter Detox and more which have all been helpful. But recently I have been listening to Insights podcasts which have been incredibly helpful and validating. This one from a week ago has a few similarities to your situation, if you're not up to reading at the moment you might find it helpful podcasts.apple.com/ie/podcast/in-sight-exposing-narcissism/id1613030538

Also look here for the Stately Homes thread which is a great place to vent and be supported.

Thank you all for your comments and insights and recommendations. I’m glad this space allows me to talk as I cannot in RL! I’ve felt incredibly low today watching the neighbours and people on Facebook celebrating Eurovision tonight. I couldn’t bring myself to watch it.

I’m a real sucker for punishment this evening as I rang DM as living with DH is slowly killing me too and I really prayed and hoped she’d understand. Firstly she asked me who I was talking about and then went, oh that’s a shame, how are the DC? Felt like such a punch!

I would never kill myself but the loneliness and isolation faced with her and EA DH is agonising. I have cut myself from others who I’m totally afraid to tell what’s going on. Plus they have their own loving families and friendship networks. Why would they want to help me?

I just feel like a heavy burden at the moment. Even getting out in the sunshine in the day on my own, didn’t help. Just feel spaced out and sad.

I am really sorry that you are going through this. I also have an abusive mother with a personality disorder, and find your story very relatable.

I mean this very kindly, but I don't think you will be able to heal from this until you put boundaries in with your mother. Opening yourself up to your mother at vulnerable moments just makes things worse for you.

Next time ask yourself this - what happened last time I asked my mother for support, or shared something personal? It sounds like she just makes everything much worse. Your mum may never do the work to heal emotionally. But that doesn't mean you can't. I think part of that will mean setting boundaries.

I found the book Will I Ever Be Good Enough? Really good. Although, it is hard work dealing with these deep issues so probably better to do so in therapy, with support.

You can learn to change the way you talk to yourself inside your own head - which is something we have often learned from our parents. You can learn to be the warm encouraging support voice you need.

I would do my best to gray rock - reduce contact with mother, give yourself some space. Once you have a bit of time and space away from her destabilizing influence, you will have some space to look after yourself.

I am really sorry about this - I know how hard this is and how complicated it feels. But it is possible to heal.

You sound really down 😞 I would never consider ringing my mum for support - it’s just a golden opportunity for her to point out my failings. Please don’t do this to yourself. Friends will be there for you, as I’m sure you have been for them.

My DDiL felt like this about her Mum. Her DC had an amazing relationship with her. However, that changed when one of the DC witnessed, at the age of 5, the DGM beating up the DM. They've never been the same since (now nearly a teen)! Lots of MH issues, tics, anger management issues. Don't do this to your DC.
My DDiL is totally NC (to the extent her DM doesn't know where they live) but the damage has been done! It's heartbreaking to see a child in so much MH pain because they couldn't protect their own DM.

@Kaiserchief @TryingThisAgainAgain You’re correct, I have to put boundaries in. I listened to the podcast suggested by @Escapingafter50years . Thank you too for the book recommendation. The podcast I listened to opened my eyes, it was about gaslighting and I see now that both DM and DH do the same thing. It was a real eye opener. I had started to investigate separating from him but my low mood and depression overwhelmed me. He started being ‘nice’ again and this weekend he went back to his selfish, cold ways again.

I just can’t go on like this with either of them, it’s so very scary to take the next steps but I really can’t go on like this. I had such dark thoughts last night before opening up again on here. Just feel very trapped and lonely.

My friend's grandmother is a narc.
She was once with her aunt (grandmother's daughter)
They tried to explain empathy to the grandmother as grandma never had any empathy.
When grandma (an intelligent woman by the way) finally understood what it meant she said
'Why would I want to have that / be that.'

@Hellyaa if you are stuck between a narc parent & an EA partner (been there & it's very common as the narc parent experience actually sets you up for the EA one) then it is very hard not to swing between them seeking some support for dealing with the other. But neither of them CAN offer you what you need. It's not that they won't (ie, if you just tried harder/explained better/were nicer) they would, it's that they can't. They don't have the capacity (for whatever reason). they dont have it in them. They will never offer it. It's very hard to face that.

But once you do the benefit is you will see that it is not your fault. Then you can put your energy where it belongs - with you & your children. You'll need it - it's hard to go through life without the kind parent OR the kind partner that it seems everyone else has. But you have to move ahead to make space for better things.