Can men change for the better and what instigates it?

[Waffley]

I know a lot of people say that men don't change, however, from a distance I do see small changes in some of my friends husbands in more successful marriages where there were once issues.

My friend has a lovely, loving, affectionate marriage but he was once a pub loving, beer guzzling joker who barely spent time with her. She threatened to leave him and he changed. This was 15 years ago. They joined a fitness club together and made mutual friends, him leaving his pub friends behind.

It got me wondering, if a man does change for the better, what instigates the change in him? Mostly wanting to hear from women whose husbands have changedcertain behaviours or beliefs for the better. Do they mostly change for themselves? Is it distance to get them to think about their behaviours? Ultimatums?

Obviously I understand that some men just don't want to and never change.

Is this for a tabloid article?

Rule Number 1. Never get into a serious relationship with a fixer-upper.

Why risk getting involved with a waster/taker in the first place?

Surely better to be more picky at the start so you don't have to "change" them and take the risk they won't change?

Most people don't get involved with wasters knowingly @Kazzyhoward . They mask at first, sometimes until the wedding day. It's only afterwards that the realisation sinks in that they are not who they made out to be.

@Waffley Partly true, I reckon. But this forum is full of people yelling "Don't have a baby/marry/move in with this man!!" And you know she's going to.

"Why have such scores of lovely, gifted girls 
Married impossible men? 
Simple self-sacrifice may be ruled out, 
And missionary endeavour, nine times out of ten. 

Repeat 'impossible men': not merely rustic, 
Foul-tempered or depraved 
(Dramatic foils chosen to show the world 
How well women behave, and always have behaved). 

Impossible men: idle, illiterate, 
Self-pitying, dirty, sly, 
For whose appearance even in City parks 
Excuses must be made to casual passers-by. "

Robert Graves

Have you ever changed?
What made that happen?

Men are not all the same, neither are women.

I will preface this by saying my DH is genuinely lovely - but for a period in our lives he was a stressed workaholic (owned 3 businesses) and was, I would say, infamous for being a bit of an angry arse at times in the work place.

This was often replicated at home with him issuing instructions and expecting us all to jump.

We had many discussions regarding this and to be honest, I was starting to think we should separate, when he had a heart attack. It was like flicking a switch - he sold his companies and retired within 6 months. He potters around gardening most days now and it the most laid back, caring and polite man. He says he felt like he was on a horrible high speed train struggling to keep afloat, and having the heart attack gave him to permission he felt he needed to walk away from it all.

So yes, I would say people can change - but also, if it’s to do with cheating / gambling / lying rather than lifestyle, then run for the hills as it’s not worth the risk!

Are women expected to change?

Of course they are! I've changed massively over the years. I spent my 20s being a total hedonist but as soon as I became pregnant, I changed.

Some people change and some don’t.
It’s not down to gender but whether they are invested enough in the relationship.to put the effort in.

Change for thé better, or change for thé worse?

Pressed too soon 😠

i meant to add, ‘ in whose perception?’ Yours, theirs, society’s ? God’s?

People change if they are highly motivated too. They are highly motivated to if they realise that they themselves are the source of the problems in their life, or if they realise they can effect improvement in their life by changing themself.

They have to be highly dissatisfied with how their lives are, really want to change it, and believe they can by changing themselves.

temperament and general tendencies may not change, but people can change their social circles, hobbies etc. does it mean they "changed"? or that they are just doing different things?

I split up with my fiancé over a decade ago, because he was a stressed workaholic who had no time for me. He was grumpy too and I didn’t recognise him from the keen romantic boyfriend he’d been.

I literally moved out of our flat and left him a letter on our anniversary (which he’d forgotten).

He begged me to come back and I told him he’d have to change, which he did. We dated again and moved back in together a year later, married the year after that and now have children together. He’s the most loving, involved father and husband you could wish for. He sold his business and does something else now which means he’s around a lot.

Yes, people can change. But you can't change them.

People will change only for themselves. Isn't it said you should take people as they are now, not the potential they have if they were to do x y z.. wish someone told me that 10 years ago 😂

My H changed almost from the moment we were together.

He was always lovely, funny, smart, but you could tell he felt a bit lost, overshadowed by his friends and peers.

So we met, his confidence grew, his insomnia stopped, because he felt less alone everything got better.

Then first baby arrived and his drive and reason for working, the love and devotion that was always there grew.

But basic fundamentals, he never had jealousy, anger, dominance issues.
He always just got on with what he was doing where he was. That all didn't need changing. But purpose, focus, direction, companionship, he needed all that and once we met he went from strength to strength. Gently, subtly.

And he is aware that it's "us" that kick started that.

So would this be "changing" or "blossoming"?

Mine changed. Almost over night but it took me months and months to accept and believe it. I think it's like most deep rooted issues. If you truly want to change and accept where you are at fault or have been wrong. You will change or I suppose adapt is a more fitting word. We both have.

He realised that we were worth fighting for and that he took us for granted and was being selfish.

He's back to being the man I fell hopelessly in love with.

Reading through the reponses it seems there needs to be an element of vulnerability- like they have to want to change for themselves after realising they are at fault for something, or that they could do better, or a huge life event shakes their purpose.

Thank you for the responses.
It's given me a lot to think about.

It seems that ego and arrogance could be the main stumbling blocks.

I love changing and developing as a person, I think I've changed a lot for the better. I realised I used to be a rubbish friend, that I was lazy and unfocused, also half hearted at work but I changed all of that. I work hard to be an attentive and loyal friend these days and work very hard in general at most things, but I needed to be conscious of my issues first and I guess that came from me, nobody else.

Well I've got one friend who's husband was an alcoholic. She had told him if he didn't seek help she would divorce him, he didn't so she did. That was the motivation he needed.

Once he had been to rehab and been dry for a year or so they remarried and have been very happy ever since (about 20 years since they remarried) he now runs AA groups.

I suspect if i died dh would change. He would step up in all the ways I wish he would now, but doesn't because I'm here to do it for him.
At least I hope he would, otherwise the dc would have a pretty miserable existence.

I think the core of who a person is, doesn't change. Basically decent people can go through bad patches, do selfish things, but are capable of coming out the other side and returning to the fundamentally decent person that is who they really are. Although they too have to be motivated to change the 'bad' behaviour of it's been getting them what they want. I think motivation comes about when they are in danger of losing something that means more than the reward of doing the selfish thing.

But if you've got a man (or woman) who is fundamentally selfish or arrogant or mean or abusive, then they are realistically never going to change because that's who they are at a core level. Sometimes they can behave better (again motivated by the reward of doing so) but at a fundamental character level, they are who they've always been

I think we all change with age

I think we are all capable of changing for the better - but only if we want to. That want can sometimes come when children arrive, or the possible loss of a relationship, but it's an individual choice. Those who change for a few months then revert back to type don't want it enough in my opinion. It's like giving up smoking, you can only do this if you really want to, will power will only get you so far