Sometimes "communicating" is the worst thing that you can do.

[Dinglydangle]

It's taken me a while to realise the sort of man I married. I am not going to use any labels at all, but I'm referring to the sort of man who twists your words, ties you in knots during conversations, denies what he's said, gaslights, backtracks, turns the details around and spins the tables back on you.

He has the outward character of a kind man. Most people would not believe the communication Olympics that happens in our house over the smallest thing and the sulking and emotional neglect which follows.

He doesn't shout, he doesn't call me names, he isn't outwardly abusive at all. He's manipulative.
But to the outside world, he's a caring, kind hearted gentleman.

I've posted here many times over the years and posters have correctly pointed out time after time that we have a communication issue. And this is 100% correct.

Then last week, during one of our serious conversations, I actually had a panic attack during a conversation as my words were twisted again, he said hurtful things then proclaimed 10 minutes later to never have said them. I was accused of imagining he'd said things. He got pedantic when I repeated his words back to him and used "instigate" rather than "initiate" and he refused to tell me the word he'd actually used so I barely slept that evening trying to remember the precise word he had used.

I was made to feel completely unheard and misunderstanding and the following day after the conversation, panic attack and lack of sleep, I became mentally unwell. I had to then be seen by a mental health professional. I have been having these same manipulative conversations with him for almost 10 years. There is never common ground, there is never a solution, I always feel more confused by the end.

I just wanted to post here to warn other posters about advising women to "just communicate" as some men (and women of course) use it as a weapon for emotional abuse. And eventually, we crack. It is invisible and you feel like you're going crazy. I told the mental health professional last week "I wish he'd just hit me instead."

I won't be communicating with him for a while but I will need to at some point because I have left him. I feel better at having space from him and I'm finally thinking clearly. I wish that communicative abuse was more acknowledged and understood.

You really need to get out of that relationship. What are your options? Do you have children? Do you live in a rented house or one on a mortgage?

Not all abuse is physical or even verbal. He's emotionally abusing you , get out of you can, it's not always easy though.

You should not communicate with him at all. Just slap him with a divorce petition and get the solicitor to deal with it. Your husband won't be so fecking clever then.

This doesn't sound like a communication issue, it sounds like you're married to a narcissist. Communication is really important in a relationship but you can't communicate with someone who is emotionally abusive, you just need to leave.

Well done for getting away, your mental health will improve massively

I totally agree I was in a difficult relationship, lots of issues & weird things happened with other women, circular conversations with no end, words twisted, no resolution to issues. I raised every issue with him, tried to talk it through, asked if he needed to tell me anything then after he dumped me realised he'd been seeing people behind my back. I did everything I could to try & understand him, talk to him, tied myself in knots

I agree with some people talking to them does no good. I guess this is only possible in a healthy relationship with someone who respects you. If they don't respect you it's impossible

I hope you're able to talk to someone about this, to help you make sense of it all & move on

She says she has left him. Well done OP I hope you feel better very soon.

Well done for leaving. I'm sorry you didn't feel strong enough to do it before now.

I was genuinely relieved to read “because I have left him” OP, well done on taking that step

Totally agree with you OP. So many people on here blame the woman for not communicating even when it's clear they're married to an emotional abuser. And if the penny finally drops they then say, well you shouldn't have married him then! As if abusers don't play the long game and wait until you're tied to them emotionally or financially before starting it...

Well done for getting out. It's really not easy as abusers wreck your self confidence and the gaslighting even wrecks your trust in your own judgment!

Well done on leaving. He sounds a right fucking arsehole.

This is the reason why couples counselling is not recommended where abusive personalities are involved.

You were not communicating with this man, you were just giving him a platform for his abusive behaviour towards you.

100% @Eleganz regarding the platform for abuse. I think advice to women on communicating with men in failing relationships should come with a warning!

@Spirographcity they do. It's awful, the victim blaming which goes on here. The thing is too, nobody can ever really give the full story either when they post a problem here and when posters respond about "simply" communicating they have no idea what the OP can be getting themselves into. And then the OP feels like a failure when the communication has failed.

That is what happened with me also @NotNowGertrude . I've flagged up his circular, conversational mind fuckery and now he blames it on me making him communicate in the first place as his egotistical friends have told him married couples have no need to communicate with each other and that they don't communicate with their wives.
It's bizarre what they will come up with to side step any responsibility.

I have been there and also left eventually. It took me years to figure out what the niggle in our relationship was. I would advise anyone going through this to keep notes, a discreet record maybe on a password protected phone. Then you know you are not imagining it. Same situation In every one thinking how nice he is. Good luck I’m glad you have left.

Oh my goodness I need to understand this some more. This feels so familiar. Where can I research this. I could actually cry with relief. Someone actually understands.

Sounds like 10 years of emotional abuse to me.

Glad you have left.

I’ve lost my confidence even in my own memory. How do you record things?

Communicating is best in healthy relationships. Other relationships need to be left behind. If you find that communicating doesn't work, you are, at best, incompatible.

Choosing to stay in a relationship where communication is regularly hurtful and unresolved is choosing to be hurt.

OP thank God you’ve finally left. Sending you strength

You don't. You recognise that if you feel the need to, the relationship is over, and you leave.

@Bluebare I've written an anonymous blog for around a year and share it in a trusted, private group for understanding and validation.

Yes. Couples counselling can very easily be turned into a tool of abuse by a manipulative partner. And far too many counsellors don’t seem to recognise this, which is so dangerous.

I’m so glad you’ve left him @Dinglydangle and that you recognise that communicating with him is the problem.

Dealing with a man like him is so, so hard.

The problem here is that you're not dealing with a normal man, you're dealing with a text book narcissist by the sounds of it. You cannot communicate with narcs, they will engage in word salad, gaslight you and bend reality into how it suits them. Comms with narcissists are brain fuck-ery at it's finest. Bad for your self esteem and bad for your health. You need to grey rock this guy, do not engage, just walk away. Get a divorce if you can

If you have to do mediation as part of divorce… shuttle mediation is a better idea.

That way he has to communicate to a neutral party, who has actually heard what you said. Makes an enormous difference.

I’ve tried to write a diary before but got too scared he’d read it. I will try again. I go from really strong to a crying mess. Because he undoes all my truth.
I can’t explain it very well.

Every single word of your opening post could have been written by me.

I have found salvation in finding a therapist who understands this and has helped me. I now know he is an entitled bully.

We are now divorcing. It took me a long time to fully realise that nothing I can say to him will make any difference. When we were still sharing the family home he would follow me if I left a room, carry on when I asked him to leave. He would bombard me with emails and texts.

I have moved out and have found the only way is simply not see him. He still texts and comes to my door. I very rarely reply, and when I open the door we exchange very few words. Anything else is done through solicitors.

I imagine the long letter I will write when this is all over to try and explain things, but to be honest that’s a waste of time.

So you are right, there are times when trying to communicate is a waste of time.