Is this just how marriage is?

[Coffeequeen13]

My husband and I have been together for almost 20 years. As you would expect in that time, we've faced plenty of ups and a lot of downs!
We had a messy few years and alcohol was a big issue for him. He did things that I knew would be hard to forgive and so after years of me trying to support him and making myself ill in the process, that was the final straw, and we parted ways for about 5 months.
During this time he got sober, sorted himself out and neither of us moved on. So we decided to give it another go as it really was what we both wanted. I promised to work on forgiveness if he continued to stay sober. I paid for private counselling, and poured my heart out week after week to a complete stranger as I felt I couldn't talk to him in case i triggered him into drinking.
4 years on, we've not had a single big fight, our life seems to be a happy one and our children (teenageers) are doing the best they've ever been. We both work hard and always spend our free time doing fun things with the kids. From the outside, we look like a perfect family.

• But heres the clincher- Despite all this effort on both sides, and the seemingly happy life, I just can't help but feel a part of us (and me) is missing. I'm not depressed, I love my life. I love him (I did tell him I didn't love him the same way i used to when we got back together. I thought that would change over time. I thought it was just because i was still hurting.) I love him in a different way. I love him for what he's done to save our family and I know it wasn't easy for him. I love him for continuing to improve our lives everyday, for working hard and for the amazing dad he is. But it wasn't easy for me either, and everyday I'm struggling to find the strength to not think about what he did! The intrusive thoughts are still there. I often feel quite lonely. Due to the nature of the issues faced our friendship group became non-existent. It caused falling outs between friends and they were all drinkers too so we distanced ourelves to work on us. I just can't help but feel like we are both only treading water for the children. I feel i cant talk to him about any of this because im so worried he'll turn to drinking if he struggles with hearing it. Don't get me wrong, it's a happy home, we don't row, we get along and the kids aren't suffering for us staying together. (If that were the case, I'd be gone! I'm not scared to be alone.) I guess I'm just wanting to know, is this just a normal marriage? Is this just how marriage gets? We hardly ever have sex (maybe twice a month). I have no desire to, because I have zero self confidence now. He's given up trying. I feel like I live with my a friend. Who I adore, but it's not how I expected my marriage to be. I'm not expecting to be swept off my feet and have butterflies everytime our eyes meet...but I just can't put my finger on it. I always said that if I ever felt like I wasn't happy, or I could never forgive him then we'd call it a day. But I don't know if it's that. And I cannot ruin what is now a safe and happy environment for my children to be in. I feel like I'm making the sacrifice of feeling like thisdoand struggling with my own issues from his actions, so my children can finish growing in a happy and safe home but I ultimately know that when they're grown and moved out...we probably will part ways. Does anyone else relate? Am I being dramatic is this just "normal"?

It's admirable the work you've both put in, but feeling lonely and unable to talk to your spouse out of fear you trigger them to start drinking isn't healthy.
Remember if they choose to turn to drink, it's not because you've shared your feelings and you cannot allow yourself to take on responsibility for their issues, otherwise you're setting yourself an impossible mission.

It sounds like you've both put a lot of effort in, but out the other side you're different people at different points.

It doesn't matter if it's normal or not if you don't like it! We haven't had sex in three years and have no kids and I feel like I live with my best friend, and it's wonderful so my normal isn't your experience.

Thank you, it actually feels nice to hear someone praise us for the effort because its been hard on both of us.
I should point out, he's given me no reason to believe he'll turn to drinking. I suppose for anyone living with an ex addict of any sort, you're always worrying about situations that may cause them to relapse. This is something we've talked about, as I worry about big life events, like losing parents etc.
I think what youre saying holds some truth, we are both different people. I know I definitely am! What we went through has had a huge impact on me. It made me sonically and somewhat cold hearted.
I guess I'm just trying to pick apart how I'm feeling. I'm torn between "this is just marriage and a phase and we'll get through it" or "this is it, you're never gonna get over it and just ride it through until the kids are older". 😔

Sorry, "normal" probably wasn't the right word.
I think the not knowing if I like it or not is the issue. I love the life we have now, but I'm constantly thinking about what it was that made us get here. I feel like that's affecting my view on a life that most people woukd die for. It's something I've spoken about in therapy.
That's why I ask if it's "normal", because I don't know if I'm stressing about something that is "normal, that most people feel and what most people go through. Or if there's a deeper issue that I may never get past.
I guess I'm just looking for opinions and somewhere to vent as I don't have anyone to talk to. This is my first post on here and the first time I've spoken about this...despite feeling this way for a long time.

everyday I'm struggling to find the strength to not think about what he did! The intrusive thoughts are still there. I often feel quite lonely. Due to the nature of the issues faced our friendship group became non-existent. It caused falling outs between friends

Am I reading this right? He did something during his drinking years that caused you to lose trust in him and for you both to lose your friends?

If so, it sounds like you've both done a lot of work to get to where you are but I think the one big issue is this event or behaviours that you feel unable to broach with him, is that right?

You were not the reason he misused alcohol.
He made a deliberate choice to drink.
He made a deliberate choice to stop drinking.
He is the ONLY one responsible if he drinks again.
You cannot tiptoe through life suppressing your thoughts and feelings in an effort to maintain his sobriety.
He alone is in charge of that.
If you have something to say to him.. say it.. he has to be able to deal with reality.

It sounds as though you don't trust him anymore. You're so worried that something you do will cause him to go back to drinking that you're extra careful with him. That's not a partnership, that's you taking in smothering role. No wonder you have no sexual attraction to him!

If you want to stay with him you need to start respecting him as an adult and to start trusting him, but with very firm lines which if he crosses means the marriage is over. But you have to somehow live without expecting him to cross those lines or being constantly fearful that he will cross those lines. That is why most marriages don't survive betrayals because this is actually a really difficult thing to do.

Basically, yes. Whilst he was at his lowest he was unfaithful with someone I knew. Some of our mutual friends were aware of this and it all came to a head quite a few moths down the line. I'd had this woman in our house with friends, we'd had BBQs together, our kids played with hers. The whole time they knew what they had done. So it wasn't just a silly mistake with a stranger but it wasnt a full blown affair either. But it was something that affected my whole life. I lost a lot of my friends as I couldnt trust them too, I had nobody to talk to about it all. I felt like theyd all been laughing it off behind my back. I had no social life, which was fine as I didn't want one.
I agreed to put the work in once he was sober.
We spent 5 months working on ourselves as individuals, then tried again.
Guess I'm trying to work out if my feelings are as a result of what's happened, if other people feel this way about their marriage, who havent had that drama to deal with, if what I have is just a normal marriage and it's normal to have some doubts about it or if its as a direct result of everything that's happened and me and feeling like I cant talk to him about it is making it worse.
I know, there's a lot to pick apart...believe me i know, I've spent the best part of 3 years trying to pick it apart In my head.
I thought I'd feel more sure about it all working out by now, but the reality is...I don't. And I feel i can't talk to him about it.

Surviving the betrayal of his drinking and the moving on from that is like trying to get over the betrayal of an affair. The trust was shaken, the person you thought you knew is not what you ended up dealing with.
As a PP (Previous Poster) has commented, one has to live with the notion that if he slips again you will leave.
Until then I can only suggest based on my (slightly different) experience that you enjoy what you have now and make the most of it. Move on, relax, but be vigilant about any further nonsense. If you encounter it, have a plan and action it.
We only have one life.

Thank you, what your saying makes sense and it's something I've worked on in a more typical way. Like, I used to find it hard when we got back together if he was on his phone a lot, wondering what he was up to, or if he went to see friends I'd be worrying about where he was, who with, how long he was taking etc. I'm passed all that now. He's proved over the past few years, that I can trust him in that sense.
However...
Addiction is an illness and whilst I know the individual makes that choice, sometimes the triggers are too much to handle. (You may have seen I commented about future life events being worrying to me too). I should also point out that him becoming sober this time came after many, many failed attempts and promises, and only came after betrayal and him (and me) losing everything we had.
That being said, you are right in that if I don't trust him enough to be able to talk openly, that's not a partnership. The issue is, me talking about all this could be the difference between just me feeling the way I do now, or my whole family destroyed again and whilst I know that wouldn't be my fault, I don't know if it's a risk I'm willing to take. But I know that means me continuing to not have the answers I need.
As for the sex- It's not that I'm not attracted to him, but I really have hit rock bottom with my self confidence with all of this, no matter how much I work on that I don't seem to be getting anywhere with it.
I'm seeing from replies I'm getting that I don't have a "typical" marriage, so I guess that's given me something to think about.

Guess I'm trying to work out if my feelings are as a result of what's happened, if other people feel this way about their marriage, who havent had that drama to deal with, if what I have is just a normal marriage and it's normal to have some doubts about it or if its as a direct result of everything that's happened and me and feeling like I cant talk to him about it is making it worse.

I kind of understand. My ex was abusive to me (some of which had catastrophic consequences) but it was and still is the cheating that hurts and angers me.

It's good that you still have a relationship with your husband, and the work you've done to get there. You say you can't talk to your husband about his cheating - do you have something you want to say to him? To hear from him?

I don't think i have anything I want to hear from him. But I don't think he understands just how much it still effects me 3/4 years down the line. In the beginning we were very open about it. He was very honest about it all (once he didnt have a choice) and he understood that 2I wouldn't get over it overnight, if ever...and I was very raw with how it had made me feel and the effect it had on my mental health and view of him and me. I told him I'd probably never love him the way I used to, or myself for that matter. He knows I've had counselling etc but by this point we had kind of adapted the "not talking about it anymore" method. I, as well as him at some undisclosed point decided that we were no longer discussing the issue. And I've stuck with that so now I feel like so much time has passed, it's so difficult to just randomly throw out into the air that I'm still really struggling with it. I feel it won't achieve anything. Our life is nice it's just not what I expected my marriage to be and I don't think telling him how I feel, will stop me feeling the way I do. There's nothing he can do or say. The only outcome is that I will make him relive all the pain he caused me. Then the 2 of us will feel like cr4p and that will impact our children.

I don't think he understands just how much it still effects me

You are the one living with his actions, it probably suits him that you've gone quiet on the matter.

It sounds like you're feeling you just have to suck it up for the sake of keeping your household relatively happy.

Be aware, your children see your relationship as how relationships are, this is their rolemodel.

Even if you were to separate, what he did to you and your children isn't going to go away, it will always be there and will always hurt you. I don't think you should discount that though, it is an option.

But if you want things to stay as they are, do you think more counselling will help, perhaps with someone different? It's obviously playing on your mind a lot, even just talking it through with someone and straightening up the tangles might help you be more at peace with where you are. Or help you to start thinking of yourself first

Marriage is long and life is long too. People make mistakes in long marriages feelings can fluctuate and sometimes other people can remind you of another life you could have had. It doesn't make it less painful for you, though. It also doesn't mean you have to forgive or get over something. Obviously infidelity does kill off a lot of marriages.

Out of interest did you get together young? I always feels its very hard to get together young and stay faithful in a world that is constantly offering new things / alternative lifestyles.

I would set a time limit of say two years, get therapy separately get therapy together keep talking to your husband to really try and get over what he did but accept there is nothing wrong in accepting you don't want to accept the new normal.

It sounds like you've never really addressed the issue and now you don't feel as if you can because everything and everybody has moved on.
It's a bit like having a wound that you've not properly cleaned and disinfected. Instead you've stuck a plaster over it. Over time the plaster has become part of the skin but underneath there is still the original wound that is slowly getting deeper and more poisonous. Ripping the plaster off now could expose a deeper and more poisonous wound...so you leave it.
Do you still have feelings of anger and betrayal which you feel that you can't talk about now and is there a part of you that feels as if he's got away with the betrayal? I feel for you as it sounds like you didn't really get time to explore how you felt whilst you were apart and now you're back together its too late to bring it all up.

No, I don't feel like I "have" to. I know I can speak to him and it will go one way or the other, and I accept that. I just feel like I'd be rocking the cradle. I don't think he's aware of how I'm feeling. Our children are currently very happy. Emotionally and mentally they have come on leaps and bounds now they're not seeing dad drunk and mum crying. They have the loving, safe happy home they deserve. It's THAT what makes me not want to say anything. The minute I thought they were picking up on anything or our home wasn't a nice one to be in or we were rowing etc. That would be it, because I cannot, and will not allow my children to go through that again.
I think it's more a "saving the peace" thing. I know I have the strength to deal with whatever the outcome from these conversations my be, but I don't think it's fair on my children to risk their happiness again.
As another poster has said,maybe I didn't take long enough to process before we got back together. That's on me.

I think this sums it up tbh. I feel like we did a lot of work individually and crrated a loving, safe and happy environment for the children. He sorted himself out, I got counselling and that was that. But it's still there. That feeling in the pit of my stomach that makes me feel sick. I feel like I'm living this happy life, which I love, but it's tainted with all this unresolved pain inside of me which I don't want to bring up because the children truly are happy and have no idea I'm sad. Heck, I genuinely think he has no idea I'm still sad. That's it now though it's not anger, I feel sad that this lovely life has come at a cost of me losing all my self confidence, trust in people, passion and (same level of) love for him. And in order for me to try and get that back, I'd have to rip that plaster off and potentially turn the kids worlds upside down if things didn't work out well.

We were fairly young but he had lived more of a life than me. I think that's why I found it so hard to deal with at first. He'd had is fun before we met, and yet I was the one who remained (and still have to this day) faithful. (No resentment, that life isn't for me)
Its not even just that but what I went through trying to help him, making myself ill, and that's how he repaid me.
I've tried so hard to forgive him, and some days hurt less than others. But recently, more often than not, I'm feeling the way I did when it just all happened. Sick. My stomach doing flips.
I feel like we should have set a time limit in the beginning, before we tried again. It's just a lot to potentially put the kids through again.

What I'd encourage you to try here is to 'zero the scales'.

When we want to weigh out ingredients to cook something we place a bowl on the scales and hit the zero button so that the weight of the bowl does not confuse our calculations. Then we add the ingredients and the numbers go up; if we take ingredients out the numbers go down but it can't go below zero.

You had a level of happiness prior to his affair and this went up and down as is normal in marriages, but the bowl was always there. Now the bowl has been taken away (the impact of the affair) and your happiness readings are now at a minus level and no matter what you add to the mix, you can't see a way back to zero, never mind a positive number.

If you can accept that the changes in your lives can not be undone, you can hit the 'tare' button and reset your personal happiness scale, and anything you now add will be a bonus.

Human beings are excellent at adapting to new circumstances; we do it every time we improve our situation - if you can also do when the situation changes for the worse then you can adapt to anything.

Sometimes@Coffeequeen13 it doesn't matter how much work you put into it, how much you want it to work, their behaviour- be it drinking or infidelity or whatever means you just don't 'feel the same' about them- that candle has been well and truly snuffed out by their hurtful actions. Some people can live with this but others cant - they want that original feeling of 100% love- not the 78% they've been left with- only you know if it's now enough for you.

There seems to be a view from you that if you stay together your children will be happy and if you part they won't. So you're pushing down your own feelings to maintain this facade of a happy home. But your relationship has previously made them unhappy and I wonder if they are as oblivious about your emotional state as you think. I'm trying to say not very clearly that the children could be happy if you did decide to split and you could be too. You do have options.

Married 25 years here. Everyone loves my DH. He is a lovely, quiet man who lives for his friendships and would give most anyone the shirt off his back. He also is a big drinker. It is a constant underlying issue for me. We are merely roommates - besides a kiss hello and goodbye have had no intimacy in years. We live for our sons who are almost all adults and starting the next stage of their lives. He tells me he loves me so often that I know it has just become a habit. I vacillate between being lonely and loving being alone. I know how you feel. This will be my life until I die but it is a lot better than some woman have.

I've tried so hard to forgive him

Why? You don't have to forgive him. You've put your own life, health and happiness on hold to get him better, to try and get things back to normality - you can accept what he's done but you don't owe him forgiveness. Take that pressure off yourself.

I agree with PPs, you have to accept you'll never have the same level of love/trust/security you had before. It's how you learn to live with that, and the fact you are now not living with the man you married but a different version of him, that will need worked at.

But it's still there. That feeling in the pit of my stomach that makes me feel sick.

That feeling sounds quite fresh, current, very unresolved. It's not doing your health any good. Nor is the sadness and anguish you're going through, it'll need to come out in some way.

It's obviously been on your mind for a long time, has something prompted you to post about it now?

I genuinely don't want to sound glib or smug, but when people talk about what hard work marriage is, and when you talk about how hard you have both workef on yours, I always just think 'Surely it shouldn't really be hard work?'. You say you've tried so hard to forgive him... but really, why should you?

@AntoniaMacaronia I don't forgive my H - I've shoved it behind the wardrobe , don't bring it up anymore and accepted it happened- but forgive- ? Nah. That's why I say to the OP- you can either live with the 78% feeling or not - unlikely you will feel 100% the same. If I was younger and had a career that wasn't tied in with my H- I would have called it a day. - purely because I can't feel that 100% again