Sister leaving BIL: I like BIL but DS doesn't want me to contact him

[extraordinarily]

My sister DS married and had children very young, divorced and then in her 30s met BIL. He's a quiet, academic, gentle sort of man who took a while for me to get to know, but I've always liked him. He just gets on calmly with things and he's been an excellent stepdad to my niece and nephew who call him Dad. DS and BIL have been married more than 20 years. My DS has undergone a sea change in her life in the last few years. As she approached 50 she had a change of work direction and a makeover — a personal trainer, new hair and veneers, a new wardrobe — and with the confidence gained from that she found a new job which seems to suit her down to the ground. She now travels regularly and speaks in public. Her work has been published and publicised and within her own sphere she's become a bit of a name. It's been fantastic to see her come into her own. My BIL supported it all the way and is very proud of her, as am I.

BIL on the other hand has had a difficult few years. His mum died during Covid and BIL spent a lot of time supporting his dad, who is now in a care home. Around that time my sister started to complain about him — about him being dull, about the fact that he had prioritised his father over her. Her grumbling about him has carried on. She says he's no fun, he's not interested in a last-minute weekend in a 5* hotel in Venice, he doesn't want to learn to ski because he's got an injured knee, they had a beach holiday in the Caribbean and he didn't want to join in the dancing... Then in January this year BIL's brother committed suicide. I've seen him three times since then and he's heartbroken. But my sister has continued to complain about him and her lack of empathy has really troubled me. I've kept saying 'But his brother killed himself only a few weeks ago' and her reply has always been along the lines of 'but life has to go on.'

Yesterday she came to visit on her own and told me that for the last eight months she's been seeing someone new and she's in love and is leaving BIL. She's asked me not to judge her for this, she's had one foot out of the door of the marriage for several years and it's just coincidence that she's leaving him while he's grieving. She said she knows I get on with BIL but she doesn't want me to contact him.

I found myself crying in bed last night and have woken up feeling awful. I've known BIL more than 20 years and I'm fond of him. He's been like a brother to me at times. I'm also thinking about my niece and nephew, now in their 30s. Does my DS expect them to walk away from him too?

I love my sister, I get what she's saying — that if he hadn't been bereaved she would have left him now, so why change her decision because of him.

Has anyone else been through something similar? So many people I know are divorced and have siblings who are divorced but I've never known anyone who's seemed to be close to their in-laws. If you are, how did you manage to juggle your love for your sibling and your affection for their ex?

I don’t feel your sister gets to dictate your life choices. I am still in regular contact with my ex DIL.

When they split I sent her a text asking if she would like to meet. There was no one else involved in the breakup. I have continued to see her regularly. Very rarely does the ex come up in conversation with either of them. When it does I listen and make sympathetic noises. I don’t know the real reason why they separated. Only that she had suffered from a trauma. They went to counselling for three years before they split.

I find it easy to be completely neutral. Try not to judge your sister, but stick to your grounds with supporting BiL.

She has outgrown him though. Part of me agree that she should be able to move on from him if she has outgrown him.

but affairs are horrible and he has been through utter shit. I don’t think your sister can tell you that you can’t see him. I think you should see him.

I recently attended my ex BIL wedding, I kept in touch when they divorced and his new wife is so much better for him. My sister wasn’t very happy that I kept in touch but as far as I was concerned he is still family. He still occasionally visits my mum with new wife. I wouldn’t have let sis dictate my relationship with him.

This. I would support the BIL.

I think there are two other people to consider, your niece and nephew, and the man who is to them their dad. Maintaining contact with BiL could be important for them as well as him, even though they are adults.

As the kids are now grown up so you don’t have to worry about them per se I would say it’s none of her business if you continue to have BiL in your life. She sounds very self centred and I see no reason why you should accommodate her requests (or orders more like).

Have a very honest conversation with your sister. Explain that you do not, and will not, judge her because you love her and want her to be happy. But that you also will not take sides in any aspect of the situation.

Remind your sister that you are an independent person capable of managing your own thoughts and actions, and that you will continue to be in touch with your brother-in-law.

Explain that you have had brother-in-law in your life for a long time, you care about him too. You continuing a relationship with him doesn't reflect at all on how much you love and support your sister.

Difficult situation but with care can be managed.

Your relationship with your BIL exists now without his marriage to your sister. Unless there is abuse, you have no obligation to end your relationship with him.

I would make sure that you give her time to convey all her information to him before you reach out. You don’t want to risk complicating the situation by accidentally saying something inaccurate. You are not obligated to keep her secrets, but at this point you should let her speak her truths directly.

I bet he'll have a few things to say that she doesn't want anyone knowing about

She’s a cheating, selfish cow. I’d bin her off and keep in contact with BIL.

I don’t think she’s done anything unforgivable, but agree with others that your sister’s choices don’t get to dictate yours.

Staying in touch after a split can be deeply awkward. A former friend who left her husband has never quite forgiven me for staying friends with her ex, which has had the effect of making our friendship more distant and mine with him closer. But I’d have lost a good friend if I’d obeyed her diktat. As it is, I’ve (partly) lost her. It sounds as if you’re very fond of your BIL, and that’s worth holding onto, regardless of the circumstances of the split.

@florentina1, thank you for posting about your ex DIL and those who have posted about staying in touch with ex BILs/ SILS. I'm felt a kinship with whoever it was who said they felt quite neutral because that is pretty much how I feel. I love them both and wants the best for them both. I'm pissed off with my sister, but I also understand.

Ideally DS would initiated a divorce pre-Covid when she first started grumbling about BIL's lack of adventurousness and spontaneity. But she didn't. Staying with him now, in the hope that it would make it easier for him, would probably be a recipe for disaster. She'd be frustrated and unhappy and I don't think he's the kind of man who would be able to be happy knowing how bad she felt.

I sympathise with them both, but more deeply with BIL because he's going through a really dreadful experience and she's on a high with a new lover and a shiny new future.

If I'm going to judge her on anything, it's a lack of imagination about what constitutes a good life. She had a good life with a good, steady husband. I'm hoping she isn't going to go down the botox and bling route. Such a cliche.

My DF and uncles always stayed in touch with my Aunts ExH. My DF and one brother in particular were very close with my Aunts Ex, My Aunt regardless of her issues with her ex knew and understood this. Obviously there was no cross over in socialising or him coming up in conversation with my Aunt, they all just got on with things. One of my DFs best nights just before he died was when the ExH came to see him, my DF really wanted to see him and vice versa. My cousin told me after my DF died her Dad was so happy and grateful he got to see my DF and it was just like it always was with him, my DF and Uncle the three of them just laughing all night long.

Even if my Aunt had a issue I doubt it would have changed things, my DF & uncles relationship with her Ex was theirs to do with as they please.

I think I’d respect her wishes to keep things quiet for now, but I’d tell her she needs to leave him asap as your not keeping this to yourself for long and when it dose come to an end you plan on still remaining friends with him and offering him support as although your happy she is happy and confident in her choices, right now the man you consider a friend and brother is going through hell after she leaves it will be worse so you have no intention of walking away from him.

When my parents divorced (dad left mum for younger woman more exciting life) dads family did keep in touch with her, her SILs still see her and of course she is auntie to my cousins so goes to weddings etc it was hugely important to all of them, you are not part of someones life for all that time then through no fault of their own supposed to cut them off. your DSIS doesn't get to decide who you keep in touch with . Follow your gut . Your niece and nephew will make their own minds up and arrangements, they are adults, you can tell your DSIS not to try and control that too. Let her do what she needs to do but tell her to not interfere with what others choose.

If he was also in his 30s when they met it isn't that surprising that he hasn't really changed is it?

I might go for a last minute holiday to Venice but I have no interest in learning to ski!

He has been through such a lot & I can't believe that she moaned about him supporting hos dad!

Would she have done what she has done without him I wonder?

this is just asking for drama - depending on how he takes the breakup it may end up very messy with you in the middle, only for the relationship between you and your BIL the wither away anyway. Or he will cling to you / your family as a surrogate for the failed marriage, while his ex wife goes on to live her life while being guilt tripped.

Sure you don't need to cut him out, but you cannot talk about their relationship, or help him, of even offer any comfort, and I would not be surprised if he does not take this boundary well

Ask her why she can’t try and remain supportive of BIL and tell her that it’s one thing to leave him but to encourage everyone else to walk away from him escalates her behaviour from unfortunate but understandable to spiteful cow territory. Tell her you will be remaining friends with them both. Speak to your nieces and nephews once it’s out too before she can get her claws in.

Sorry but you sister is an a selfish cow, I know that will hurt but let’s face facts here.

She has been moaning about her husband for a while you say, yet did nothing about it……until she met someone.
You say BIL’s brother killer himself in January, but she has been having her affair for 8 months, but says if her BIL hadn’t killed himself then she would have left her husband and it would have all been amicable, she is kidding herself on, and trying to turn it so you all believe her.

Okay so she has changed and turned her life down a different path and now has a brilliant career, that is brilliant for her, honestly, but she has been sitting waiting to see where the relationship with her new beau goes before she does anything about her marriage.

So in the last few years your BIL has lost his mum, his dad has went into a care home, he has lost his brother to suicide, and now his marriage is going to end, and she tells you not to have any contact with him, and if she has said for you not to have any contact you can bet your bottom dollar she has told her kids not to have any contact with their stepfather, talk about kicking a man when he is down, forget what your sister is saying, be there for him, she shouldn’t be dictating who speaks to him and who doesn’t, and if she tries to pull the loyalty card, tell her she doesn’t know the meaning of the word and shouldn’t be throwing it about to other people.

Face it, your sister is one hell of a selfish woman!

It is wonderful that your sister has grown. It does seem though that it has ( perhaps temporarily) gone to her head and she has made some incredibly selfish decisions.

I would just be clear to your sister that you are supportive of her, but you can still check on your brother in law without compromising your relationship with her.

Be prepared to put boundaries down with your brother in law though. Once he figures out how disloyal your sister has been, he may be incredibly angry and want to talk to you about it.

OP do you know why your DS doesn’t want you to talk to your BIL?

My guess is the story she’s spun you isn’t quite so accurate / the complete truth / the full story & she doesn’t want you to find out.

@extraordinarily you sound really lovely. I think you're going to need to point out to your sister that you can have loyalties to both her and BIL, and that BIL really needs more support than she does at the moment so that you reaching out to him is not a betrayal of her or even a judgement of her but an act of compassion towards a vulnerable person. You sound like you're wise enough and big enough to handle this.
And there might be some valuable learning in it for your sister.
I can see it from her POV APART from having an affair rather than ending her relationship and APART from trying to stop you contacting BIL, which she has no actual right to do.
I hope he's ok.

I was so stunned at DS's news that it didn't occur to me to go into details about exactly how long she expects me not to have contact with BIL. I still don't know, but she's not a monster. After more thought, as a result of people's responses here, I guess she probably wants a period where she and BIL can sort things out without the involvement of others. But that's not what she said so I don't know for sure.

I tried calling BIL earlier and he didn't pick up, so I've messaged him saying I saw DS yesterday and that if he felt up for a visit it I'd like to see him, too. I sent him my love. I'll be speaking to my niece next week about another issue. Perhaps she'll talk about her parents. If she doesn't, I won't.

I don't think DS is unsupportive of BIL. She feels really shitty about what's happened, she knows how it makes her look and having made her decision she is trying to give BIL some say in how things go. So, she was prepared to move out immediately if he wanted her gone, but he has asked her to stay for a few weeks.

I'm going to open a bottle of wine now.

You have your own relationship with this person, you've known him for 20 years, tell your sister to stop being so ridiculous; she can leave him but it doesn't change your relationship with this person.

Is it that she didn't want you to ever speak to hi again, or that she'd told you before she'd told him so just needed to tell him first? Is she worried you'll mention the exciting lover she's been cheating with?

It might at least be worth saying to your sister you're not abandoning him but you also won't tell him more than she has.

A close friend has had the same situation with her sister. Friend has stayed in quiet contact with the ex-BIL. If her sister mentions him she comments blandly. Friend told BIL she would never discuss her sister. All is peaceful at the moment. Your sister doesn't have the right to tell you whom you can speak to either.