My mother

[Miriam101]

I'd be grateful if anyone could relate to my experience or offer any advice.

My mum has always suffered with bad mental health- depression and anxiety- and as a consequence has been a volatile/difficult presence in my life for a long time. On her good days she's been a great mum; her best self is a kind, clever, funny and caring person. But then something happens- usually one of us supposedly slighting her/rejecting her, which is almost never actually the case- and she snaps and goes ballistic, says all kinds of nasty things, then feels terribly guilty and upset, and we all have to reassure her that it's ok, we can get over it etc etc. Then she's fine again.

Trouble is, as I get older (I'm in my 40s), I am finding this cycle increasingly difficult to bear. The last time we saw her we had a big drama because she thought I had been "off" with her, and then lashed out. (I wasn't, I was just thinking about something else.) We then got into an exhausting discussion about how she doesn't feel I love her, how I "broke with" her (by going to university and finding a job that I loved in another city!). She says all this stuff quite regularly now. None of it is true. I do love her, and have good memories of my childhood, apart from these intense rages she gets which I find completely irrational and disproportionate and which reduce me to floods of tears even at my age. (She does stuff like impersonate me and announce "I'm done with this", "I can't be doing with you any longer" that sort of thing- it's hard to explain but I find it very upsetting.)

She is also like this with my dad and he and I feel similarly. Her brother is similar, and apparently so was their mother, who could apparently turn on a dime. I have wondered whether all of them might be ND, but my mum is in her late 70s and now doesn't seem the moment to bring it up.

I just wondered if anyone else's parents behave like this. I'm just utterly exhausted by it. I found it easier to forgive when I was a kid, even when she would scream and shout (proper shouting- none of this 21st century raised voice business, lol) at me. Now it saddens me so much.

I'm aware she sounds manipulative but I don't think she means to be. She has a lot of self-awareness and self-loathing.

Mine is like this but never feels guilt. Unfortunately I have no advice.

My mother must have had bad PMT - I can now see this looking back. It was hell as a child. She was like Jekyll and Hyde; a normal person one minute then cruel the next. I hated it.

If your Mum is now in her late 70s I think you need to factor in fear - as people age some realise that it is nearly all over and feel despairing. I am sorry that you are having to go through all this. Maybe reduce contact to what you can manage and take the flak - but not as often.

You can just say that you are steering clear a bit because she gives you grief and you can no longer cope with it. Hard I know, but you have to have some balance in your life.

At her age she's unlikely to change
I understand how upsetting it is. My dad was a bit like this. Kind funny and loving one minute but then some small inconsequential thing would happen and he'd go in to a rage or a deep depression. I found it very upsetting when I was younger but now I just kind of accept it's how he is. I even feel pity for him as I don't ever think he's been truly happy. I'm thankful I'm not like him in that respect. I don't think there's an easy answer to this apart from trying to accept it's how she is and you're not responsible.

Thanks @Mischance I'm sorry you had to deal with that when you were a child. Is your mum still around? Did she mellow with age, if you think it was PMT? It's not a problem steering clear as we live in different cities so only see each other once every couple of months. But I don't really want that- I want to find a way of getting along, and she would be totally devastated if I said something along the lines of 'I need some space'.

"She is also like this with my dad and he and I feel similarly. Her brother is similar, and apparently so was their mother, who could apparently turn on a dime".

What does your dad say about his wife? I sincerely hope he does not say anything to you like, "well you know what she is like" and/or something along the lines of "do not criticise my choice of wife". Is he actually enabling her behaviour towards you all?.

Familial dysfunction can and does go down the generations and to your credit it has stopped with you.

None of this suggests nuerodiversity to me; more like untreated and untreatable personality disorders. You cannot reason with people this disordered of thinking. Whatever the root causes (and her own mother was the same as your mother is now towards you) its not your fault she is like this and you did not make her that way. Her family did that lot of damage to her. Your mother though had a choice when it came to you and she chose to behave the same as what was doled out to her and her brother. She never sought, nor perhaps wanted to actually seek, the necessary help. You're being played by her like a violin here and impersonating you is one of her many unkind actions. She knows what she is doing and wants to get a reaction from you; to such people that is the reward.

You would not tolerate this from a friend would you and your mother is no different. It is ok to withdraw and to drop all social interactions with her to the bare minimum. You also do not have to maintain contact with someone like this either.

I have a relative like this. I often feel on egg shells around them. It's so hard.

"But I don't really want that- I want to find a way of getting along, and she would be totally devastated if I said something along the lines of 'I need some space'.

What about you here in all this?. You matter!!. You to her don't matter. It takes two to make a relationship work and she is patently not bothered about you as her daughter or what you think. She was a crap parent to you when you were growing up and she has not changed much, if at all, in all the years since. I actually think she'd be angry and or otherwise pissed off at you that you'd be asking for some space, not actually devastated.

You are also going to have to grieve for the relationship you should have had with her rather than the one you actually got. That is a part of the overall healing process.

For you also JamSandle re your relative:

While such individuals will try to make it seem like everything is your fault or that you have no worth, it is they in fact who are severely flawed. There may be many reasons for why they are that way; but that in no way justifies how they treat you or how they make you feel. Again, they need professional help and that is not your job, nor is it your job to be the human chew-toy or punching bag of an emotionally unstable personality.

Your job is to insulate yourself and, if need be, your children from this kind of personality before they do greater harm. No matter what others may tell you, remember this: “You have no social obligation, ever, to be victimized.” You are not her emotional punchbag.

Thanks @SallyWD and sorry you went through this too. I think you're right that she's very unlikely to change now. I feel sad that for various reasons I'm seeing more of this side of her now than the good side, and worried that this may continue for her last years. Part of me accepts it, but part of me, especially in the moment, still rages against it.

Hi op yes very tiring and draining. Mine is 80s now doesnt change. Advice my counsellor gave was tight boundaries keep visits brief. Anything starts a row booking night away abroad or holidays. I tell her very little. Hate this shite if Im honest as friends mams are normal

I’d suggest buying some self help books and both reading them. Perhaps CBT would work for her. It sounds like every time something happens that hurts her feelings, her go to is to think it’s because she isn’t loved.

Would she consider writing her feelings down instead of being all emotional at you. Perhaps if you could write to each other instead of talking it would take dial the intensity down. It would need to be proper letter not texts.

She sounds like my sister op but without the guilt.

I am non contact now. Much harder to do with an elderly mother snd she won't change. Not now. I would just immediately leave or put down the phone when she starts and simply say contact me when you calm down and behave yourself.

Be tougher op know it's hard but it's her fault to fix not yours to endure

I think it sounds like she has an emotionally unstable personality disorder rather than depression. Poor you she's vile to you it must be exhausting x

OP,

That is very hard.

She will not change.

This is who she is.

She may get a lot worse.

Please get some counselling for yourself, to help you process your very tough childhood and to accept that this is who she is.

Protect yourself as best you can is all you can do.

I'm so sorry.

Mine was similar, in her 70s and I stopped all contact with her about 6 months ago and won’t have anything to do with her again. Often depressed or anxious throughout my life, but it was the uncontrollable rages and aggression out of the blue and being spiteful and angry at me for whatever reason she dreamt up that was the end of our relationship for me. Like you the older I got (I’m now early 50s) the less I found I was willing to tolerate it.

I think trying not to see your mum often is a good way of coping, mine lived 10 mins away and I would have loved to just have to do a duty visit every few months for a couple of hours instead of endless constant demands. Can you lengthen the duration between visits a bit more? That would allow you to hopefully disassociate yourself from all the negative stuff around her more, I didn’t have the option for that.

I did try to get my mum to change her behaviour to me for about 5 years before I cut her off, but the pattern was too established and she was incapable or unwilling. In the end I had to do what was best for me. It’s unlikely your mum will change, so bear that in mind with whatever path you take. We tolerate from family what we never would from friends, and if we tolerated that in a romantic relationship it would be called abusive and toxic. However we are programmed from childhood to accept dysfunctional relationships with parents. All the best in navigating the way forward!

I agree she's not going to change now. Yea there could be an underlying reason but even if there is it doesn't change the outcome.

You need to figure out what is manageable for you. Decided how much contact you are comfortable with and how you will manage her going forward when she attacks. So you would be in control not her. Find things/people to support you when you're struggling.

Mine's like this, and worse too. We've never got on and I was terrified of her as a child. About 10 years ago I decided to reduce contact for my own mental health. I just didn't want to be abused in this way by her any more. Now our contact is down to probably 3 or 4 meets a year, for between 10 mins and an hour, depending on how I guage her mood to be. She doesn't like it but that's just tough. I feel sad because I no longer really have a relationship with my very elderly Dad, but really, it's the only way.

At some point, you're going to have to put your own needs first, rather than continually enabling her bad behaviour. You matter, just as much as her.

This is excellent.

Like many others in this thread I put up with my parents’ behaviour for decades, then went through a very difficult period, became absolutely exhausted and realised that it would never change. I’m now NC with my mother and my sister. Life is much better as a result and I’d rather deal with the guilt than either of them!

I think you need to pause before you fall for the guilting "oh you must hate me now, tell me its all ok"

It isn't OK.

Next time she starts up,can you say "I don't want to listen to this" and leave/put the phone down?

Don't get drawn into justifications/tearful apologies. Can you just say it was hard to listen to and you don't want to discuss it. And then don't. Leave it with her to deal with and don't let her lumber you with, basically, lying to her to make her feel better.

"I love you Mum but I'm not going to listen to that/say that". And don't.

I realise this is all probably a great deal easier to say than do. But try to hold on to the fact that it is hers making herself unhappy, not you. It is not your job to rescue her (and anyway, you obviously can't, as it is her doing this to herself)

Good luck 💐

Thank you all for taking the time to reply. I really appreciate it.

It's very hard to explain on the internet in a single post but she isn't a monster and she's brought far more positivity to my life than negativity. Over the years I've seen how miserable just being her seems to make her. She suffers far more than I do; she has no self-confidence left and really does feel horribly guilty every time she upsets me or my dad. It's not as though she behaves badly and never apologises, never acknowledges: she does all that and then some. She's had a lot of therapy and has been on ADs for decades. I guess I could encourage her to go back to a counsellor. Actually, I might do that. I think she might be open to it.

So I don't want to cut or minimise contact. I couldn't do that to her and I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I did.

Interesting the ND thing doesn't ring any bells with anyone: I thought it might. She is very rigid in her thinking and literal in her interpretation of things; sensitive to noise, light and heat; often misinterprets people (see above!); is quite obsessive about some things. I wondered if her explosions might actually be adult meltdowns?

Anyway, thank you again for all your input. It's good to know I'm not alone in this. All my friends seem to have such normal, reasonable relationships with their parents!

Have you any siblings was she the same with them? I have brothers and mine was very different with them I sympathise you have to step back and protect yourself she doesn’t care about you, only about herself I stepped a k to the extent mine now has no relationship with her only grandchildren ( that she was never interested in only on fulfilling her grandma fantasy in her head) she doesn’t seem bothered but all I got from my parents was hard dare you upset your mother even though they can upset whoever they like x

If you don't want to cut contact, can you at least curate it - eg along the lines I suggested above? Ie stop 'making her feel better' by accepting her apologies etc. (not your job, to reiterate)You seem very enmeshed at the moment and I doubt it is actually helping her anyway. And it definitely isn't helping you.

Great thread. Yes Im lowish contact but then she says to 3 us she sees nobody. So it goes round in circles. If your parents easy you are lucky