Twin Troubles

[VM22911]

Hoping someone will be able to help.
I have been with my partner for 4 years. I love him deeply and he is 100% the man I want to marry one day.
Just over a year ago we decided that we wanted to live together. The only way to do this was to move into his house as he is tied into a mortgage with his twin brother. They bought a 4 bed house just outside the city 6 months before we met. I never wanted to live there as it's the suburbs, far from all my friends and I didn't drive at the time. The nearest shops are a 15 minute drive away and I felt like I would be losing my independence by moving there. He drives and he and his twin share a car. I also had never lived with a partner before and did not want the first time I did to also be with his twin, in their house. It just wouldn't feel like a space for the two of us. But it became clear if I wanted to take that next step, I would have to move in with them.
For context, my partner, lets call him A, and his twin B. A has done everything with B, for their whole lives. They shared a bedroom until they were 23. They did the same degree at the same university and went into the same jobs. They have all the same friends that they go off on holiday with multiple times a year. They share a car have matching motorcycles and constantly reinforce each other's opinions about everything. I often say they are the twiniest twins to ever twin. This became clear early on and we had to really work on our communication because if ever we argued, he would often compare me to his twin and wonder why we couldn't solve things the way he and his twin would. I am A's first partner and B has never had a girlfriend. They are 29 and I am 26. They come from a very close family where they are 2 of 7 kids.
We moved in and ultimately it was disappointing as everything I feared would happen, happened.
The walls are very thin, we have very little privacy... for anything and I hear everything his brother does. We didn't even assemble our new bed alone. Often we can be cuddled up watching television and his twin will come down to talk to him about something that derails our plans. Even if the twin goes out, my partner goes with him. Regardless of what we're doing. B also used to clean. Until I moved in and now my partner and I are left to do everything. I watch them go out together 3 times a week to play sports with their friends while I sit at home. Which is fine, but then they come home and play video games, often late into the night and I have to go to bed alone. I felt trapped and isolated. I learnt to drive and started trying to save money for my own car. They don't charge me rent so at least it helps me save money. Although, when it comes to decisions about buying things for the house, we discuss it and they always agree and go for the more expensive options, completely disregarding that I don't make as much money as them.
I was absolutely losing my mind when I applied to my dream postgrad course in another city. A is a remote worker and agreed to move with me for a year for the course. I didn't think we would survive if I went alone and it would be too expensive otherwise. Many people on the course who were doing long distance have broken up, because the course is intense.
Just before we leave, I find out from B that they are all going away on holiday a few weeks after we move. I find this out at a family dinner and A says he didn't tell me because he didn't know how serious the plans were, so didn't want to tell me until things were booked.
I was very hurt
I had no idea how I would feel in this new city and he was going to leave me alone. But he told me how sad he would be if everyone but him went and how this was the last holiday he'd have with a friend who was having a baby soon so I let it go and he went.
He came back and even though we both miss our old city and he misses his friends, I am very happy on my course and he has been so supportive. Our communication is better than ever and I don't think our relationship has ever been this strong. It is so nice to have our own space and even he has admitted he prefers it this way. Although he has felt very isolated and bored in the new city.
Then unfortunately, I was attacked outside our apartment. I am okay but the police are involved and now he meets me at the bus stop. I am leaning on him more now and am very scared by myself
He has to go on a stag do next month, and on top of that his twin is planning on going on 2 more holidays and he wants to go too. I feel so unsafe and left behind. We have only been on one holiday together in the time we have been dating whereas him and his twin and their friends have been on multiple. He said if I wasn't studying then I would be invited but I never get asked to be involved in the plans so that feels hard to believe.
I have been struggling with all this while we have come back to visit for Easter break. The house is a mess, his brother keeps interupting our time together and I am just sick of the sight of him all over again. It feels like we have lost all that progress and I feel like I might spend this whole relationship getting left behind.
I dread coming back here when this course is over because it just feels like we're going to go back to how we were and that will make me feel trapped and miserable all over again.
Living here was supposed to be temporary to save money but it feels like there is no end in sight and I have no idea what to do.
I love him so much and want to make this work but have no idea how to tell him how I feel. He is very defensive of his twin and I can't speak to him about these things without him getting defensive and often angry. He shuts down and stonewalls me.
I am so lost and just need some help... some advice... anything

Im sorry to say I dont think anything is going to change here… they seem to come as a package. I get that twins are close (2 sets in my family) but this is too way too much. Sadly B will always be more important than you..

I don’t know what you were thinking. This has nightmare are written all over it. Move out tomorrow!

I think I thought it would be temporary and our time and space would be respected

This is all sorts of unhealthy codependency.

Walk away op

Until and unless twin B gets a gf, i wouldn't expect anything to change in this awful dynamic. You'll never be prioritised, and you'll be unwillingly in a partnership of 3.

As a parent of adult identical twin sons all I can say to you, is that you have to accept that the twin relationship is the closest human relationship there is. After watching my sons grow up I still find it hard to get my head round how close the are and have always been. Your partner, and his twin are behaving perfectly normally (to them).
They will not understand any type of "neediness" in another person as they have always had the support of each other. Things will improve when your partners twin gets a partner of his own, (got any friends you can introduce to him!)
You either put up, or get out, they will not change the habits of a lifetime overnight, and you should understand this, the twin "relationship" is something most people have no close experience of, and there is no reason to.
Just be mindful that this is probably your partners first experience in having a close relationship with someone other than his twin, just try some patience and understanding, its a very complex situation for him and a learning curve.
Good luck

As another parent of twins, that twin relationship is extremely unhealthy, and their parents/family have likely reinforced this sickening co-dependence.

My twins are in no way like your BF OP. They are individual people who can operate separately and have never been treated as a set by us and we stopped others from doing that as well. We have well adjusted kids who have boundaries and demonstrate normal behaviour in close relationships. The 'twin bond' is only a thing if immediate caregivers play into it.

Get out OP. You will never be accepted into this weird dynamic.

This sounds like a nightmare and I agree with everyone else that nothing will change until twin gets a partner too. Even then you’re going to have to put up with some of this stuff always if you get married to this guy. You need to decide if it’s a deal breaker. I don’t think it’s fair to expect you to live with the twin when you’re married etc, so they must have a plan about the house long term. Have you had this kind of conversation?

I personally would not set up any of my friends with him. I have the more sensitive brother. Perhaps because of him being nearly 30 and never dated, I've heard him express some views on women and relationships that I would label a little misogynistic. This adds to my discomfort somewhat. They have a very insular friend group. One of their close friends only getting a girlfriend this year at the age of 30.

They have said that the plan for the house was always just until they got their own places. But they would have a 30 year mortgage to get out of.

We both need to save money after living where we are for my studies as it is much more expensive, so staying in that house will allow us both to do that.

I've tried to ask for a timeline and a plan on how long until we get our own place.

But he doesn't see the point in planning anything because he says the plan now is to finish my course.

I don’t know what you expected but I think you expected too much.

I'm a twin, we were close but not identical. Twin relationships are special, but I agree with a PP this sounds like an unhealthy co dependency that has been encouraged/reinforced in their childhood to the extent that it's now their normal. We were separated in school classes as teachers felt it was important we developed our independence for example. It sounds like A and B have been treated as a pair and that's what they're used to being.

Sorry but it sounds like they're too ingrained in this way of living for anything to change. I think A's only chance of a long term relationship is one where the partner is happy to live separately and keep things low key (eg that might say, suit someone will children who isn't going to move in with someone) I can't see you guys being compatible in your wants/needs.

I don't understand how he can afford to live with your in the city where you study, yet said previously that you could only live together in the house he owns with his twin? Where has the extra money come from?

He has an extremely well paying job. When we were discussing it, he simply was not willing to rent when he'd so recently purchased a house that he was still paying a mortgage on.
It wasn't until living there for nearly a year that I got into my course. I'd applied to places in our city but just happened to get a place elsewhere and because it was my dream and I worried about being able to do it alone, he agreed to come with me. But it wasn't easy. He hadn't decided he'd come with me until 2 months before we moved, 4 months after I'd been offered the place. He wasn't sure if he could afford it but he can because his brother agreed to take on the house bills himself. Which was a big step because even while on the one holiday we've been on together, his brother was getting him to split petrol money with him for the car. Even though he was in another country and hadn't been using the car...

I really want go comment but there's just too much and my mind is frazzled that anyone would put up with any of this.
And to the pp who says this is normal is wrong. It's unhealthy, it's weird and extremely sad that you think any different. Even if B gets a partner, they'd still expect constant double dates, holidays, whatever and every time a relationship splits up (which they most definitely will) the other twin will become the main focus again.
I don't care how identical and close you are, not to be able to live an independent life is all kinds of wrong

It clearly isn't working and never will. Just end the relationship and save yourself the stress. Life is too short for this shit. Run for the hills and this time next year you will be a different person and so glad.

Twins have funny quirks but these two are co-dependent. I dont think your partner will change even if his brother does have a partner.

Have you discussed the privacy issues and holidays? Can you go on holiday with him? Ir make holiday plans together? Tell his brother not to interrupt on certain evenings you're together.

Generally I agree with above comments... its unlikely to change and your expectation will not be met.

How did you meet him?

What made him think that living in an isolated house in the suburbs was a good thing for a single young (ish) man to do?

How long had you been dating him before you met the twin?

Do they actually work for the same employer or just work in the same profession? I know twin women who went to the same medical school, I guess that is a bit odd on the face of it and they did share a student flat, but they do live normal, independent lives with husbands and kids now, different specialisms in different hospitals.

To be honest your partner's lifestyle all sounds like awfully hard work. Relationships don't have to be this hard. Might be time to move on.

Honestly, OP, just quit on this one now. Your boyfriend's primary relationship isn't with you - and probably never will be. he is what he is. In fairness, he certainly didn't hide anything from you. You would be settling for being second best forever AND having a third person in your relationship.

The thing about all those holidays and time out with his twin is when you are falling in love with someone you usually don't want to go on holidays all the time without them. you usually don't want to spend most of your evenings away from them or playing video games with your twin. you kind of love being with them. I'm not saying people shouldn't go on holidays without their significant others or have a social life without them and friends - of course you should. But at the stage you are at, when dh and I were at that point, if I arranged to go off on a weekend with friends, I'd love it but really miss him too. I certainly wouldn't have been aching to go on two or three holidays with friends without him.

I honestly think you should move on. Some day this relationship will become a story for you "omg let me tell you about the time I dated this lovely guy but he was a twin and well .. there were three of us in THAT relationship"

I also don't think this is a healthy twin relationship - certainly doesn't look like any of the twin or triplet relationships I know. But if he and his twin are happy, that's their business

Just to clarify, not that it's that important. They aren't actually identical twins. They're fraternal.
I don't imagine double dates will ever be a thing. He won't even talk to his brother about dating. He didn't even tell him brother about me until a couple of dates in.
I think it's hard for me to have perspective on this. Part of me feels like I'm being unreasonable and it's just "a twin thing I will never understand" as some people have posited. He also assures me that I'm not competing with his brother. So sometimes I feel a little silly for letting this get to me.
I have mentioned the holiday stuff and he'll mention that if wasnt studying this year I'd be invited. He then tells me of all the holidays he was planning on taking me on before covid hit. Although he never discussed them with me. The one holiday we took as to see my family abroad and I had to nag him about the tickets. He also will claim that I wouldn't like the holidays. All of his friends and the twin are big Disney adults and like going to the parks. Which just isn't me at all.
I've discussed the privacy issues and he either stays silent or asserts that it's B's house too.
We met on a dating app.
They chose a house in the suburbs because they wanted somewhere cheaper than the city with a garage for their motorcycles. I know that sounds silly, but he genuinely asserts that that is the reason.
We were 7 dates in, a month and a half into the relationship when I met the twin.
They have worked for the same employer at the same job multiple times in their careers but now work for separate employers.
Am I being unreasonable for wanting his primary relationship to be with me?

It doesn't matter if you are or are not. You have to accept this is the price to pay for being with this guy. Is it too high?

Bide your time and finish your course - him being there part time is better than you being alone while you finish. Spend the rest of your time deciding whether you want to move back to their house.

Well, you know of course that you are not being unreasonable. The problem is that he thinks you are being U and doesn't seem motivated to change. If you have laid your cards on the table and he is arguing about it then I'm sorry but he's just not that into you. If he was properly crazy about you then he'd listen and act and would but want to be going on holidays with other people.

"I am A's first partner and B has never had a girlfriend. They are 29 and I am 26."
And you've been together for four years, so got together when you were 22 and he was 25. 25 year-old twin brothers buying a house together. That's quite a financial commitment to each other. Even if they make the case that they had to get on the property ladder ASAP, it makes it clear that they expected to be living together for several years at least - they would lose money (on fees, stamp duty etc.) otherwise. How long do you think they anticipated living together?

"Living here was supposed to be temporary to save money but it feels like there is no end in sight and I have no idea what to do."
It feels that way because it is that way. There is no end in sight.

"I love him so much and want to make this work but have no idea how to tell him how I feel."
Why do you love him? I'm not seeing anything particularly loveable in his behaviour. He shows very little consideration of you, living essentially a bachelor's life with his twin, and having you on tap for sex. If you question him
"He is very defensive of his twin and I can't speak to him about these things without him getting defensive and often angry. He shuts down and stonewalls me." Not very loving towards the woman who moved into an unsuitable home to be with him. And this is "the more sensitive brother"? Really?

You say of his brother that perhaps "because of him being nearly 30 and never dated, I've heard him express some views on women and relationships that I would label a little misogynistic. This adds to my discomfort somewhat." I should think it does add to your discomfort. After all, you also say of these brothers that they "constantly reinforce each other's opinions about everything". You know that what B expresses, A thinks. Don't you?

"They have a very insular friend group. One of their close friends only getting a girlfriend this year at the age of 30."
There is an old saying, that 'a man is known by the company that he keeps'. Look at his friends and his brother, they are an unfiltered version of him. He'll tone it down to your face, but - birds of a feather flock together. And this particular flock sound like a bunch of incels. Women are the great unknown, hence the misogyny and lack of relationships. And just because your boyfriend isn't actually celibate (he has you) doesn't mean he's lost the mindset that comes with it.

"I love him deeply and he is 100% the man I want to marry one day."
Again, why do you love him? Because I am really wondering if you love an idea of him rather than the actuality. He managed to impress the 22 year-old you to such an extent that you moved to a deeply unsuitable house (suburbs etc.) just to be with him. You put up with the deeply unsuitable living arrangement of his brother being there. You continue to put up with the deeply unsuitable being treated as an afterthought whilst he lives the bachelor life with his "very insular friend group".

I suspect you have fallen prey to the Sunk Costs Fallacy, whereby, having invested so much of yourself into this relationship, you are unwilling to let it end because then, you would have 'wasted' the past four years. And so you suppress your doubts and your discontent and talk of "the man I want to marry one day". Personally, I think you need to give yourself a shake and look at your reality. You are not his priority. You're not even a close second to his twin, you are trailing far behind his incel friends and his sport three times a week and his video gaming late into the night. You are an afterthought.

So, you asked for advice. You won't like mine, but I hope you take it.

Leave this relationship. You're only 26, there's a big wide world out there and it is your oyster. Don't consider the last four years to be wasted but do consider them to be a learning experience from which it is time to move on. Do not throw good money after bad, in your case do not spend more years on a relationship that will never deliver anything more than it does right now. In this relationship, you will always play second fiddle to his twin, his friends, his sports, his video console. Moving on, you will find a respectful partner who will make you feel loved and cherished and his priority, and you will be happy. Leave this relationship and move on. It's time. ((hug))

Excellent post @WhereYouLeftIt

All this "The One" business. Trust me when I was younger I thought every boyfriend was "The One". Trust an old cynic like me that you really do get over them. You'd be better off on your on than with him.

Stop trying to change him.