Are these valid worries or am I making excuses?

[tootsygirl123]

Hoping for a bit of hand hold.

I've been with DH for 10 years, married for 6. We have 2 infant DC. We both work and work well together sharing household tasks and childcare. I'd still say I was very much primary caregiver for the most part but he is a very hands on and loving dad.

I typed a long post about all the issues in our relationship that I was hoping to get some objective perspective on, but when I read it back I realised I already knew what you'd all say. He is critical of me over slight mistakes, jokes about me being hopeless or unable to "adult". He thinks I'm overly sensitive and that he can't talk to me for that reason. I wouldnt go as far as to call him controlling, but he is definitely overbearing and domineering and its been affecting my self-confidence over time to point I feel almost unable to make simple decisions without him or without being hyper alert to his take on things. He has a tendency to be passive aggressive and there have been at least two instances of what I can only describe as verbal assaults (shouting, swearing & name calling).

Having said all of this, 90% of time he is supportive (practically but rarely emotionally although he doesnt think im supportive of him either), and we have a lot of laughs and are on the face of it a happy family. And I think we are for the most part and when we are like this, I feel content, but inevitably something happens and the tense atmosphere returns. It's a cycle.

I'm forgetful and much more laid back than he is, I know he finds me difficult to live with and he thinks I'm perpetually negative and dramatic so I'm sure his perception of all of this is completely different, but I do feel deep down that its toxic at best, abusive at worst (although saying that out loud makes me feel like I'm exaggerating).

I think everyone here will tell me to leave. The reasons I've given myself for not doing it are:

• I'm scared he has it in him to manipulate the situation when it comes to custody of DC. Although Id like to think he wouldnt do this to the kids, I don't think I'd put it past him to lie about me to get custody.

• There was a domestic incident in my past (previous relationship) that I worry he would potentially use against me again to influence custody arrangements.

• I'm worried he would sour DC against me. I couldn't live with that.

Am I catastrophizing or are these valid worries? I really need some perspective as I can't see the wood for the trees.

The 'cycle' and 90% being ok are warning signs of a bad situation.
The 10% thing is what women's aid told me was typical of an abusive partner

It's so hard to offer advice really as we've only got your perspective. You say you are largely content and have lots of laughs that you work well together that you are happy as a family for the most part? So the occasional row sounds "normal" to be honest. If you think he is likely to manipulate a custody situation then I'd personally be staying put until your children are older?

Thanks. That's my worry, that everyone argues and nitpicks at times so perhaps it isn't as bad as I sometimes think it is.

What he is showing you here is the nice/nasty cycle of abuse and that is a continuous one. Your children will also be affected by growing up in such an environment as they, in addition to seeing you being abused, will become further tuned in to dad's moods dictating their household.

re your comment:
"I think everyone here will tell me to leave. The reasons I've given myself for not doing it are:

• I'm scared he has it in him to manipulate the situation when it comes to custody of DC. Although Id like to think he wouldnt do this to the kids, I don't think I'd put it past him to lie about me to get custody.

He is already trying to manipulate these children now and will certainly do that in your presence. Many abusers demand and or otherwise insist on 50/50; they use that as a further way of "punishing" the mother for she having the gall to leave this perfect specimen of manhood. He has no real interest in 50/50 and given how little he is involved with them anyway he will just use that as a stick to beat you with

• There was a domestic incident in my past (previous relationship) that I worry he would potentially use against me again to influence custody arrangements.

Totally irrelevant. You are no longer with this person.

• I'm worried he would sour DC against me. I couldn't live with that.
He's likely already trying to do that by making himself out to be the victim.

How did you arrive at a figure of 90% anyway; its nowhere near that and it was likely plucked by you out of thin air. There is no basis or reason for that figure whatsoever. Would you want either of your children to be in a relationship similar to this as adults; no you would say and you would want better for them.

As he is abusive the relationship is well and truly over; the only acceptable level of abuse in a relationship is none. He is not going to make it at all straight forward for you to leave him because he is abusive but you need to put plans in place, and sooner rather than later, for leaving him. Look into seeking legal advice (knowledge here is also power) and contact Womens Aid.

Staying potentially till the children are older (how much older?) is an absolute non starter of an idea and will not help either you or your kids.

He's been destroying your confidence for a long time, can you take steps to work on rebuilding yourself?

I'm married to a nit-picker who is prone to being passive-aggressive, overbearing and controlling, the more confidence I have in myself and my decision making, the less I let him get in my head and the more I can stand up for myself.

It's not a great situation to be in and I'd leave if I could, but it's not always that easy to just pick up and go.

It appears also that you went from one abusive relationship into another one. This is not an uncommon scenario at all and your man is an abuser. Your boundaries, already skewed by poor relationship experience and or past abuse, are being further got at by this master manipulator of a man now. This is not just argument and nickpicking; this is a deliberete campaign of abuse against you. Abuse like this creeps up on people gradually and unawares, and he has further ramped up the power and control against you over time.

This is your description of him

1. He is critical of me over slight mistakes
2. He jokes about me being hopeless or unable to "adult".
3. He thinks I'm overly sensitive and that he can't talk to me for that reason.
4. He is definitely overbearing and domineering and its been affecting my self-confidence over time to point I feel almost unable to make simple decisions without him or without being hyper alert to his take on things.

5.He has a tendency to be passive aggressive and there have been at least two instances of what I can only describe as verbal assaults (shouting, swearing & name calling).

Emotionally healthy and or otherwise non abusive men DO NOT act like the above. I would also think its one rule for you and quite another for him in that you feel unable to call him out on any aspect of his behaviour. He wants to put you down and keep you in a cage to make his own pathetic self feel better. He will damage your children in similar ways to how you are being harmed now particularly if you were to choose to stay for the next x number of years. It will also appear far harder to leave because over time he will continue to ground you down ever more.

usererror99 · Today 08:57
It's so hard to offer advice really as we've only got your perspective. You say you are largely content and have lots of laughs that you work well together that you are happy as a family for the most part? So the occasional row sounds "normal" to be honest. If you think he is likely to manipulate a custody situation then I'd personally be staying put until your children are older?
I agree with this* *to be honest, nothing is perfect so 90% happy sounds pretty good to me.
'I'm forgetful and much more laid back than he is, I know he finds me difficult to live with and he thinks I'm perpetually negative and dramatic'
If you are honest with yourself is there any truth in this? MN is very quick to encourage women to leave their DH but very rarely does anyone question the woman's version of events (it can be very anti man on here).For example, my husband would admit he is forgetful and it is a bit of a running joke in our family. What people don't tend to see is me working in the background to make sure his forgetfulness doesn't impact our family, it is tiring and stressful for me constantly sorting things out that he has forgotten.
If I posted that on here (along with the negative and dramatic comments) I would most likely be told to leave him.
I think your relationship is probably salvageable if you want it to be.

It is not easy to leave but no-one is suggesting you just pick up and go. Leaving takes time and you need a plan of escape as well as support ideally from friends/family, Womens Aid and a good Solicitor. Fear of him, fear of the unknown and financial concerns are three of many valid reasons why women feel unable to leave.

These men do not want you as their chosen target to go (they like having their house elf around to otherwise abuse and mistreat whilst they sit there) but its not easier to stay. You're describing a slow death by 1000 cuts and if there are children involved they see all this at first hand and learn damaging lessons about relationships. Trying to protect them from their father's abuses of you whilst you are all under the same roof is impossible. Teach your children that the only acceptable level of abuse in a relationship is none.

"If you are honest with yourself is there any truth in this? MN is very quick to encourage women to leave their DH but very rarely does anyone question the woman's version of events (it can be very anti man on here).For example, my husband would admit he is forgetful and it is a bit of a running joke in our family. What people don't tend to see is me working in the background to make sure his forgetfulness doesn't impact our family, it is tiring and stressful for me constantly sorting things out that he has forgotten".

Is he that forgetful at work too?. Why are you running yourself half ragged to save him from his own apparant forgetfullness?. He is an adult with agency too so let him indeed see the consequences of his actions. Stop saving him from it. I sincerely hope his forgetfullness is not actually of strategic incompetence; i;e doing a home based task that badly so you'll never be asked to do that again.

It s not necessarily anti men on here at all; how did you at all form that conclusion?. I can only go by what the OP herself has stated and she has stated a lot of concerning behaviour re her man. I would also think her man is quite plausible to those in the outside world too and that he is all sweetness and light to others. It is behind closed doors that their true nature emerges.

What steps have you taken to rebuild yourself?

Because his forgetfulness is only a small part of a much bigger picture. That is my point.
We have been together for 20 years, 2 amazing children and a happy life.
I just don't think some things are worth re starting an entirely new life for, I appreciate others will disagree but I just wanted to offer a different perspective.

Yes I do think there is truth to this. I'm definitely laid back about certain things and forgetful. I don't think I'm negative as much as I am a worrier. I don't think I'm dramatic and have never been described as such by anyone else.

I've always thought things were salvageable but it seems they only are if we both change fundamental things about our personalities.

Abusive or not, it doesn't sound like you're compatible. Many people say 'opposites attract' and you can balance each other out but one dynamic that always seems to end badly is the parent/child relationship dynamic. I've been there myself and I'm now divorced.

If one person in the relationship views the other as too laid back, forgetful, incapable etc they tend to 'parent' them by taking over everything or constantly be frustrated with them. It chips away at your confidence and self esteem and it's not a healthy relationship. I've always considered myself confident and capable, then I met my husband. He's a lovely guy, no shouting or passive aggressive behaviour etc but he's very organised, focused, logical etc and I'm more laid back. Slowly but surely we entered the parent child dynamic where he felt the need to take control of situations as he thinks he's more capable than me. I resonated when you said you feel incapable of making decisions as that's exactly how I felt. I started driving less because I don't particularly like it then he just took over doing it completely. I think he saw it as helping me by taking on things I don't like doing. He took over all the life admin, finances etc. It sounds crazy but you don't even see all of this happening at the time you think they're just being helpful and looking after you. I didn't recognise myself in the end.

It was me who decided I wanted to separate and divorce and although it wasn't easy at first I've got my life back and I'm happier than ever. I'm not always confident driving or dealing with paperwork etc but I have to do it now and I love the sense of achievement doing things for myself. I always knew I was more than capable of doing if I was given the chance rather than getting an eye roll and 'give it here, I'll do it'. You're probably worried about him causing all kinds of issues if you got divorced because you're used to him taking over and having everything his way but he wouldn't necessarily be as bad as you're imagining.

It sounds like your DH can be aggressive with it which is a whole separate issue but as long as you stay in a relationship with this dynamic your self esteem and confidence will always suffer. My ExH really is a nice guy but someone like me who's very laid back, sensitive and forgetful is always going to drive someone organised, focused and logical absolutely bonkers and the only way they can tolerate it is to take over everything. I'm with someone now who is very similar to me and we encourage and support each other, take in turns to tackle tasks or paperwork etc or do it together and our relationship feels very happy and an equal partnership.

Sorry for the long winded response, I just wanted to share my experience as I think it might be similar in some ways. You don't have to be stuck with this and even though it feels very scary and daunting you'd be absolutely fine going it alone if you did decide that's what you want. For what it's worth, my ExH and I had a laugh together, got along, had a comfortable life but it was still killing me inside which is reason enough to get out.

I went to hypnotherapy to address self-confidence and building self esteem

@Specso your situation resonates so much with mine. Can I ask if you had any children when you divorced please?

I was like this,unhappy but is it bad enough?

I went to see a private therapist, expensive but worth it.

It was worse than I thought. I’m leaving.

Really? I'd like to hear about what you uncovered in therapy if you wanted to share.

Thanks for this. It all sounds so very familiar to me (the driving example hits nail on head). Although as you say the aggressive/passive aggressive aspects of it all make it all the more difficult

No, we didn’t have children which did make it easier. I honestly haven’t looked back though and I know 100% that I did the right thing.

Why do you think he would go for full custody of the children, because he genuinely wants to be their primary parent, or to spite you? If the latter, it’s really easy, you just convince him you can’t wait to start your life as a single woman, with the freedom to be able to go out whenever you want etc. Make him believe you WANT him to have the kids full time, and all the benefits you’ll get from that. He’ll soon change his tune.

What happens if you tell home to stop criticising you?

I suspect it causes a row because he considers himself in the right.

I've tried to. He doesn't think he's critical, he thinks he's just pointing out when things can be done better and therefore helping, says he's only joking and or that I'm too sensitive.

Good question and somewhat puts my mind at rest as I think most likely the latter. He admits that he can only handle it / them in short bursts so if he was thinking rationally I would have to hope he'd come to understand the reality of what that would mean for him.

I think the best way to determine how bad a relationship is, is for the more laid back, easygoing person to say no. How does the other person react to that no can be illuminating. My husband shouted at the top of his voice when I dared say no to drinking a blackcurrant flavoured lemsip that he had made. Wouodnt listen as to why i said no as apparently I had insulted him. Thats how I know its him, not me.

If your DH responds normally to your no, then maybe joint counselling would be the way to go.

Starting pointing out every time he is critical.