There is a blurry line between victim and abuser isn’t there?

[Itsalongtime]

I think I’ve just come to realise this. Abusers a lot of the time were once victims, they are stuck in the need for others to make them feel better. They really are still victims.

I was neglected by my parents and abused by my husband and I’m catching myself doing very similar behaviours to him now. It feels nice when people listen to you and tell you how well you have done. My ego is very weak now from what I’ve been through and seeking valuation feels good. People should just know how I feel and make me feel better just because…but really they owe me nothing that isn’t given freely. I tell my child that if you are kind others in turn will be but never to expect it. I expect things from people who I’ve given things to or at times nothing to just because I feel a bit crap inside.

I do not want to carry this identity going forward. I don’t want to become addicted so that I destroy everything for that supply. Yes it feels good but I don’t want to be a victim forever. I have a missing part of me from my childhood. I don’t really know how to get validation from within. I am proud of myself in some ways I suppose but I never feel it strong enough to mean anything.

How do I put that to bed?

@Watchkeys you put it in a way much better then I could.

I could very well become abusive to others because of what has happened to me. I am trying very hard to put my negative experience to bed and move on. Looking at yourself for what you are is very painful. If I now show abusive behaviours to my children and partner because I don’t have a handle on my triggers it will be my fault. It’s shit it really is because it was never my job to fix someone else’s issues but it is my job nonetheless if I don’t want others to continue the suffering.

It’s extremely hard and I can see how easy it is to not be able to break the cycle. I am trying the best I can. I am by no means perfect and I’m pretty sure my children will be effected some way or another (as I’m sure children with what could be seen as having “normal” upbringings can be), my own hope is that I have enough awareness to keep this as minimal as possible. One thing I can do when I know I’m wrong is to tell them why I’m wrong and what I should do better. Hopefully they will see that it’s ok to be flawed as long as we keep working and trying.

Looking at yourself for what you are is very painful

But there's nothing wrong with you, so why is it painful?

Realising that there is nothing wrong with you is absolutely key to not repeating the cycle. Having a handle on your triggers isn't about not being triggered by those things anymore, but about recognising that you're healthier when you keep them out of your path. Your triggers will trigger you, you can't help that, and that's because you're normal.

You seem to think that you will likely be abusive if you can't squash your triggers and tell people you're flawed. Why?

@Watchkeys Ive development an anger myself. I was never angry before I met my partner. I get angry when people don’t meet my needs, I expect them to. I get angry when my oldest is not respectful. I get angry around loud noises or too many people or when Im tired or people don’t offer support. I used to be anxious and a bit dissociative which I’m not so much now.

I know it’s ok to get angry but am I really angry at that particular instance and I find it hard to diffuse. I find it hard to diffuse a lot of emotions. I hate the stigma but I’m sure I have a emotional disorder. Everything feels more then I think it needs to.

Getting angry is one thing. How you behave in response to it is another.

You don't need to change your feelings. You are meant to feel them. They are supposed to happen. It's like when you break a bone; you can't just be expected to carry on as normal. You have to cater for the pain and recovery period. You don't have to not hurt.

You can be angry and hurt without being abusive. You are in charge of your behaviours. If someone upsets you, you might feel like poking their eyes out, and that's fine. It's fine to feel like that. But your behaviour is up to you. You can choose whether to poke their eyes out or not.

You need to take responsibility for your behaviour. At the moment, you sound like it might do things without you, as if it is an independent being; it isn't. If it was, who would be in charge of it? You are an adult. This is up to you.

I feel a lot of my emotions, especially the more negative ones are a little alien to me and I’ve not worked out how to diffuse them. Yes it’s my job now to do that. Whether I had them before and ignored them I’m not sure.

I get the feeling I’ve always tried to manage other peoples feelings to avoid them in myself. I am not in that kind of relationship anymore with people and myself.

I remember when I lost mu dad and I felt so many things especially anger. I couldn’t express them because my mum was cold and my husband was not interested in how I felt. If I’d have shown anger he would have hit me or reflected me

Rejected

You don't have to 'diffuse' anything. Your emotions are a representation of who you are. It's easy to see positive emotions in this way, i.e. playing tennis makes me happy, going to art galleries stimulates me, I love to go rock climbing etc. But negative emotions are you, too. Why do you think you should diffuse you? Do you think that's a respectful thing to do to yourself?

@Watchkeys its the diffusing the escalation I have trouble with. Eg if I can’t get something to work hitting it won’t make it better. Eg I got wound up with someone and I hit the bookcase and I hurt my hand. I was on my own at that point later but still I shouldn’t have done that or let my anger take over me. Or I get jealous and wish something bad to happen, that’s not nice of me and a bit childish.

Yes, I see that. But you're confusing 'diffusing the feelings' with 'controlling the actions'.

Can you see the point I'm making? The issue isn't that you were angry. The issue was that you hit a bookcase because that was the only way you could understand, in the moment, to 'be' angry.

What would you have screamed out angrily, if you'd chosen to scream it out instead? That's what you need to look at. Hitting the bookshelf wasn't anything to do with the reasons you felt angry. There will be words in the anger sometimes. My example of this was that every time I got triggered, the underlying screaming, rageful sentence of fury was 'YOU'RE NOT LISTENING TO ME!!!!' Honestly, it was that simple. If someone talked over me over the counter in a shop, if my partner changed the subject, if someone laughed when what I'd said wasn't meant to be funny... all these random-seeming situations, and it felt like whack-a-mole, I never knew where it would crop up next.

Identifying the meaning in the trigger is crucial, I think. It's there for a reason. Sure, be upset that you lost your shit and hit a bookcase, that's fine, we've all messed up sometimes, and you did, then. But don't be trying not to be angry. The anger is trying to tell you something. Listen hard. It's your heart speaking, and currently you've got her trapped under 'SHUT UP YOU'RE RUINING MY LIFE', when all she wants to do is lead you to peace.

Oh I see what you mean. I guess underlying all my outbursts is the feeling but what about me, I want to be heard, I want some attention, it’s not fair.

I sound like a 5 year old. When someone has something good I want it. I’m pissed of that I haven’t achieved it because my life has been a war. I got pregnant and I was pissed off that a colleague announced the same weeks later, I wanted to feel special and her news took from mine at work. I was pissed my brother announced his pregnancy at my engagement party. That was my limelight. I’m pissed my sister in law is buying a nice house because I want that but I’ve spent my whole life in war because of my poor childhood that I’ve not achieved that. It’s not fair. I’ve no idea how to accept that. I’ve only ever been shown to either pretend it’s ok, if you do show an emotion there’s consequences. No one has told me that’s is ok to be angry, jealous etc and what to do instead of either hit out or shut up. I’ve tried not to be jealous or angry but I am.

I guess I’m pretty pissed off at everything and everyone. Like a 5 year old when someone has what they want, they don’t know what to do so sabotage what the other has.

I was my mum’s scapegoat. The sun shone out of my brothers arse and it still does and that’s not fair. I took all the same exams as him but I couldn’t match up because I am different. He is successful and I’m not. I was controlled as a child and he wasn’t. He has said to me I made my own bed, I’ve chosen my life. I could have had a nice big house if I wanted. But I really couldn’t because I was fighting my childhood and he wasn’t, he was better equipped! Everyone in my life blames me and so do I at times because I’ve heard it so much.

OK. That's all massively valuable stuff. The 5 year old you feel like is actually the 5 year old you. Does that sound nuts? She's basically been yelling and screaming since then, and still, nobody's heard her. Fundamentally, the problem is that you don't hear her. You don't respect her. You don't acknowledge her. And so she does what any disrespected, unheard, unacknowledged 5 year old does: she screams her head off and has a massive tantrum.

What does she want? It's time for you to look after her. Your family didn't. Nobody ever has, poor little thing. What does she need?

She needs some understanding and guidance but also to know that hitting out is unacceptable. I’m in this situation with my own daughter and I have no knowledge of how to help her. I tell her it’s ok to be angry but we must not bite but then I’m lost at what to tell her to do with the energy of that feeling. I tell her it’s ok if someone has a toy you don’t but we don’t break or steal their toy, then I’m at a loss again. I guess for me I would distract my brain with something exciting and shiny so I look away. I’ve got a screaming baby and sleep deprived so I’m crap at doing any of my own suggestions.

I don’t want to be jealous and wish their house falls through, thats not really a nice thought to have.

But jealousy isn't about what they have, it's about what you don't have. It's internal. It's got nothing to do with them, and everything to do with you. This is all about looking inwards, and understanding you.

Have you suggested to your daughter than she says how she feels? She can say it out loud, she can say it in her head, she can go into the middle of the playground and scream it, she can have special 'ANGRY' pens to draw pictures of the anger, she can jump up and down, she can have a squashy ball to squeeze all holy bejeezus out of whenever she feels the feeling... you can do all these things too. Except the screaming in the playground. People would look... but you can do it in the car or into a pillow.

Expressing it is the way forward. Supressing it, as you know, leads to explosions. I wrote everything down. I had my own ANGRY red pen, and I wrote down whatever was pissing me off the most, and wrote everything I could think of about it, until I ran out of words. Some things I wrote about for weeks before I talked myself out. Then I'd move on to something else that was PISSING ME OFF. After a while, the child inside me stopped having a tantrum, because someone was listening to her. Things didn't feel so unfair any more. And then, she turned into a calm voice... she grew up, and became my healthy boundaries. Now she says things to me like 'I don't like it around this person. Can we just leave, and try to avoid them in the future?', when previously, she would have been screaming 'ARSEHOLE ARSEHOLE ARSEHOLE!!!' inside me, and I'd have been wishing she'd shut up and let me be an adult.

Does that make sense?

I’ve had to do that with the baby when she won’t stop screaming. Put her down and go into another room and cry my eyes out, then I feel like I should be able to cope because others do. But then I’ve been through a lot and the noise triggers me. I’ve bought some noise reducing ear plugs now.

I feel like that with my in laws, their company makes me feel shit as they so old fashioned in their thinking. They make me feel I’m over reacting. I say I’m struggling with the baby one day as she has a Heath issue so she cries a lot. They just reply well that’s babies…yeah shit thanks.

I feel like I should be able to cope because others do

'Shoulds' come from external sources. Who says you 'should' be able to cope? That's not rhetorical, I'm actually asking you whose rules you're feeling you should be obeying?

Pretty much everyone that is or has been in my life. All my family would say that to me and my in laws. None of them know what I’ve been through or even want to understand any of it.

Yes I guess it’s about the things people have that I don’t have. I can’t even get what they have because it should have been given as a child and everything that’s happened because of that that I’ve missed I can’t have either. It’s crap. I’ve got a lot and what I have got I’ve earned a 1000 x over despite people telling me otherwise.

Then why should be able to do what they would think you should do, seeing as they're like a manager who has no clue about the person they're managing? They're fools, aren't they, who think your world exists in a way that it doesn't?

Who do you think is actually supposed to set the rules for you about what you should/shouldn't do?

Those fools make me feel very sad and alone. None of them actually see me or care about how I feel. I’m struggling at the moment with a new baby and an older child. Im not depressed Im just struggling as she cries most of the time and I get maximum 3 hours sleep a day. I’m mad really mad because not one of these people in my life want to help me. I tell them but they aren’t listening so I tell myself I mustn’t deserve the help or I’m over reacting but I get more and more mad. Mad at the wrong people just mad seeping out all over the place. I just want to shout at the whole bloody lot of them.

It will end up being too late and then they will be like oh whats wrong with you why didn’t you ask. What’s the point in asking when they aren’t listening.

They are supposed to be my rules. But I’m afraid to enforce anything because I don’t want to be rejected by a bunch of people who aren’t exactly on my side anyway. I’ll look like a mad women if I told them what I really think about them.

I get jealous of my happy friends on Facebook etc with there easy babies and all the family members rallying around them and I’ve got no one. So I’m mad, probably as you can tell and I’m sad. My baby who I love to bits is so much work has issues with allergy and reflux and she is just grumpy and hard hard work. She doesn’t sleep and cries most of the time. So I’m sad I didn’t get the baby I wanted but I could cope if I had some support. I live her regardless.

Have the tantrum, on paper. Write it all down, every time you feel royally fucked off with them, write it down. It's not them who make me feel very sad and alone, it's you. You have to take responsibility for this.