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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

^another^ argument - and DH has just said very clearly that he's not going back to Relate.....

36 replies

FAQ · 14/02/2008 10:59

when I get back from my week away. I "have to accept to live by his rules or split"

Apparently I'm trying to "blackmail" him because I could take the house, kids, everything away from him - but "he's got nothing that he can take away from me".

He says he still wants me to be here - but for what? So that he can keep the outward appearance of "happy families"???

The issues of housework/childcare etc being my "job" came up (again) too........

OP posts:
loopylou6 · 14/02/2008 11:13

i dont know the background, but i dont like the sound of 'live by his rules or split' sounds very controling to me

hunkermunker · 14/02/2008 11:14

He needs to leave, I think, then, FAQ.

Can you get some counselling by yourself? He is treating you very badly, you know.

It shouldn't be about what you can take from each other

MrsMattie · 14/02/2008 11:15

Don't know background FAQ, but every relationship involves compromise, and your DH sounds unwilling to do this...

berolina · 14/02/2008 11:16

oh goodness, FAQ, I don't like the sound of that. It shouldn't be about one partner's 'rules'.

You poor love. Wish I could be more helpful.

hanaflower · 14/02/2008 11:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

hunkermunker · 14/02/2008 11:35

What are his "rules", btw?

TillyScoutsmum · 14/02/2008 12:13

I agree with hanaflower... don't know the background but sounds like he is taking the coward's way out by trying to make it your decision.

If he doesn't have enough respect for you to compromise and he isn't bothered about trying to make you happy, then it doesn't sound like there's anywhere to go from here...

You sound like you deserve better

hecate · 14/02/2008 12:15

So which are you going to do?

Original poster
FAQ · 14/02/2008 12:20

well his rules are that I do everything "his" way...this morning he tried to tell me that the DS's need "routine" and DS2 should know what time he has to be up by at the latest (FGS he's 4 - and while he's quite good at checking the BBC News clock in the morning and telling me it's "8 - 34" for example - he doesn't really have any concept of what time is earlier or later than an other.

I think know he's talking bollox - I've been getting up in the mornings with the DS's since the start of the school year, and getting DS1 to school, and DS2 to nursery on time - we've never been late once. Yes it sometimes gets a little stressful (usually when they're all excited and I have to keep telling them to be quiet...........so they don't disturb daddy ) but we always leave on time. And (as I told him) TBH often it's easier if I get DS2 up a little later - he gets dressed and eats his breakfast really quickly so doesn't need a lot of time. whereas when DS1 and DS2 are both up and I'm trying to get stuff sorted I often have to stop what I'm doing to sort out the inevitable "sibling" stuff that goes on.

He reckons because I frequently mention the "option" of splitting that I've already made up my mind.....actually it's the other way round I think. He shows no emotion at all (apart from accusing me of trying to blackmail him and wanting to take his kids away ) when talking about splitting (or staying together for that matter - ie he's rather ambivalent about the whole thing.

I on the other hand keep getting very emotional about the whole thing......but of course I don't care do I???? .

Actually had a lovely moment while out getting DS2 from nursery - friend of mine who I see everyday (often more than just at the nursery gates as we are involved in a lot of the same church stuff) said to me (when I told her about the latest argument and DH saying that I wanted to hurt him by taking the boys and moving miles away)

"Don't leave XXXx (our town) I'll miss you" .........nearly burst into tears when she said it.

OP posts:
Original poster
FAQ · 14/02/2008 12:22

hecate - we left Zimbabwe as we didn't want to live under a dictator rules and whims......and if when I get back from Edinburgh he still maintains he's not going back to Relate (apparently that was my responsibility to sort out more sessions I "had the money, and the time so it was up to me") then we'll split

OP posts:
Original poster
FAQ · 14/02/2008 12:24

one part of the argument was actually quite funny. I could feel myself getting very worked up - so rolled myself a ciggie and went outside to smoke it - he followed me to the back door and a small amount of raised voices/shouting continued. He then turned round and told me I should stop shouting because everyone (including the school over the back of the garden) would be able to hear.

So I did - without even having to try particularly hard I lowered my voice to a quiet talking voice while he continued to talk in a raised voice - then (still talking very loudly) he shut the back door saying "he didn't want to stand there and get cold"

Well no-one was telling him to stand there and get cold - he followed be to the effing back door!

OP posts:
Tortington · 14/02/2008 12:27

did he used to be a SAHD? am not understand ing why you have just started getting yuo with them - or have i got wrong end of stick?

i thnk a sit down conversation that says -i cant do things your way becuse thats not a partnership th is subservience. I would like to remind you that most women think this way and that its highl unlikley you would find another person in this country who would willingly be subservient to you - for that you'llhave to go to america and join a cult.

tell him that if this is the "choice" that you will willingly take the decision to split

but you wnt him to understand that taking the decision

and accepting fault/blame

are completely different issues.

tell him that you would prefer he was husband and father, but he is going to have to put some real effort in.

Carmenere · 14/02/2008 12:28

Look FAQ he is issuing you an ultimatum, one that is extreme and unworkable. How can you get past this and be happy together without you sacrificing your self esteem and dignity? And just so he can maintain his 'rules'. He is ruling what exactly?

As far as I can see the only way past this is to stand up to him and call his bluff. Move out, take the kids, show him you won't be bullied and then maybe he will respect you. Then maybe there could be a future of happiness with him. And if it doesn't work out, well maybe it is better than living under the 'rules' of a man that is supposed to love you.

I don't say this lightly but you have to stand up to this crap or else you will become a broken woman.

hunkermunker · 14/02/2008 12:33

It's not love, this, FAQ. You deserve better.

Original poster
FAQ · 14/02/2008 12:33

I know Carmenere I think that's what it's almost certainly going to come to.

Hopefully the money from my Grandad's estate will come through soon (all the letters have been sent off to life insurance companies etc) so I'll have that to get a deposit on a house/flat and get some furniture at the auction etc.

Another thing that's really bugging me now is that he always tells me "not to bring up the past/past arguments" in new ones. What happened in the past isn't what that particular argument is about etc etc.

Yet he's using my (completely inexcusable) behaviour - which stopped over 1 1/2yrs ago as his reasoning for wanting me to live by his rules now.

OP posts:
LadyMuck · 14/02/2008 12:33

Is he refusing to go to Relate or refusing to arrange to go to Relate?

It sounds as if you both need to work on your communication a lot more, as at present it doesn't sound as if you understand each other. This is where counselling can be very helpful. But I have to say that in general those couples who enter counselling with the attitiude of "we defintley want to be together but we can't stop fighting", are much more likely to succeed than those who come is with a "I'm only here to see if he/she will change and if they don't I'm off" attitude. It strikes me that the language that you are both using is "do things my way, or else". You might find that a "we are in this together but by God we've got to find something that works for us both before we kill each other" approach might work better?

Original poster
FAQ · 14/02/2008 12:38

custardo - his job means that he doesn't leave the house until around lunchtime. Even before I fell pg with DS3 we used to take it in turns getting up with the DS's in the mornings (well why not use the opportunity of regular lie-ins if they're there!).

Since DS3 was born DH has been getting up to do the night feeds (before 4am) and I got them up in the morning - I was quite happy with this as I did worry about him being up from 4am in the morning (or earlier) and then being tired at work - he job involves a LOT of driving, and most of that is in the evening and the thought of him driving while tired at night wasn't a very comforting one.

However, just after Christmas DS3 started sleeping through and not getting up at all before 4am (in the last week it's been until gone 7am!).

But he doesn't think he should get up sometimes now......as it's my job (I did tell him that when he started working over 400hrs a month and getting "paid" - that's what he classes the CB as - less than £200 a month then he could tell me how to do my job).

OP posts:
Original poster
FAQ · 14/02/2008 12:40

LadyMuck I KNOW I have to change - I've changed a lot since our (single) Relate session last year. I'm not afraid to stand there in front of him and admit my mistakes. But as far as he's concerned it's never his fault - always mine.

I WANT to find a compromise that we're both happy and comfortable with, one that is sustainable but I can't ever see that me doing things his way and not saying anything if I don't really agree with it would ever work.

He's refusing to go to Relate.

OP posts:
misdee · 14/02/2008 12:45

FAQ, tbh i wouldnt even be discussing it now, i would be out that door.

he seems very controlling and not willing to compromise at all.

Original poster
FAQ · 14/02/2008 12:47

well - we weren't supposed to be discussing it - he told me a few weeks ago when it was agreed that I was going away for a week with the DS's that he we could call a "truce" and no-one would be insisting anything was done any particular way..........funny that he seems to have quite easily forgotten his own suggestion.

OP posts:
Tortington · 14/02/2008 12:47

my opinion based on the details youhave furnished us with on ths thread are - that he has been a v.hands on daddy.

he therefore fels he has a knowledge anddepth of input on par with you -lots of dads have a'whatever..sure...you know best' attutude

so i think this i somewhat a testament to both your parenting skills that you both enoy the same level of parentin - does that make sense?

sounds like he works apaid job -is tire ad thinks its thankless

you work n upaid job, tired and its thankless

your both piss off, in a rut - lifs hard and the people you take i out on is each other.

i think you need to fight to find your joy.

i dont know hat that joy is - but youeed to create somehappiness.

ask him his opinion on som aspets of parenting -something iconsequential

stroke his face

kiss his hands

tell him you love him, you recognis he works hard. as him if he recognises you do too?

if after this he contnues to bea twat - fuck him off

LadyMuck · 14/02/2008 12:50

It is less about changing and more about learning communicate well. This current example seems to be an argument about whether and to what extent dh helps out with the children in the mornings. However it has escalated, other issues have been brought in, and suddenly it becomes the trigger to a marriage break-up.

I think that even going to Relate by yourself can help you in terms of strategies for communication and handling conflict. Or possibly something may be available through your church - try asking the vicar. I appreciate that it is hard to concentrate on obtaining and enhancing these skills when life is feeling very raw, but honestly it will help you whatever route you take int he future.

FioFio · 14/02/2008 12:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Original poster
FAQ · 14/02/2008 12:53

I've told him I love him and his answer is "you don't know what love means" .

He only actually spends anytime with the DS's at the weekends, usually just in the afternoon (saturday mornings he tends to spend most of it in bed, and Sunday I take them to church). And he thinks that "supervising" (ie popping up every so often if they start fighting) them on the PS2 (upstairs in their bedroom) is spending time with them.........usually he's downstairs watching TV/playing on the PS2 downstairs etc.

He used to be a lot more hands on - and in the past the prospect of not seeing the DS's properly for 2 weeks (as we'll be away over this weekend) would have prompted a fun filled weekend playing with them (even if it was just PS2 with them downstairs). But no - just didn't seem bothered.......he thinks that DS1 and DS2 are "old enough to entertain themselves" (well yes they are - but they do still like to spend time with daddy).

OP posts:
misdee · 14/02/2008 12:56

eg. Peter can be a bit controlling. he used to be very controlling. the only control he has now is the tin cupboard. he lines up all the tins nicely and orderly. he isnt allowed to touch the spice/ingrediants cupboard as i like that a bit disorganised. if he touches that cupboard i go and mess up his tins. or move one and put it in the wrong place.

matrriage does need working on to keep it going nicely. this has been going on for quite a while though hasnt it? i know there was a lot of issues around ds3 pregnancy and the MAP not working? does he ever talk about that at all? As i do think a lot of the current issues now do all stem from that period of time.