Do people who lack empathy expect empathy?

[Appleabananasandpears]

Definitely overthinking but there are quite a few people in my life who either stayed away from me when I was going through a hard time or who were just generally insensitive to the whole situation. Obviously people have other stuff going on in their lives but I do think default empathy levels differ from person to person and probably don’t change unless that person takes a step back at some point to self-reflect.
Anyway, I’m just wondering if people who aren’t naturally empathetic are less likely to expect empathy when they’re in a difficult situation? Are these the types to just pull their socks up and get on with it and not expect everyone to be busy trying to empathise with them, send them flowers etc etc. Sounds like a silly question just typing it out but I’m generally curious.

Empathy is subtle, it's almost like that 1 Corinthians passage about love, it's patient, kind, doesn't boast. It can be very subtle and shouldn't need an audience.

I think there is something in that people can lack it yet expect it. I've said it before but I've always noticed how the cruelest or most awfully behaved people seem to expect the best treatment from others.

Often people who boast about how empathetic they are are self obsessed and just turn round someone else's problem in to a story about how someone else's problem affected THEM because they are so empathetic.
Sometimes a practical sympathetic friend is less draining than an overempathetic one who just ups the emotional angst.

Someone not performing empathy doesn’t mean saying ‘I don’t care that your dog died’.

Arguably it’s more empathetic to react to the individual, rather than trotting out the acceptable script, or extending the reaction you would want. The latter isn’t empathetic at all really, because it’s not about the person on the receiving end of it.

I do find the people who claim to be empathetic are usually anything but. It seems more that they enjoy being seen to be, and relish the drama of making someone else’s problems about themselves.

Empathy is just having the ability to understand and share the feelings of others.

Your OP suggests that you view empathy as someone being willing or able to support someone going through something difficult.

That's not the same thing. You can understand what someone is going through but not want to/be able to support them through it.

Or even share their feelings. You can empathise as in understand someone feeling devastated at the death of a goldfish but you won't necessarily share those feelings.

I think I struggle with empathy, I am very much stiff upper lip and get on with it in my outlook.
I really don't understand when people seemingly buckle under a tiny bit if pressure and I must admit it makes me want to pull away from them as I just can't do the mental gymnastics required for me to understand them.
On the other hand, if someone lost a child I would be able to feel empathy for them as I have children and it is one of my worst fears. I don't feel the same when people lose a parent that has lived well into their 80's as I just think they had a good innings and it's at least the natural order of things.
At least I don't expect any in return though, It makes me cringe if I think someone 'feels sorry for me' and even when I had no home or belongings and the children were very young it didn't occur to me to ask for anything! I just knuckled down and sorted things by myself.
I don't necessarily think lacking in empathy is the disaster it is made out to be on here, I promise I have other positive personality traits to make up for it!

Someone not performing empathy doesn’t mean saying ‘I don’t care that your dog died’.
Sorry, I wasn't trying to suggest that was the case 😬I meant that we all try to act in a socially acceptable way to some extent.
I find this quite interesting - the performance aspect - as it's always felt very much like performance to me, perhaps as I did not learn what to do early on and tried to pick it up later. For instance, in my late teens I remember seeing someone sitting sadly on her own after an argument with her boyfriend. A friend of mine went up and put her arm round her and said something, and I thought "Oh, THAT's what you have to do in that situation!"

I think some things being described as empathy, aren't empathy!

Having empathy doesn't mean you have to support people being drama lamas.

It doesn't mean you are very needy and want people to rally round you at the slightest challenge.

It's more about understanding the impact a situation is likely to have on someone else- recognising that your 3rd (perhaps unwanted) pregnancy might be upsetting for someone wrestling with infertility.

The one that gets me regularly is the accusations of being an awful person if you complain about your mother. There's an assumption that everyone has a lovely loving mum who supported them and deserves support in return. When someone surprises you, wonder what's behind it!

I have empathy but on a practical level, I'm generally not very emotional and am seen as one of life's copers. The trouble with this is people don't think I need any support when I'm having problems and they don't know how to deal with that.

I'm having a bit of that at the moment. Listening to people who clearly won't be listening in return. It's making me a bit jaded. I'm distancing myself from a fair few folk and being generally less available.

@kitsuneghost

kitsuneghost · Yesterday 20:25
I lack empathy and expect people to be empathetic to me. I know it sounds selfish and probably is but empathy isn't really a choice. Most have it, some don't. The way I see it is I WOULD give you empathy if I had any

This is chilling. Do you have children?

My DH lacks empathy and expects very little back. He’s incredibly rational and would never sit and feel sorry for himself or want someone to sit and feel sorry with him. He cannot really fathom sadness/depression etc in others and would previously have considered it a waste of time since logically it achieves very little. I’m relatively self-sufficient so most of the time this is alright, occasionally not and we are working out how to manage this as we age! I’ve also had to encourage him to be more empathic with our children, which he is trying and succeeding in doing. The lack of spontaneous caring is the only thing that I find hard to deal with in our relationship but the flip side - the lack of self-pity, the determination, the lack of defeatist attitude, the thirst for adventure etc, more than compensates. I’d hate to be with an over-feely wet sock.

That’s true for me as well. It’s a process of watching, learning and emulating, and…adapting. Cognitive empathy, rather than the innate ‘feeling’ kind.

I don’t think the expectation of receiving empathy yet being unwilling to give it goes hand in hand with low empathy, but with narcissism. Narcissists lack/are low in empathy, but not all that lack/are low empathy are narcissistic. It makes absolute sense for someone with narcissism to see themselves as deserving of it, whilst considering others to not be.

There's social expression as well. Someone could feel hugely empathic towards someone and still not have a clue what to do about it.

The crying stranger is a good one. I can be really concerned about them, while still not knowing what to do about it. I remember a thread here where some people were adamant ignoring them was the kindest while others felt you should do or say something.

Empathy isn't the magical gift of knowing what to do in every situation!

I think it's just about the person being able to comprehend the emotion and/or the level of emotion the other person is experiencing, even if they haven't experienced the exact same themselves. So if you were sad for a day or so when a pet died rather than devastated, for example, but someone else acts or says they are devastated when a pet died, it's being able to comprehend and understand that someone could find it emotionally devastating even if you didn't, rather than being bemused.

It's hard to explain though!

IME they do. They don't get it from me tho.

This, totally.

People lacking in empathy expect LOTS of sympathy.

A very good point. For the crying stranger I would instinctively pick up on non verbal signals, body language etc as to whether to ask.

I grew up with a fairy emotional family member though, so I am quite good at assessing situations and non-verbal signals. Not in a text book way; "Oh they are crossing their arms, that means X" but more instinctively, honed from many years of wary anticipation and interpretation.

With a friend, say for example they did something embarrassing socially, I'd know if they wanted me to completely ignore it and change the subject; acknowledge it in solidarity, or laugh it off very loudly, based on a combination of knowing them personally but also reading the signals and the situation. I don't know if that's empathy (probably not) but I do know that I would size it up in a split second and act accordingly to support. So I would not for example laugh, then collect myself and then clumsily try to pretend it didn't happen after belatedly realising my friend did not appreciate the situation being brought more attention by my reaction.

No, from what I can gather they do not understand/believe in empathy.

Exactly this, you’ve explained it better than me @LilylilyDaisy

There are three people I can think of who lack the ability to empathise. I would say all three of them expect others to empathise with them, but that they wouldn't term it that (or even think of it like that).
When they report bad experiences they've had, or when they complain of pain they are feeling, they would not be able to process a lack of response. They are expecting a response so by default I would say they are expecting you to empathise.
These are the sort of people who will rarely ask others how they are. I think it is because they lack theory of mind a little. To them, what they experience is what everyone else experiences! If they're not experiencing another person's pain, then it won't really come onto their radar.

Might be slightly straying here but I often wonder if people communicated more would there be less suicides ? With trying so hard to 'not put upon others' nobody ever speaks truthfully. For example if asked, 'How are you?' the automatic response is, 'I'm good thanks.'

This social conditioning in times of tragedy translates as friends, neighbours, colleagues, family reporting, 'all seemed fine', 'they looked their usually cheery self', 'I can't believe this has happened in our quiet neighbourhood'...

I guess what I'm saying is sometimes there seems little time for sympathy and empathy coupled with the fact that people may fear being judged as clingy, needy, overthinking, complaining, moaning.....so they keep to themself.

Do you expect empathy from your TV set, or do you expect it to respond exactly as you require when you press the remote?

That's how people without empathy view other humans.

They don't care if you empathise, they just want whatever they want - and they want it now.

MN is filled with proof that they do 🤣

Aren't there different types of empathy? Cognitive, emotional and compassionate?

I'm not sure exactly of their differences, I think it sounds like there could be some overlap depending on personality. But somebody could be good at a certain kind of empathy, and not so good at others perhaps?

This is true. Imo ‘empathy’ is usually used to mean emotional empathy, but someone low or lacking in that type can have high cognitive empathy, the ability to read someone and understand them on an intellectual level, but not an emotional one.

‘Normal’ people experience an interplay of all three.