Do people who lack empathy expect empathy?

[Appleabananasandpears]

Definitely overthinking but there are quite a few people in my life who either stayed away from me when I was going through a hard time or who were just generally insensitive to the whole situation. Obviously people have other stuff going on in their lives but I do think default empathy levels differ from person to person and probably don’t change unless that person takes a step back at some point to self-reflect.
Anyway, I’m just wondering if people who aren’t naturally empathetic are less likely to expect empathy when they’re in a difficult situation? Are these the types to just pull their socks up and get on with it and not expect everyone to be busy trying to empathise with them, send them flowers etc etc. Sounds like a silly question just typing it out but I’m generally curious.

No, there is just giving a hug(if appropriate) and saying ‘I’m so sorry, pets break our hearts when they go’.

‘Advice surrounding the grieving process’ would not be that welcome, IME;
but I think this shows that empathy is something you are gifted with. Good manners and learning what is acceptable and appropriate can be achieved, but seems to have been dumped by society in favour of shrieking loudly and ‘centring yourself’.

Exactly. When my pet died I was very sad, people were sympathetic but one friend was empathetic as well as sympathetic and said very genuinely she could imagine she would feel exactly as upset as I was if it had happened to her. It validated my feelings. People being sympathetic (saying "Sorry to hear" was probably the most I got or expected really) was nice, but the empathetic response was extra soothing and I still remember it very clearly now as it made me feel that person wasn't just saying "there, there" in a perfunctory kind of way.

One of my parents (most likely) has a narcissistic personality disorder and it encapsulates many things but one of them being - having zero empathy for those closest in your life but being insanely sensitive and expecting constant support and empathy from others (and if they don't get it, they get accusatory)

I have noticed there's a definite trend in people who aren't empathetic, are just being honest or just saying - only liking it when it's them doing the dishing out.

They are often extremely offended and professional victims if it's treated as a 2 way street.

Then it sounds like empathy relies on one sharing the same emotional approach or mentality towards a particular something something as the individual they’re empathising with, rather than it being a set characteristic? I can’t, for example, know what it feels like to be devastated over a pet’s death, because I never have been. I’ve had pets and been sad for a day or so when they died, but I couldn’t in good faith tell a friend who’s been grieving for weeks or months over a dead pet that I understood or knew I’d feel the same way, because that isn’t true.

I can do sympathy, because it just relies on me knowing that somebody I care about is sad and me feeling sad that they are sad.

Is that a lack of imagination, @ComtesseDeSpair ?

I have never had a critically ill child, or my husband have a degenerative life limiting condition. I empathise with the friends who do because I can see the impact it has and imagine the fear, anger and despair they likely feel.

I think being interested in the lives of others is a crucial first step, of course.

Possibly. Though I presume somebody who hasn’t lost a child or a spouse themselves would not tell somebody who had that they felt their pain and knew exactly how they were feeling? As that would be the very opposite of empathetic.

Do people who believe themselves to be very empathetic and express it assume others always appreciate this, out of curiosity? Because often when people tell me they understand how I feel in a particular situation etc I generally just think “you have no way of possibly knowing whether this is true” and it can come across as very false. Whereas “I’m so sorry this has happened, is there anything you’d like me to help with?” i.e. sympathy doesn’t make me feel that way and offers something practical.

Are these the types to just pull their socks up and get on with it and not expect everyone to be busy trying to empathise with them, send them flowers etc etc.

This sounds very much like my dad, and I think in his case it works the other way around - he doesn’t require any empathy and that makes it difficult for him to be empathetic, if that makes any sense? For example, when his mum died he went straight from the hospital to work, didn’t want any time off or sympathy, got on with organising the funeral etc. So when other people want time off work for bereavement he doesn’t get it and thinks they’re being a bit pathetic. Or he doesn’t understand why someone would be upset by him saying “You shouldn’t be eating that, think of the calories!”, because if someone said it to him he’d say “I know I’m a fat fuck, but I just can’t resist a doughnut.”

I’m nearly 40 and I’m just about coming to a place of accepting that’s who he is and I can like it or lump it (one of his favourite phrases)

I don't really associate the phrase 'I know how you feel' with empathy. I associate it with people desperate to talk about a similar situation they have been in.

DH does something similar. When I say my feet hurt he tells me his do too.

They don't. He's admitted this recently. He says it because he's joining in, being like me, sharing in my experience. I'd like him to stop vicariously sharing my pain and carry the bags, though!

He lacks empathy. He's very rational, to the point of excluding emotions from any calculations.

I’m beginning to think the same way i.e empathy is easier if your own inner emotional workings are similar to the person going through the experience. If not, empathy may be harder to attain. If you’re generally not so attuned to your own emotions, responding appropriately to people who are is probably quite difficult.

For those who expect people to care about them but give nothing back, I can think of three reasons: too busy/struggling with own issues, depression, selfishness/narcissism.

In my mother's case, yes. 100%.

That’s a bit strange!

I am very much in this camp. If I was in hospital unexpectedly, for example, I would value someone saying "Right, what do you need?" and them bringing me my kindle, my phone charger, and making sure my pet rats had food and water. What I wouldn't want is them coming to visit me or saying "Ooh you must feel a bit scared" (WHY WOULD YOU SAY THIS?!)

My emotions were invalidated repeatedly as a child and that has resulted in me being very uncomfortable with expressing (or even recognising) most of my own emotions, let alone other people's. I find being empathetic and a supportive listener extremely difficult. I do try - but I'm much, much more comfortable (and skilled) at taking care of practicalities.

Should add to this there’s always scope to learn, sadly most of the learning may happen only when you yourself go through something.

You’re coming across – and I can only assume you intend to, as you’ve stated you’re empathetic and very good at understanding how others will feel in particular situations – as rather supercilious here. The world isn’t distinguished between people who think as you do and who are therefore good people who everyone else can learn something from, and people who don’t think like you and therefore, unless they commit to learning from you, are incapable of responding appropriately, give nothing back or are probably selfish narcissists. Assuming that “responding appropriately” is objective and limited to the way you respond or would like others to respond to you is a false premise.

Realising that other people don't always think or want the same things as you/your family or friends do is something we all have to learn growing up, isn't it?

If a child fell over and hurt itself, my mother would put a plaster on the cut. She would not cuddle the child and say "there, there" as she thought that encouraged them to make more of a fuss. Sometimes she'd tell them not to cry so long as she thought they were just attention-seeking. This is because my mother was basically neglected as a child. So her method is an improvement on what she grew up with. As I got older I realised that when a child falls over and you don't rush over and make a fuss of them, you can look a bit of a dick, so I developed my own method for dealing with the situation.

I'd still feel much happier offering practical help (especially rat-sitting services!), though, and am happier receiving that kind of help, too.

It makes perfect sense that self absorbed people don't do empathy!

You have a problem: nothing to do with them, that's your stuff
They have a problem: they are obvs the centre of the world and so you should drop everything and run to their side

It all makes sense, although it does seem illogical to anyone raised with basic social skills 😂

I did say I was overthinking @ComtesseDeSpair to be honest i think I can improve my empathy a lot, especially when it comes to people who are more logical/less emotional. From the responses, it’s evident that not everyone wants an emotional response. This was the whole point of my question really. The responses on here have been really lovely, I was expecting to get shot down much sooner.

Well yes. My BIL & MIL were both like this. Neither of them could stand attention on anyone else and just wanted people to be sorry for them all the time.
im never sure if it’s narcissism or just being self absorbed or just a victim mentality.

when his mum died he went straight from the hospital to work, didn’t want any time off or sympathy, got on with organising the funeral etc.
This is hard to deal with too, isn't it? My ex was like this - straight back to work, not seeking any sympathy - so I thought he was trying to deal with it in his own way and wanted me to keep out of it. After we broke up, though, I wondered if I should have ignored the signals he was sending out and fussed over him more. With my current bf it was easier as he cried on my shoulder. I didn't have to fuss over him - he doesn't like being fussed over - but I felt better being able to show at least some sympathy.

Expect it? They demand it. They are always the victim. Remember?

People with little or no empathy aren’t one dimensional pantomime villains, and they won’t all have the same expectations any more than they will behave the same.

Some will, some won’t. I prefer the resilient/tough it out approach, over empathy. The latter often comes over as insincere - people are saying what they think they are required to by polite society, in order to tick the ‘good person’ box and to feel like they’ve done something. It may be meant well, but it’s not something I personally find helpful.

I don't read applea's post that way, Comte. I read it as we pick up skills with age. We understand things better when we've had more experience.

Obviously some people are naturally good at stuff and others have to try hard- and some don't even notice they have a skill gap.

people are saying what they think they are required to by polite society
Yes, but OTOH most people pay some attention to what others think, e.g. you wouldn't say "I don't care about your dead dog" even if it was factually accurate. So we are all doing this to some extent I think - we just have different ideas of how much we want to "fit in", who we want to fit in with or why we want to fit in.

I have a friend I've known several decades. She loves to boast how she is "an empath" etc, but in reality she's very narcissistic bless her and has no idea about other people's feelings. She can't empathise, and everything is about her, her feelings, what she needs etc.