Do people who lack empathy expect empathy?

[Appleabananasandpears]

Definitely overthinking but there are quite a few people in my life who either stayed away from me when I was going through a hard time or who were just generally insensitive to the whole situation. Obviously people have other stuff going on in their lives but I do think default empathy levels differ from person to person and probably don’t change unless that person takes a step back at some point to self-reflect.
Anyway, I’m just wondering if people who aren’t naturally empathetic are less likely to expect empathy when they’re in a difficult situation? Are these the types to just pull their socks up and get on with it and not expect everyone to be busy trying to empathise with them, send them flowers etc etc. Sounds like a silly question just typing it out but I’m generally curious.

Hello OP, I am no expert and I accept that there are many different people in the world, but I lived with a person with narcissistic traits and can tell you that he was absolutely unable to feel empathy for others, but he most definitely expected it. It was so unnerving to watch how disinterested he was for other people, their problems, needs and how difficult it was for him to offer help and god forbid sacrifice for them, but as soon as he needed something he expected everyone, even complete strangers, to jump in. It drove me crazy!!!

I agree with PP, often the people that are least empathetic expect the most support, probably because they lack emotional intelligence and therefore fail to realise 1) what other people might need and 2) when they are being completely self-centred in expecting ridiculous levels of support from others. People with higher empathy levels often hesitate to draw on others, even if they would bend over backwards for those people to help them, because they are thinking about how their situation would impact the people they would like to lean on.

There's a distinct type who plaster the soundbite #BeKind all over their social media. Rather than, you know, being as good as their word, quietly getting on and doing their good deed for the day.

Why? In my observation, what this means (aside from 'be quiet') is 'be kind to ME'.

It has nothing do do with the soundbiter's intentions of being kind to others.

IME, those who like to issue this directive are very much all about me.

I know one person who is completely lacking in empathy.
Just cannot see, understand or accept other people's feelings or problems, while at the same time sucking those around them dry for support in even the tiniest decision, ailment or perceived slight.
I've backed off because I find it both exhausting to deal with and incredibly selfish on their part.

I probably fitted your description in the past, before I had ever really had a tough time. Staying away was because I had absolutely no idea what would be the right thing to do it say and didn't feel I had much to offer.
I guess when relatively normal crap things happened in my life (like breakups in early 20s) I didn't have any expectations that people would step up, and was fairly self sufficient but very grateful to those who did.
Now that I've been through a truly terrible, terrible experience I feel I can support others pretty well and make an effort to be there for friends. I don't hold it against anyone who didn't know how to support me at the time, but will always feel very close to those who did.

I think so. I lack empathy and expect people to be empathetic to me. I know it sounds selfish and probably is but empathy isn't really a choice. Most have it, some don't. The way I see it is I WOULD give you empathy if I had any.

Absolutely not. Someone I know regularly complains that I have no empathy. What they appear to mean is that I don't give them everything they want and prioritise them over myself.

They have no empathy, it's all about them and what they need. It's always because they are the victim and no one has enough empathy for them.

beautifully put @ThisOneNow

I do think some of it’s manners and upbringing rather than actually being kinder. There are lovely kids I work with who have been told to ask other people questions rather than butt in with their own story or have had good role models to shw how to address difficult subjects.
Lots of people are just a bit rude because they haven’t been taught better.

I'm quite a private person so would feel I was intruding if I started getting what to me would feel overinvolved in someone else's life. I also hate being fussed over so tend not to fuss over other people in a "do as you would be done by" sort of way.
If a friend wanted my company and asked me to go round for a coffee, go out for a walk I would and I wouldn't stay away from a friend going through a hard patch, but I tend to avoid the sort of people who go from one melodrama to another and are never content.

This is interesting, there absolutely needs to be a balance between showing you care and being intrusive. I suppose this could be done in a number of ways for example by sending a gift rather than calling or visiting, or sending short texts and avoiding sensitive questions.

Essentially I think it’s important to take note of the indicators the person is giving off and to follow their lead/respond accordingly, I think that’s what effective empathy looks like.

Many people aren’t good at it and many people don’t seem to give much of a shit about it but it seems from what posters are saying that these people would still expect it if they were in a tough situation.

On the melodrama point, agree that empathising with people who are essentially long-term self destructive is very challenging, may not result in anything positive and may come at the expense of your own mental health.

I’m not particularly empathetic and I don’t particularly find it useful when others show it towards me. I’m a do-er and a problem solver. Somebody saying they understand how I feel or know how difficult something must be doesn’t do anything to resolve an issue or fix a problem. I find it much easier to suggest solutions than to be a shoulder to cry on, and vice versa from others towards me.

thanks @ComtesseDeSpair what if there are no solutions though? Not everything can be fixed.

Sometimes people feel awkward about coming across as interfering or too nosy rather than "lacking empathy" which can be why they keep at arms length?
Unless it's someone very close to me I wouldn't expect too much "deep and meaningful empathy" from anyone.

I guess as way of example there's no solution to your beloved dog dying, but there is always advice surrounding the grieving process, that sort of thing?

I have a friend who shows very little empathy. That's OK, I know what she is like and I value her friendship for many other reasons (and I have other friends I would call upon if empathy is what I'm in need of).

I find that she doesn't seek or value empathy. She once said "I don't want you to do any of that nice stuff, or be reasonable - I just want to have a complete moan for 5 minutes"

She is direct, but she also responds well to directness from me. So one time when she said that the only people who supported her during X (health) event were her friends from a particular group, I stopped her right there and explained how that made me feel, because I had been her biggest and most consistent support. She apologised and took it on board.

Narcissists aside, I something think that people just have different communication styles. My friend prefers direct communcation, I'd prefer inference.

I'm wading in because I find myself torn, I am believe I am very good at masking empathy because I think I do have good communication skills an I don't like to think of other people suffering. Yet weirdly when it's my friends and work colleagues I feel I can say the right thing as they have 'closer' people in their lives and Im an extra, like when your invited to a wedding but not I'm the main photos. I can thrive in this position.

But with my mother (who I love very much) I feel myself shutting down and it's getting worse, I dread her telling me her problems because I feel burdened by them as she doesn't have a lot of people in her life. She might just want me to listen or maybe it's a role reversal thing but I fake saying the right thing while mentally counting down to changing the subject.

My father died 12 years ago suddenly at the age of 67 when I was 24 and my mother 52.

So that's maybe got a lot to do with it.

I feel I am empathetic to my daughter but I'm a single mum and am everything to her while also trying to make sure she can be a self reliant person one day

People who lack empathy may struggle to recognise or understand the emotional experiences of others, perhaps due to a lack of emotional intelligence which can make it challenging for them to provide empathy themselves. Others develop and cultivate a more self-centred view as they cast themselves as a perpetual victim. This second category of people who lack empathy tends to still expect others to show empathy towards them.

I don’t have much empathy for what I consider as non-serious things. Like work issues or life stuff not going the way you hoped, I just think yeah shit happens to everyone, get on with it! When I see someone as lacking in resilience it annoys me and makes me distance myself from them. I wouldn’t expect a fuss from anyone if that stuff happened to me either. In fact, when I was made redundant and a few people were like “omg you’re so brave for picking yourself up and finding work straight away, I’m in awe” it irritated me because I thought, well what else did you expect me to do? Lie on the sofa wailing til a new job fell into my lap?

that said, if serious things happen (I’m talking like death level stuff) I think I am helpful and empathetic in a practical way. It would never occur to me to send gifts or flowers (and I wouldn’t expect that from anyone) but if someone’s house burnt down I’d have them stay on my sofa. If their pet died I’d check in and offer to go and see them. I’d definitely keep in touch and ask how they were feeling, I wouldn’t be fawning and hugging and gushing though and it would make me cringe myself inside out if someone was like that with me, I’m not huggy and touchy unless it’s with my partner and I’m TERRIBLE with people crying

I feel I don't expect other people's help or empathy. I am very self reliant and actually struggle to let people in.
If people want to be there for me I have to try really hard not to shut them out and accept that they want to do it and letting them be there for me is part of friendship but I have to fight the urge to cope with everything alone

For me the difference was highlighted most strongly when a person I felt deeply for expressed their opinion that anyone who hadn’t lost parents in childhood had no right to any sympathy whatsoever

If you have not suffered ‘exactly the same’ it doesn’t make you incapable of empathy necessarily, plenty of people can, or at least try to, understand what others have suffered

Actively wishing hurt (or worse causing it) in order to inflict the same trauma you have - that’s fucking cold

and like PP, those I’ve experienced lacking in empathy, demand the most empathy/special treatment as a ‘right’ whilst denying others the same and framing the others need for understanding as an inconvenient or unwarranted demand

I’m still working on my childhood trauma appeasing behaviour and now refuse to give empathy where none is evident to me or others

I know trauma can interrupt empathy in a survival situation but those who show no empathy on a consistent basis? Fuck ‘em

The world is full of those deserving of empathy, even those who don’t show it, my life however is short

If you haven’t, and don’t, give empathy, kindness, tolerance, forgiveness and love and care - don’t expect any of the above from me

I thank MN for helping me escape an abusive relationship and also for instilling in me more of a ‘take no shit’ ideology that has freed me from the servitude of empathy for those unwilling to show, foster, or learn empathy for others

Empathy is often wasted on the undeserving, and sadly lacking for the completely disenfranchised and most deserving

That's a complete cop out.

Fine, you may not feel empathy naturally or whatever but you've learnt now over the years what empathic people do in certain situations. You just copy these learnt behaviours at a basic level to show you aren't a completely selfish twat.

Empathy is often wasted on the undeserving, and sadly lacking for the completely disenfranchised and most deserving

Yes, I've found this to be the case in life too.

Empathy that doesn't attempt to see what the need is before attempting to respond is pretty pointless, surely?

The people gushing over unwilling recipients aren't being empathic, rather expressing their own need to be involved in someone else's drama.

Empathy quietly fills gaps, surely? A message reminding someone they aren't alone, a dinner delivered if someone isn't eating well. Not a loud announcement of 'right, you're coming to us for Sunday lunch every week!' And a photo on FB

I find the expectation of gifts when going through a bad patch an odd one unless someone has died. For me gifts are a usually a celebratory thing. Friends get cards and gifts on birthdays and Christmas not because they are going through a bad patch. I wouldn't expect presents/ flowers if my husband left me and I wouldn't send someone else in that situation a present.