What do you do when your ex insists on talking to children about money issues?

[ZedChair]

Dc live with me, and see ex approx once a month, weekends if during term time or up to a week if during a longer holiday - all his choice.

He doesn't work, lives in benefits. I receive all the child benefit etc for the children because they're here most of the time and I pay for all clothes, shoes, devices, out of school classes, trips, etc. He just has to buy them food and pay for any activities he chooses to do with them when they're with him.

He spent quite a long time not seeing them at all, and I claimed cms during that time, which was £30 pcm total. When he started seeing them again (which the children wanted so I wanted to support) he said he couldn't afford to if he was paying the cms so I said he could stop that.

Recently he has started to ask me, every time he has them, to give him money to pay for their stuff while they're there, which I have refused. Honestly I can't afford to - I have debt, he chooses to do paid for activities every day, which I cannot afford to do, and the children cost me more and more as they get older.

They come back from his saying that I get 'all the money from the government' and he gets 'nothing' and it's not fair - I should give him some.

I don't want to bring them into something which is totally inappropriate for them to be aware of, and I don't know what to say when they come back from Easter contact when they will inevitably have had this shit dropped into their ears throughout, because he has been particularly complaining to me, about my refusal to pay him to have them this time.

They are 9,11,15.

No - he hasn't worked for 15 years. I want to work, but I just can't at the moment. All the professionals involved with dc say that I can't, but I do feel hideous about it.

Yes - he gets money from government and they never seem to question why he doesn't work. Obv I don't want them to and don't bring it up, but it does seem very unfair that he is constantly going on at them that I get all my money from the government. He is the only reason they know this at all.

It's ok to say that the money for the government pays part of the cost of your buss pass/school shoes /other important item for them.

It's also ok to point out that you're not rolling in money either but choose not to moan about it because you don't want to be a downer.

Dc do have positive influences in their lives work wise in wider family, and I do emphasise how family members they are close to work very hard. I mean - the see that their cousins for eg have more money than we do, and I'm totally open that this is because my sis and her husband both work really hard.

Yep. He’s actually right about the CB. Regardless of if he has them, you get it all.

that may be right, and it’s for essentials for them, but it can feel unfair if a dad has his kids and pays for their food etc out of his (frankly small) benefits, while their mum gets all the CB

I would, without blame, share your side of the situation and information. It is possible without saying 'he's manipulating you/me' demonstrate that here are the facts.

I'd also be tempted to get the book 'huge bag of worries' from the library and show them the page and picture where problems belonging to other people should be sent back to those people to deal with, and not carried by a child. It won't matter that the book is aimed at much younger kids; the picture and information is powerful whatever your age if you're being dumped on by an adult.

Give you don’t work
Given the ages of your children
Given they are with you 95% of the time

I am surprised that they think you shouldn’t get all the government support available.

And if you don’t speak to your children about why you don’t work ie to support them during this tough time, then they will just likely think that you can’t be arsed!

You re worried about telling your children the truth, but believe me, they will already be aware of their father's issues with substance abuse, although they might not be able to explain what it is.
It will be better for them if you are honest with them.
And as for him not working for 15 years because he is bi-polar, well, I think you are buying into his bullshit. He could get medication, but he is not only choosing not to, and choosing not to work ( although you say you suspect he does some cash in hand) he has also chosen to drag his children into his poor woe-is-me world view.
Given what they know already, I think you have to be honest with them. Show them the bills, let them know how the benefits you get are calculated, and what you are meant to use them for. Explain that Dad is asking you to give him money intended for their upkeep to him to spend on taking them out , when you can't afford to do that. Tell them clearly that Dad is misguided if he thinks that you have any spare cash. Tell them if you has spare money you would be taking them out yourself.
Is it worth looking for work you can do from home yourself?

I actually wouldn’t shy away from the fact that you don’t work now because you’re a full time carer for your older child. Say it with love. There’s no guilt - you’re the mum, it’s what you signed up for and there’s nothing more important to you than being there for your DC. And, in a functioning society, we support people who can’t work because they’re caring for others, etc etc.

And you’re with them almost all the time, so you’re entitled to all the money.

They can see how hard it is for both you and your DH not earning. If you’re worried that will make them feel hopeless for their future (ie: “my parents don’t work so I won’t be able to either”), tell them they have the power to change their future. What are they excited about when they become adults? Is there anything they love to do? Share that when you feel able, you would like to go back and do X again.

Ok - I have the huge bag of worries book so I will look it out and use it as you suggest.

Tbh - I'm not really buying into his bs about not working. I didn't want to come across as unsympathetic or hypocritical, but having lived with him, I do actually believe he could work if he wanted to albeit self employed - he has construction skills and could use them. I have personally witness him lying to an esa interviewer about what he could and couldn't do, and have no reason to believe he has not continued to do so. I know people will judge me for this, but he was abusing me at the time and I was brainwashed and scared.
But I'm not going to tell the dc about this because that would be wrong.

I think I will have to find a way of broaching why I currently can't work without it feeling like blame on eldest. They do know that I used to, and that I expect to again whenever I am able to.

Looking into something I could do from home is a good idea.

Good point - that there is value in caring work done at home and it's nothing to be ashamed of. I need to try to amplify this for myself. But it's hard because wider society doesn't really agree.

I think I would reinstate the CMS claim and let the children have some of it as spending money when they’re with him.
it sounds like it would be good for you to work again - there may be more opportunities for working from home now.

If your 15 year old and other kids are at school weekdays I don't get why you can't work part time. You sitting home all day won't make his autism better. Better to set a good example to kids that if you work you earn money and can buy things.

He isn't at school all day, he is reliably there when he's scheduled to be, and he's not safe to be left alone. The professionals involved, who know our whole situation, have told me they don't think I can work and care for him in the current circs. Unfortunately. His autism is never going to 'get better' but hopefully his coping skills will.

Isn't reliably there - not is

When you talk to your kids, it might be worth saying how much Child Benefit is. They might assume that you're receiving 100s when it's an amount that pays for say this mmm me bus to school.

I’d agree that CB is inherently unfair even if you are working - for example my DH has 50/50 shared care but his ex still gets 100% of the child benefit. He’s never disputed it or asked for half because it doesn’t seem worth the fight.

Obviously if one parent does the lions share then it should go to them but when costs are very much 50/50 there does seem to be an inherent bias towards the woman.

I’ve known families through my work where Dad has the majority custody and Mum is still claiming the benefits and the Dad has had to dispute with the job centre etc. But that’s another story I suppose.

OP, you do work actually, because you are a carer for your disabled son. That is valid, and it isn't just a lifestyle choice. Your son needs the care.

I think you need to explain to your kids that their dad does get money from the government to cover his own costs, and that actually, the government expects him to give some of that money to you as a contribution towards the costs of looking after the children, because they live with you and you cover nearly all of their expenses. Legally, you still have the right to claim that money from him, but you have chosen not to, because you want him to have some spare money to treat them to stuff when they visit him. So effectively, you are giving him money by not claiming what you are legally entitled to claim from him. The extra money that you get from the government as the resident parent is to help you pay for their basic needs, including food, clothes, accommodation, heating etc. Normally, both parents would be expected to share these costs between them, but as he isn't currently contributing his share, you don't owe him anything!

OP you know how difficult it is to get DLA and carers pittance allowance out of the government, you should know that you deserve it. There is a massive stigma attached to being on any kind of benefits and sadly a few headline grabbing cases tar everyone with the same brush. You have nothing to be ashamed of. Your son needs you at home so that is where you are. Don't apologise for that.

I am sure you can think of a way of phrasing things that mean your son doesn't see himself as a burden, because he isn't a burden, you are his Mother and you love him. I would start by telling your children the amount of child benefit you get for them and get them to work out how much a lunch at school costs and how much that is per week. Then a weekly supermarket shop and the cost of school uniform and shoes. These are all things they can relate to.

It is shitty that your ex is involving them like this but even CMS says he has some money he can pay toward his children. He can use that money to pay for things for them.

I’m assuming you home school your eldest? Hence not working. If he has been deemed unfit for work, then you should accept that. It’s really not up to you to decide, just as its not up to him to decide if you should work or not.

That being said, I would send the children with food at a cost equivalent to a day’s CB when they visit him. After all, you don't need to feed them that day do you?

I would also sit down with the children and show them how much money you have coming in and how much their DF has. Then look at the outgoings for both of you. This is good parenting all round anyway - at their age they should be taught financial management!

effectively, you are giving him money by not claiming what you are legally entitled to claim from him

Good point - tell them you are letting him keep the £30 so he can spend it on them.

Tell him this. That you are helping him by not claiming the money you could claim from him as his contribution so he has that money when they are there. Then also explain the money you get from the govt is to pay for the house and all essentials for you and them as they live with you most of the time. At the moment you are doing a very important job of caring for the children and when they are grown up you plan to go back to work.

@ZedChair

This dc has really complex needs (they didn't just suddenly appear - they'd built up and worsened over the years until the crisis). He had since had several more breakdowns, ended up in hospital having attempted suicide, cannot function in the way an ordinary 15yo can and gets DLA, and I get carers. But - I have never told him that he is the reason I can't work

you ARE working! It's just thankless, unpaid caring! With a bit of a stigma attached. But fuck them, anyone judging can feel free to look after DS while you do better paid, better thought of work!

As for explaining it to them. That's a bit more tricky, but ' I have 3 children who still need me to at home at the moment, so it's not an option.?!

I don't think you need to do other oaid work, but if it would make YOU feel better then crack on with looking forWFH opportunities, but frankly I think it would be much better for you to just use that time to stay on top of the house and rest, see other adults and breathe!! You're working hard enough!

only look for paid work if YOU want to do it, not because some judgemental tests make you feel like you should and really it's not going to make much difference to the kids seeing you working unkess you're trying to work when they're at home & they probably get more out if. Ring available when they're home than seeing you working.

Thanks for all helpful advice.

If he has been deemed unfit for work, then you should accept that. It’s really not up to you to decide, just as its not up to him to decide if you should work or not. I'm not deciding anything. That was my personal private opinion that I do not share anywhere else and only did so in response to another comment suggesting I was buying into his bs. It's irrelevant really and I wish I had t shared it. I don't have any influence over him and I don't want to, and I'd never say anything to the dc about his not working, and never have.

another possible thing to point out is that if he really wanted to help the children’s financial situation, even though he can’t work, he could enable you to work.

if he pulled his weight with dc more and was around to help your eldest with school, supervise etc, you could work at least part time.

but as it is there isn’t enough money to go round while you have to be at home for the children.