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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Family dishonesty (DB and SIL)

58 replies

Eleano · 30/03/2023 13:55

Dear Mumsnet,

Me and my DH had the most amazing wedding. Everything went smoothly except for one thing.

My wedding dress had been promised to me as a gift to keep by my brother's DP and her DM who own a bridal boutique.

This gift which was announced at the time of our engagement over a year and a half ago, was above and beyond my expectations and I was very grateful for it. It was the reason that I was willing to travel to another country where the boutique is based for the fittings and collection. In fact, I travelled for the final fitting and collection just one week before my wedding which was quite stressful.

But all of that didn't matter because I was still really grateful that it was a gift and was willing to put in the extra effort.

On the day of the collection however, when the dress had just been packed into my suitcase, they mentioned in passing that my brother's GF would be taking the dress back with her after the wedding, as though that had been the agreement all along. I didn't react immediately because I was too shocked and because I wanted to doublecheck correspondence and see that they had indeed gifted it to me.

Sure enough when I checked my phone later I found the message where my brother’s GF had announced that her and her DM had decided to gift me a wedding dress to keep because they consider me to be family. I have a screenshot of that. At this point I still didn’t say anything to not create drama just before the wedding.

It’s also worth mentioning that the DM of my brother’s GF (owner of the boutique and designer of the dresses) had imposed specific demands on me regarding photography and social media promotion for the boutique and still wants me to keep that side of the deal.

Additionally, just before I left for the airport to return home the next day, my brother’s GF asked me if I would agree to post the dress back instead so that her luggage wouldn’t be increased and pay for the postage because her family wouldn’t be willing to. That is when I discretely said that I hadn’t budgeted for that cost because the dress had originally been gifted and she replied that she didn’t remember what had been agreed and in any case the dress was part of the new collection so couldn’t be gifted. Funnily enough, I remember clearly a few months before when I asked which collection the dress belonged to that they told me it was part of an old collection they couldn’t even remember. But that is irrelevant since even if it was true they should’ve told me at the time when I selected the dress over a year ago.

As soon as I parted from them I was able to cry the tears I had been holding back which were tears of sadness and anger since I realised that nobody - not even my brother or his GF had my back to tell me the dress had been ungifted and just be open and transparent with me instead of pretending they don’t remember or that it was part of the wrong collection.

The money I paid for the flights had exceeded the cost of hiring a wedding dress in my own country which would have been much easier for me to do. And the stress of travelling just one week before my wedding when I should’ve been at home doing so many other jobs can’t be measured.

It is now nearly one week after the wedding and I haven’t mentioned anything about it yet as I wanted the bubble of the wedding to pass and not taint it with this drama. However, my brother’s GF’s sister who works at the boutique is already questioning why I’m not tagging the brand on a few Instagram posts I reposted from my suppliers and has also today reminded me that they want me to improve their website.

Because of this pushiness and the fact that my brother himself reached out on her behalf to question why I wasn’t doing a better job of promoting the brand on my social media, I feel it is time to address the elephant in the room.

I am almost certain that they aren’t expecting me to say anything because they think I won’t want to rock the boat which is also why they did it in the first place.

My brother has been dishonest in the past too, having taken money from an account which was set up for a family project and using it for his own needs (he apologised after I pushed him to) and I’m pretty sure he’s been dishonest about many other things as well.

His values which are very different to mine make him think that it’s not a bad thing to lie and he seems to think that he gets away with it and nobody notices his dishonesty.

His GF is the same and together they feel they are a power couple - they are very domineering and competitive in group situations.

Me and my DH are down to earth people that don’t like conflict so we have never clashed with them but this seems like a step too far and I’m determined to at least get an honest explanation if I’m to continue having anything to do with them.

I have messaged my brother and asked him to call me to speak privately but he has said that he would rather I just text him because he’s busy. I know that he won’t call me even though I said that a text message wasn’t appropriate for this conversation.

Therefore, my plan is to text him about it and include the screenshot which proves that it had been gifted to me and end by saying that I expect an explanation at the very least especially if the boutique is expecting me to be sharing photographs from the wedding with them.

It is very disappointing because I did think that my relationship with my brother and his GF was improving since they were very excited about the wedding.

OP posts:
ChangedmynameagainforChristmas · 30/03/2023 18:00

This is all too childish and silly for words

Eleano · 30/03/2023 18:00

@Largeflaskoftea didn't mean to tag you in that one

OP posts:
veggiegestational · 30/03/2023 18:10

Do you have like a million followers or something?

YaWeeFurryBastard · 30/03/2023 18:17

Eleano · 30/03/2023 17:55

@YaWeeFurryBastard I was not attached to the dress but for all the reasons stated above (eg flying to another country) it would have been good if they kept their word. Also I have a screenshot of the message where they said "yours to keep".

I don’t understand why you’re so bothered then to be honest? Yes annoying about the flying thing but that wouldn’t be solved by getting to keep the dress!

Brefugee · 30/03/2023 18:28

i was a bit confused but it seems they have the dress? then I'd just text back that since they have gone back on their part of the deal (gifting you the dress) you're not of a mind to keep up your part (promoting their business)

They have the dress, you have the photos. No brainer for me - don't bother contacting them again unless you have to

BlackAmericanoNoSugar · 30/03/2023 18:36

I'd be wary of the meeting up for Easter thing, especially if your DB is keen enough to offer to pay for your flights. They probably have a plan to utilise you for something.

By all means keep in touch, he's your bother after all, but if it was me I would refuse any offers or gifts in the future as they seem like the type to expect a return with interest.

pncr · 30/03/2023 18:38

I would just send back whatever needs sent back and step back. It's all too much drama.

Dontbelieveaword · 30/03/2023 18:38

Brefugee · 30/03/2023 18:28

i was a bit confused but it seems they have the dress? then I'd just text back that since they have gone back on their part of the deal (gifting you the dress) you're not of a mind to keep up your part (promoting their business)

They have the dress, you have the photos. No brainer for me - don't bother contacting them again unless you have to

But she wants to spend Easter with them...in her own house and at her own expense, of course.

jemimapuddlepluck · 30/03/2023 18:43

Stay away from these people. They will ruin any special occasion you have from now on. They know you will back down whatever they throw at you. No more, you don't deserve it.

Frozendaquiri · 30/03/2023 18:45

If they took the dress back then they broke the deal and I wouldn't tag or promote their business in any way.

TheShellBeach · 30/03/2023 18:50

Since you no longer have the dress what is the point of this thread?

Thinkbiglittleone · 30/03/2023 18:55

Don't tag the boutique, explain they broke the agreement.
Message your brother simply explaining that.

MyriadOfTravels · 30/03/2023 19:28

Eleano · 30/03/2023 14:42

P.S: I don't have the dress as she took it with her when she flew back.

So they have the dress.
They want you to be besties
Whilst still pressuring you to post photos etc…
And they are trying to bring you back to the fold by ‘inviting you’ at Easter.

What is your aim when speaking to your dbrother?

  • tell him how wrong he was and hoping for …. An apology? You realise it will half hearted and meaningless fir him (see the fact he has a history there)
  • cut contact or go low contact in te grounds that their behaviour was crap
  • Something else?
Whatever you tell him will depend on your aim and how much wave you are happy to make. But I’d be refusing to sort it out by text. And I would be refusing to have some nice chitchat with either of them until you have spoken to them.
Eleano · 30/03/2023 19:56

@MyriadOfTravels I have two problems bearing in mind that I want to speak up and get an explanation/apology/both from either of them:

  1. In between now and then pleasantries have been exchanged which means I'll look weird suddenly being angry. The reason for the pleasantries was the need to keep the peace for the sake of the wedding but also a true desire from my part to see if I could bury my feelings and stay amicable

  2. I fear that if I retaliate by refusing to share photos and/or not speaking to them they will collectively (including my dad) gaslight me and show shock at how much I'm overreacting and how terribly I'm behaving. It will also mean that my brother who is half-heartedly keeping in touch will just disappear from my life altogether. As much as people here will say I'm pathetic for caring - maybe they don't have complicated families - he is my brother so a little bit of caring is expected.

I'm leaning towards messaging the GF directly and openly stating that I was disappointed. In the meantime, until I'm ready to do that, I have to decide whether to keep up the chit chat or ignore her messages. Again, the latter scenario will make me look really weird due to the inconsistency of my behaviour.

OP posts:
Dontbelieveaword · 30/03/2023 20:04

It will also mean that my brother who is half-heartedly keeping in touch will just disappear from my life altogether.

DB and his GF are keen to keep in touch and spend Easter together since they've been left feeling emotional about our newly extended family after the wedding

So, so confused

MyriadOfTravels · 30/03/2023 20:14

Just to say, it WILL not look weird.

Fir one, all the stuff about the photos and insisting about sending the dress back came after the wedding so no reason to worry about that.
Plus you wont be the first to keep the Ie ace until they can actually speak their mind. Please don’t worry about that.

re your dbrother, that’s why I asked what is your aim.
I get that instigating a situation where you’ll end up cutting ties doesn’t feel right.
I think you are also aware that they will both twist things so they dint look (too) bad.

Maybe your aim could be to simply tell them you’re not happy, this wasn’t the agreement and you won’t be posting photographs (IF that’s what you want) in return.
Then you will need to hold your boundaries. I’d include to not accept any other favour from either of them.
id also make sure you are very calm and business like when you speak to her. I’m going to guess that any show if emotion/I’m really sorry/or anger will be seen as a weakness by her and a way to ‘manipulate’ you again.
Cam abd to the point will get your message across and will also show they cannot push boundaries again.

fwiw seeing that your SIL mother was also involved, there might also be a story going in in the background there too. But it’s not your issue. The issue is the lies and taking you for a ride.

category12 · 30/03/2023 20:28

Next time they ask about you posting promotional stuff, just say "yes sure when I've got time" and then simply fail to follow through. Ad infinitum. Or do one small post if you feel you must (are you an influencer? why do they want this so much?!)

Be nice, don't fall out with them, just don't engage with them deeply and don't invest emotional energy in the relationship if you don't feel you can trust them, just skate along on the surface. Being vague and distant is better than getting into a big old family row where they'll likely drag in the rest of the family and make you look grabby, even if you're not.

Say no to shared holidays "oh we're newly weds, we just want romantic breaks alone together" and later find other excuses or just say no. You're not obliged to holiday with other people.

Dery · 30/03/2023 20:30

As usual, very wise advice from @category12 .

Eleano · 30/03/2023 21:23

Dontbelieveaword · 30/03/2023 20:04

It will also mean that my brother who is half-heartedly keeping in touch will just disappear from my life altogether.

DB and his GF are keen to keep in touch and spend Easter together since they've been left feeling emotional about our newly extended family after the wedding

So, so confused

People are complicated and contradict themselves - I'm confused too as all the above are true. He is generally half-hearted and is acting differently regarding Easter.

OP posts:
billy1966 · 30/03/2023 21:38

OP, your brother is dishonest, as is his girlfriend.

You know this.

They have form.

They are not nice people.

This is very hard to accept for you, I understand.

But the expression "when you lie down with dogs, you can't be surprised when you get up with fleas", comes to mind.

You are surprised by the dishonesty of people you know to be dishonest?

I think these will always be your interactions with them whilst you remain involved.

Catoo · 30/03/2023 22:00

Blimey OP. Congratulations on your wedding and just enjoy this time with DH! Go away together at Easter?

Grey rock DB and anyone else who sticks their oar in about the dress or Easter. Let them use the wedding photos to promote their bloody brand in their own time!
x

BlastedPimples · 01/04/2023 07:54

Your brother doesn't sounds like someone who is very interested in having a good relationship with his sister.

His gf is taking the piss.

It's time for you to evaluate whether you can be arsed with your brother.

It will be a constant let down for you. You can't trust him. He's a thief, you said?

I would just send the screenshot to him and his gf. Do not tag anything on your SM posts.

I would not seek a relationship with these people beyond cold civility.

I don't know how many more red flags you need.

Codlingmoths · 01/04/2023 08:01

Ha, I wouldn’t share photos, but I wouldn’t have let them take the dress! I’d just say I’m actually really out of pocket now compared to hiring a dress here and feeling manipulated and lied to. Best we not meet over Easter and please stop bothering me over photos unless you've mailed the dress you gave me back and it’s arrived.

then shut them out of your mind and enjoy time with your new husband. Let this be a really really useful lesson not to ever put yourself in a position to be walked over again. No sending your bil money in advance for anything, don’t agree to joint presents, don’t do anything you don’t want to do. Become the person who would have said sorry guys it was a gift, you were very clear about that and who ungifts a brides wedding dress days after she got married? You have to be taking the piss.

Coulditreallybe · 23/04/2023 19:15

Did you go @Eleano

Eleano · 23/04/2023 22:30

@Coulditreallybe no I didn't go but instead I decided to message my SIL directly since DB wasn't calling me back.

In my message to her I asked her what happened, why did they change their mind about me keeping the dress and why was I not informed until the last minute when I had already made the trip. I added that it wasn't so much the fact that I didn't keep the dress which upset me but mainly the lack of communication.

She replied and said that she is really disappointed and upset with me for having that attitude given that I got to wear the dress. She then said that I chose a dress which they couldn't give away.

I replied and expressed my surprise at her strong reaction and lack of understanding of my side since I was just sharing my feelings about a situation that could have been handled better. Additionally, I said I should have been told that the dress I chose was too expensive at the time so I could decide what I wanted to do then.

The argument ended with her saying she's so angry with me that she doesn't want to know anything more about the matter and I should speak directly with her parents.

What followed was that my DF called me because my DB had called him and tried to convince me to take back what I had said to my SIL; initially using a soft approach but eventually resorting to outright accusations that I had acted wrongly and selfishly and that I have created a rift in the family. Apparently my SIL had said she doesn't want to see me when I visit my hometown where they live and my DB will be visiting me without her from now on.

I stood my ground and said I wouldn't take anything back and don't regret any of my actions. I said that I have already compromised in that I'm willing to let it go now that I've spoken up and not demand an apology or explanation.

The latest is that due to a family emergency, my DB called me to manage the emergency situation. He said that we should park the issue of the dress as we're never going to resolve it and focus on the emergency matter at hand. I accepted that and avoided the topic.

My DB and DF are very similar; completely consumed in themselves and any concern I might raise gets trivialised and ignored. When they are at fault their form of defence is attack and they have done this many times.

I would like to cut contact with my DB and DF for some time in order to create better boundaries and make them believe me when I say I've had enough. But the ongoing family dramas that have followed my DM's passing 1.5 years ago have made that nearly impossible.

I expect the matter of the dress will be ignored by my DB and DF going forward with the covert understanding that I messed up and I owe my SIL an apology. I expect my SIL will decline any social events I attend going forward and cut me off completely.

OP posts: