Do you have any advice on forgiveness?

[Daisies975]

If anyone could recommend a good book on forgiveness, or has any other advice on how to forgive something very difficult, I would be really grateful.

@Daisies975 I didn’t mean he was saying that we should allow them to occupy our minds rent free, just the opposite. He describes hanging on to the resentment as the above concept. I didn’t explain it that well, sorry!

Whatever your situation OP, I hope you find freedom from it.

My dad cheated on my mum, they split up (not before she tried to make it work mind you) and then she was left in her early fifties rebuilding everything from scratch. He's the usual type - charming, stubborn, 'great father', careless of other people and yet apparently a loving person - and he left her in the absolute shit, with every single right to feel rage for the rest of your life.

She died in her late sixties, and when the time came she had more grace and heart and courage in her little finger than he's ever had or ever will have - she made sure he was around as she was dying because she knew that we (her children) would benefit from his support.

But she spent the time between them divorcing and her getting ill so so angry. And she was right to be, and she had every right to be. And I could never criticise her for feeling that anger. But I wish, for her, that she had been able (and I understand it's practically impossible when day in and out you're dealing with the consequences of someone else's awful actions) to leave it behind. I wish she'd been able to get free of the anger. She was a passionate, principled, adventurous, hugely intelligent, loving, supportive, understanding - oh, I can't even describe how amazing she was, there aren't enough words. And I really wish for her that she had got free, and could have felt more happiness in the day to day - more peace, more little smiles - not this heavy weight. Getting out of the actual situation isn't always enough - sometimes it's nowhere near enough. Sometimes even when you've done that, no matter who you are or what happened, you need to find out how to make it out of the aftermath, and many people don't.

I wish you success - not because I believe anyone 'deserves' forgiveness - but because I hope you find freedom.

On the other hand - if you're looking to forgive someone and stay with them while they fuck you over again - well, I pity you.

I have had trouble getting past being wronged and have come to agree with this. Focus on yourself and your future and eventually it fades into the distance.

I think for me it depends on the situation where forgiveness is needed. I'm thinking of two particular situations in my life, one where I felt I didn't get 'closure' in that the person never really accepted they did anything wrong so I had to work on letting that go first and accepting that I was never going to get an apology or acknowledgement and that they may continue to feel justified in their actions. Then I was able to work on the forgiveness through therapy and focusing more on the happiness in my life that I couldn't have had while they were around. That helped me. The other thing is more ongoing even though its historic, and I find that certain things, comments, events, milestones etc bring back the hurt. This taught me that forgiveness can be something you commit to doing over and over again, so when I stopped thinking about it as something linear 26th a start and an end, and realised its fluid and can be something that you continue forever then that helped me to actually move on and do that. It also helped me accept that I'll find certain times harder than others and I'm more prepared for that now and a bit more gracious towards myself when it happens. Time helps as well and not putting pressure on yourself to think or feel a certain way.

Are you still exposing yourself to the person who hurt you in any way?

Thank you so much for the replies - I really appreciate people taking the time.

That's a very good point about forgiveness being something you commit to doing over and over again. On a daily basis I'm living with the consequences of what happened in the past - not just the emotional effects but also the effects in terms of circumstances. It affects my daily life in lots of ways. That's part of what makes it hard to move past, so what you wrote is a helpful way to look at it.

The person is a close family member. I have limited my contact with them but the only way to avoid them completely would be to exclude myself from family events, get-togethers and Christmases, which I would not want to do. I'm part of a big family and most of the people in it are lovely.

(Btw, I realize it might be a bit frustrating for people reading this that I'm not going into what happened, but it would involve explaining details that would be very outing. It's an unusual set of circumstances. Also, I'm trying to focus on moving forward rather than dwelling on what happened. Thank you for respecting that!)

I haven't read the thread, but could you see it as a challenge, as in despite what they did I will not let it get inside me and my feelings are mine they don't have that control.

I def think you've got the right idea, grudges only really hurt us. (I accept this may be a much worse situation than a grudge, sorry if my wording isn't great.)

There are people I will never forgive.
It has no negative effect on me at all.
If you want to then you’ve had good advice her on how to but if not that’s ok too

Forgiveness is not possible at all unless the person who wronged you has tried to make amends, apologised etc.

The best you can hope for is acceptance and to find a way to move past it. You are doing many of the right things already and it is NOT a quick process.

I believe that TV and movies have a lot to answer for here. We see people getting closure, often after a specific event or a "lightbulb" moment and in reality, that's not how it works. It's a journey, often with twists and turns and some backtracking.

I also think that if this person is still in your life, even on the periphery, it's hard to reach that point of acceptance. In part, because perhaps part of your anger is that other people are letting him/her get away with it by not wanting to have nothing to do with them etc. Or perhaps because you find you are edge around them. I would think long and hard about under what conditions you are willing to be present with this person, and how you feel about other people being willing to be present, and it might be that you have to make some tough decisions as a result. If you decide you don't want to withdraw, think about how you can handle these moments. I have 2 people like this in my life although both are, I suspect, much less serious issues than you have referred to. I have a strict rule of polite greeting on arrival and complete and total ignoring of their presence beyond that. I am never rude, but if a conversation with them starts up, I politely excuse myself as soon as possible. If they join a group I am in, I politely leave. etc etc.

Oh, I will add that one person who I felt wronged me very very badly and who I still have to occasionally see - the reason is that she is close friends with a family member and so tends to attend larger events like big birthdays etc. I have come to accept that my relationship with this family member will never be as close as it was because I have to accept that for her not to see how awfully I was treated is a sign that she is also not the person I thought she was.

Realising that, actually helped a lot because I stopped waiting for the family member to be "better" or to be on my side. And to just take my relationship with her at face value - we chat, have a laugh, care about each other's DC etc, but we are no longer close. And that's totally fine. But it did take a while to get here. I spent a lot of time struggling to understand why she would want to be friends with such a horrible person.

Everyone says time helps but I find it more hard now than I did in the beginning guess it depends on the situation. Its been 3years for me and I carry more hurt/anger around now I just can't get my head around it specially when the other person is doing well and everyone loves them. Hope u find the peace you need tho xxx

"I believe that TV and movies have a lot to answer for here. We see people getting closure, often after a specific event or a "lightbulb" moment and in reality, that's not how it works. It's a journey, often with twists and turns and some backtracking."

Very good point.

I think something that is also a big thing for me is that I've been feeling that I ought to have grown as a person as a result of what's happened in ways I wouldn't have grown otherwise, so that I can think: "Well, it's ok it happened because it's led to all this personal development". I think that is putting a lot of pressure on myself, and maybe it's best to stop having that expectation.

Hi OP
It's been an interesting thread to read.

My sister ended up being a very angry person after a abusive relationship, she would turn to alcohol and then became the abuser (to her family).
I wish she had the courage back then to go to therapy and change her outlook on life, but instead I've had to cut ties with her because she became physically violent with another family member and verbally abusive to the rest of us.

Basically what I'm trying to say is- her anger started small (verbal) and overtime because physical. We all just kind of 'dealt' with the verbal stuff but it became too much.
I wish she'd dealt with it and the beginning and she wouldn't be where she is now- no family or friends, it's truly sad.

That is incredibly sad. I'm so sorry to hear that. I hear you - anger and hurt that are unaddressed can really damage a person.

OP, even God does not forgive sinners unless they first- genuinely-

1. repent their actions,
2. make amends, and
3. request forgiveness with a contrite heart. Do not feel any pressure to forgive if your particular “sinner” has not made any efforts. Releasing your anger and reaching a point of acceptance of the past does not have to include forgiveness unless you think it would benefit you.

I think something that is also a big thing for me is that I've been feeling that I ought to have grown as a person as a result of what's happened in ways I wouldn't have grown otherwise, so that I can think: "Well, it's ok it happened because it's led to all this personal development". I think that is putting a lot of pressure on myself, and maybe it's best to stop having that expectation.

Absolutely. This is another aspect of the "popular culture has a lot to answer for". This idea that you come away having learnt some amazing lesson about yourself. Its bollocks. If you're lucky, you come away knowing that you CAN survive really bad things, so I guess that IS something. But you're not going to be a better, changed person.

OP I feel so much better about myself when I am actively doing acts of kindness for others, it's so much easier to believe there is good in the world when I am making the world a better place. I have a public facing job where I get a lot of opportunities to practice kindness and help people, even when they're not nice I know I'm making a difference. Can you look for some volunteer opportunities that would make you feel really proud of the work you're doing? I agree with other posters, don't focus on "forgiveness" or the other person, focus on bringing joy and positivity into your own life. Wishing you sunnier days ahead.

I think time helps, and to be NC with the person who caused you pain (assuming that's possible)

I don't know what has happened OP, but you know that you don't have to forgive people for things whilst still being able to move on?

Someone did something to me once and, I've reached an acceptance with what they did. It's something that happened, and they did it because they were limited. I get it. I understand.

I can have a compassionate relationship with them and understand their limitations.

I won't ever forgive them for it though because the repercussions of their behaviour were profound.

I'm OK with it now. I'm OK with them. Because I'm ok with myself.

And that's fine. That's enough.

Hi op, I’m Catholic (sort of) so this should, in theory, be my specialist subject. 😄😄

But I think forgiveness is a very, very hard thing to do.

I don’t know if this is helpful or not in your circumstances, but we were always taught that forgiveness can come from a greater understanding of the other person and their motives.

I was very angry with my mother for years. I never thought I would be in a place where I could forgive her. But now, in my late fifties, I have a totally different perspective than I did back then. So it’s taken thirty years or so but now I have completely forgiven her and although I still think some things could have been done better, I know that she did the best she could with the knowledge she had at the time, and in fact I’ve come to appreciate much more some things that she did rather well.

I definitely think talking to someone helps, ditto journaling and also I think the idea of confining your anger and “grief” to an hour a day is good training too.

I use the word “grief” op because it sounds as though someone has robbed you of the future you were anticipating and had thought about and looked forward to. I am so sorry this happened to you. 💐

Also, I think an acceptance of life being unfair is something that feels easier to accept as you get older and it’s not so much what happens to you being the issue (within reason of course) but, as you have identified with such self awareness, how one emerges from that experience. It’s also worth bearing in mind that we are only human, forgiveness takes time and it’s bloody hard, especially when the expectations you had about life have been totally shattered, owing to the actions of someone else, over which you had no control.

Finally a pp said Forgiveness is not possible at all unless the person who wronged you has tried to make amends, apologised etc and I respectfully disagree with that. Of course a sincere apology helps, but I also think you can make a quite separate, independent decision to forgive someone, irrespective of their position on the matter, and irrespective of whether they accept culpability or ask for forgiveness or not. In the end, forgiveness, just like love or hate, is a verb, and it’s a choice.

But that choice can evolve and take place over time. It doesn’t have to happen in a day, or a year, or even three years, as long as you know what your ultimate objective and intention is with regard to it, and you keep revisiting it every so often. So I’d go a bit easy on yourself op and breathe and take it slowly. You are allowed to feel utterly bereft at what has happened. 💐

This. You don't have to forgive, and in fact trying to force yourself to when you are not ready is only going to make you feel worse.

There is nothing wrong with feeling anger, frustration, and sadness if that is how you feel.

Sometimes you have to lean into negative emotions and feel them before they will begin to dissipate.

Focus on yourself, distracting and forgetting, rather than forgiving. Forgiveness might come in time. One day you might wake up and realise that you aren't carrying such negative feelings towards that person anymore. But you might be a way off that point, or it might never happen, and that's fine, as long as you can be happy in your own life.

It is also worth asking yourself, what does it mean to you, to forgive this person?

What is forgiveness, anyway? Is it an action, a feeling, something else?

How will you feel when you forgive, compared to how you feel now?

And how will you know when you have forgiven?

No answers to these- but they're worth pondering when thinking about why it seems so important to go through this process of forgiveness.

I think as PP have said, we receive a lot of messages that forgiveness is the right thing to do and we will somehow feel better when we have done this thing. But there is not much about what forgiveness actually is, and what it means. They are things worth exploring.

Interesting thread! Personally I think that our culture is too focused on "forgiveness". It puts the burden on the victim/wronged party to move on, and sometimes this just isn't possible, especially when there has been no justice or accountability.

I prefer the idea of "letting go" and "moving on" rather than forgiveness. It comes from within yourself, in relationship to yourself.

Another vote for talking about this with a therapist/counsellor, it can really help.