Is this coercive control and would social services get involved if it was reported ?

MarsJupiterMoon · 2023-03-28T17:27:43+00:00

-monitoring location all the time -calls and texts constantly -not allowed to go out anymore to see certain friends -possibly controlling finances (from what I’ve overheard but not 100% sure) -dropped hours at work at insistence of partner Basically my best friend from uni is possibly in an abusive marriage ? I’m not sure but I’m worried about all of the above. We used to text a lot and meet up loads and it’s all stopped. Texts I send are replied to with one word response or not at all. Before this he had confided in me about the issues within his marriage (never physical violence) but just extremely controlling behaviour from his wife. I’ve met her many times she seems nice enough on the surface, quiet, like she’s observing everyone if that makes sense. I feel like he needs help but they have 2 young children - if this was reported would there be issues with social services as I don’t want to cause harm to him or his children

Aliceinunderland · 28/03/2023 18:32

If you reported it to the police then they would likely report it to SS as they have a duty to report it if children are involved.
Have you considered that it might pose a risk to your friend if you report it? Especially if his wife finds out and thinks he is telling people. Could you give him information for domestic abuse services for men in his area instead?

Original poster

MarsJupiterMoon · 28/03/2023 18:36

Aliceinunderland · 28/03/2023 18:32

If you reported it to the police then they would likely report it to SS as they have a duty to report it if children are involved.
Have you considered that it might pose a risk to your friend if you report it? Especially if his wife finds out and thinks he is telling people. Could you give him information for domestic abuse services for men in his area instead?

This was something else I was worried about

He’s told me in the past she had an extremely abusive childhood and is just scared of being abandoned but that she really a good person and he loves her so puts up with things as he says he understands why she’s doing them. I don’t know what to

OP posts:

LemonTT · 28/03/2023 18:37

I think you have observed some changes in his behaviour towards you. He is not spending time with you and is reducing contact. When with you his wife is in contact a lot.

He could be subject to coercive control. But she could just not like his relationship with you and has asked him to cool it off. Maybe because she is unreasonably jealous and controlling. Maybe because she is rightly seeing something more than a platonic relationship between you both.

Original poster

MarsJupiterMoon · 28/03/2023 18:37

I don’t even know if would meet the threshold for domestic violence ?

OP posts:

Hiddenvoice · 28/03/2023 18:38

My friend has a relationship like this. He has now cut all contact with me and my dh (blocked us on everything) as we spoke to him about it. He was going through the exact same thing. He came over to our house one day to pick something up and she sent a ridiculous amount of messages as she had checked his location and had not ‘approved’ this visit. He also had to stop any contact with female friends. I was previously friends with her but it very much felt like she wanted to keep me close to keep an eye on me.

When we spoke to him about everything we noticed,
he was honest and said it was not the relationship he envisioned for himself and things had definitely taken a turn for the worse with her insecurity but I felt it was more controlling behaviour. He didn’t want to leave as they also have 2 children but said he would talk to her.
After this we realised we had been blocked. He unblocked me one day to explain that she didn’t like what was discussed and demanded he has nothing to do with us as we are jealous and trying to break up their relationship.

I want to report her behaviour too but like you I am concerned about social services as I know they are both good parents, just maybe not suited to be together in a relationship. We have other friends who are supportive of him and have also said they don’t like what’s going on- to him directly.

we have given him information on domestic abuse and have tried to put him in contact with different mens charities.

Dacadactyl · 28/03/2023 18:38

LemonTT · 28/03/2023 18:37

I think you have observed some changes in his behaviour towards you. He is not spending time with you and is reducing contact. When with you his wife is in contact a lot.

He could be subject to coercive control. But she could just not like his relationship with you and has asked him to cool it off. Maybe because she is unreasonably jealous and controlling. Maybe because she is rightly seeing something more than a platonic relationship between you both.

This

Weallgottachangesometime · 28/03/2023 18:39

This does sound worrying but I would try to link with friend and encourage them to access domestic abuse support. I suspect coercive control would be hard to evidence for police unless he was willing to engage with them.

Do you ever see him anymore?

Original poster

MarsJupiterMoon · 28/03/2023 18:40

LemonTT · 28/03/2023 18:37

I think you have observed some changes in his behaviour towards you. He is not spending time with you and is reducing contact. When with you his wife is in contact a lot.

He could be subject to coercive control. But she could just not like his relationship with you and has asked him to cool it off. Maybe because she is unreasonably jealous and controlling. Maybe because she is rightly seeing something more than a platonic relationship between you both.

It’s other friends too (male) so I don’t think it’s just me. It’s a concern in general amongst our friendship group. The thing is as well everyone feels like there’s something ‘odd’ about her. She’s never been anything other than polite and nice but she makes everyone feel uneasy, it’s hard to explain and this was before I was aware of anything negative. She just has something about her that puts me on edge

OP posts:

Original poster

MarsJupiterMoon · 28/03/2023 18:41

LemonTT · 28/03/2023 18:37

I think you have observed some changes in his behaviour towards you. He is not spending time with you and is reducing contact. When with you his wife is in contact a lot.

He could be subject to coercive control. But she could just not like his relationship with you and has asked him to cool it off. Maybe because she is unreasonably jealous and controlling. Maybe because she is rightly seeing something more than a platonic relationship between you both.

It’s 100% just friendship. The only feeling I have for him are as friends . I’m married and pregnant I’m sure she knows I’m not after her husband

OP posts:

Original poster

MarsJupiterMoon · 28/03/2023 18:44

Hiddenvoice · 28/03/2023 18:38

My friend has a relationship like this. He has now cut all contact with me and my dh (blocked us on everything) as we spoke to him about it. He was going through the exact same thing. He came over to our house one day to pick something up and she sent a ridiculous amount of messages as she had checked his location and had not ‘approved’ this visit. He also had to stop any contact with female friends. I was previously friends with her but it very much felt like she wanted to keep me close to keep an eye on me.

When we spoke to him about everything we noticed,
he was honest and said it was not the relationship he envisioned for himself and things had definitely taken a turn for the worse with her insecurity but I felt it was more controlling behaviour. He didn’t want to leave as they also have 2 children but said he would talk to her.
After this we realised we had been blocked. He unblocked me one day to explain that she didn’t like what was discussed and demanded he has nothing to do with us as we are jealous and trying to break up their relationship.

I want to report her behaviour too but like you I am concerned about social services as I know they are both good parents, just maybe not suited to be together in a relationship. We have other friends who are supportive of him and have also said they don’t like what’s going on- to him directly.

we have given him information on domestic abuse and have tried to put him in contact with different mens charities.

This sounds so similar - the checking location and pre approval of things is exactly the same

OP posts:

Allthecheeseplease · 28/03/2023 18:46

No one would question this if the victim was a woman. I wouldn't report in this situation but I would try to talk to my friend privately to see if they are ok.

Pickle4444 · 28/03/2023 18:48

OP when roughly did you notice a change in intensity / behaviour? It seems like it’s escalated! And yes it absolutely meets the threshold of coercive control.

Hiddenvoice · 28/03/2023 18:48

Try talk to him, it might be tough if she likes to approve all his plans but will be good for him to get out the house and have a break. I imagine he’s very much aware of it but doesn’t want to risk the relationship or his family.
She needs support but I guess it might be better coming from one of her friends rather than one of his. Have you ever met any of her friends?

Moredrama · 28/03/2023 20:35

Many men fall into this situation because people don’t take it as seriously as they would if the genders were reversed. It’s very sad.
Men also don’t want to be seen as “weak” so struggle to open up about it. Then there’s the added fear that if they leave they won’t get to see their kids - and sadly this is often the case when the woman is like that.

Social services would likely get involved and rightly they should. It’s easy to say they are both good parents, but don’t for one moment believe that she treats her DP so badly but let’s the kids live a normal and happy life.

I’ve seen it before, where the children are so manipulated and controlled even into adulthood, and the dad is so scared to make a wrong move for fear of what he could lose. If he pushes back it looks like poor mum is the victim because she’s the woman and dads voice is louder.

You need to get him in touch with a support charity, or his GP. It’s an awful way to have to live

overitall100 · 12/04/2023 19:46

This is really interesting as my brother seems to be in the same situation. Won't respond to messages. His partner sounds very similar. Quiet and observing. Doesn't say much. It has caused enormous grief in our family.
Mr brother seems besotted and has lost his personality. We aren't allowed to see him without here there and she has said some awful racist things in front of my mixed race family - that I know he would have found abhorrent before but now just says she is the victim is it has upset her with people knowing what she said.
I am really sorry about your friend and hope things get better.
Have you suggested maybe meeting up?

overitall100 · 12/04/2023 19:52

Hiddenvoice · 28/03/2023 18:38

My friend has a relationship like this. He has now cut all contact with me and my dh (blocked us on everything) as we spoke to him about it. He was going through the exact same thing. He came over to our house one day to pick something up and she sent a ridiculous amount of messages as she had checked his location and had not ‘approved’ this visit. He also had to stop any contact with female friends. I was previously friends with her but it very much felt like she wanted to keep me close to keep an eye on me.

When we spoke to him about everything we noticed,
he was honest and said it was not the relationship he envisioned for himself and things had definitely taken a turn for the worse with her insecurity but I felt it was more controlling behaviour. He didn’t want to leave as they also have 2 children but said he would talk to her.
After this we realised we had been blocked. He unblocked me one day to explain that she didn’t like what was discussed and demanded he has nothing to do with us as we are jealous and trying to break up their relationship.

I want to report her behaviour too but like you I am concerned about social services as I know they are both good parents, just maybe not suited to be together in a relationship. We have other friends who are supportive of him and have also said they don’t like what’s going on- to him directly.

we have given him information on domestic abuse and have tried to put him in contact with different mens charities.

Same. My siblings are blocked. No responses at all to contact. His partner already had kids when they met but my brother had a step daughter from a previous relationship and a cute little dog. Within a year he had told the step daughter he would no longer adopt her and lost touch. Next the dog went and now siblings. My brother seems okay with losing everything and just fitting into this woman's world. I really don't think he is happy but is trying to convince himself that he is.

DeeplyMovingExperience · 12/04/2023 20:05

This is awful. My brother was in a highly controlling situation and couldn't do anything without his wife's say-so. He knew it was wrong, but didn't have the motivation to do anything about it.

There are charities who can advise on this. A couple are -

Mankind
https://www.mankind.org.uk/
01823 334244

Respect (men's advice line)
https://mensadviceline.org.uk/
8010327 0808 8010327

I really hope he can find a way out.

Male Victims of Domestic Abuse – Please call 01823 334244 to speak to us confidentially -

Support for male victims of domestic abuse and male victims of domestic violence from across the whole of the UK. Please call our Helpline.

https://www.mankind.org.uk/

overitall100 · 12/04/2023 20:07

@DeeplyMovingExperience May I ask if he got out of it? I hope things got better. My brother is exactly the same.

bellac11 · 12/04/2023 20:11

Posters falling over themselves to dismiss this because its female to male.

Ruffpuff · 12/04/2023 20:13

Please report it to the police. There are laws that cover coercive control now, from what you’ve mentioned it definitely meets the points to prove. There may not be much the police can do legally without evidence, but they will speak to him and hopefully raise the red flags to him.
SS won’t be too interested in the children with a case of CC. In fact, they’re pretty useless with physical abuse too.

DeeplyMovingExperience · 12/04/2023 20:13

It's actually really complicated and I can't go into details. He has attempted suicide more than once. Ended up in a psychiatric unit for a while. Still won't divorce her. He just can't face up to it.

I think a lot of men who find themselves in this situation get kind of "stuck". These are the kind of blokes who can't even be arsed to organise a nice birthday gift for the Mrs if you know what I mean. We see them described all the time here on Mumsnet. They expect life to just happen around them and are generally a bit useless on the life skills front.

His wife is a toxic, controlling two-faced bitch. She goes to church every Sunday and butter wouldn't melt in her mouth.

Precipice · 12/04/2023 20:14

Many men fall into this situation because people don’t take it as seriously as they would if the genders were reversed. It’s very sad.
Men also don’t want to be seen as “weak” so struggle to open up about it.

Lots of women end up in coercive relationships. "Male aggressor, female victim" may be the standard 'model' (probably because it is actually more common), but when the abuse isn't physical, it's still often quite minimised.

Women don't want to be seen as "weak" either. Women too feel shame and struggle to open up about their struggles, both because they've been convinced to normalise it and because they don't want to admit that it's happening to them (and that they hadn't just LTB at the first red flag as they'd liked to think of themselves that they would have). Do you think that women have no sense of dignity so they can't feel shame?

overitall100 · 12/04/2023 20:16

@DeeplyMovingExperience It really is hard seeing someone being taken advantage of. Seeing their confidence slip away. In my experience my brother's inability to be strong about it all has turned him in to a very defensive and not so pleasant person at times.

MayThe4th · 12/04/2023 20:23

Precipice · 12/04/2023 20:14

Many men fall into this situation because people don’t take it as seriously as they would if the genders were reversed. It’s very sad.
Men also don’t want to be seen as “weak” so struggle to open up about it.

Lots of women end up in coercive relationships. "Male aggressor, female victim" may be the standard 'model' (probably because it is actually more common), but when the abuse isn't physical, it's still often quite minimised.

Women don't want to be seen as "weak" either. Women too feel shame and struggle to open up about their struggles, both because they've been convinced to normalise it and because they don't want to admit that it's happening to them (and that they hadn't just LTB at the first red flag as they'd liked to think of themselves that they would have). Do you think that women have no sense of dignity so they can't feel shame?

There’s always one.

If this was a thread about a woman in a coercive relationship and someone piped up with “men are also victims” they would be lynched.

There are several threads about women in coercive relationships, perhaps you should go and comment on one of those instead of highjacking the OP’s thread with your own agenda.

DeeplyMovingExperience · 12/04/2023 20:32

@MarsJupiterMoon I would definitely encourage you to stay in touch with your friend so that a door remains open for him. Do that in any way you can. A Wattsap group with other friends in it. A lighthearted postcard (through the post obviously). Keeping everything light so she can't look for hidden meanings or fault in the messages.

For him to know that there are people out there who are thinking of him is important. It lets him know that he's not forgotten and totally alone.

Does he live far away? Is there a friend who can pop round on the excuse of just passing by and thought I'd knock on your door for a cup of tea?

The most worrying time is when they've gone totally silent and off-radar.