Am I being unreasonable?

[Jemski39]

Hello,
So a bit of background. I have been with my DP for around 3 years. We both have children from previous relationships. He has met mine (older), I have not met his (reasonably young). This on the most part is due to his ex and him worrying about her withholding access and making things difficult. But also he hates confrontation and will literally do anything to avoid rocking the boat, not just with her, but in general.
Yesterday was his birthday, we spent the day together and he then went to collect his children from school, with a plan to take them to his and have them overnight. He ended up having dinner at his ex's house and going home later with the children. I actually don't have any issues with this, my problem is that he lied about it. I popped over to drop some bits off and he wasn't home, this is how I found out. When I asked him about it, he said that it wasn't planned and they'd gone back to collect the children's overnight stuff and ended up staying for a bit. And that he didn't see a problem with it. I don't either tbh, but I do find it a bit odd. I have a friendly co parenting relationship with my ex, but I wouldn't do this. If I'm honest I think that she probably suggested it and he agreed as it's easier, as was not telling me. I haven't heard from him today, again, I suspect this is because he's been caught out. He has previous for lying. He is also depressed and on a waiting list to have therapy.
Now I am starting to doubt myself and wonder if I'm overreacting? Thoughts please?

He has previous for lying.

Hmm.

What is it you’re worried about in this scenario?

Well you know you can’t trust him. Honestly just bin him! You are questioning your own sense of reality. Is it really worth the stress?

Weak, spineless men give me the ick. Don't you have the ick?

He avoids, he lies, he makes excuses. Weak.

I guess I'm questioning myself on whether I have overreacted. He seems to think I'm annoyed because he was he was at his ex's house. I'm actually really pissed off that he's lied. He says there was nothing to it, so why lie? I find his ex exhausting if I'm honest. She relentlessly texts him with anything and everything about the children. I understand that they need to have a co-parenting relationship, but the other night it was to say that one of the children took ages to go to sleep because he need to burp! And it irritates me that he entertains it.
You're right, he is weak and he does avoid, with almost everything. But there is more to him than these negatives. I don't really know the purpose of my post, I'm just totally fed up and needed to vent. He knows he has issues with lying and if I'm honest his self esteem. He also carries a lot of guilt about not living with the kids, but surely you sort your shit out if you know this? We work together, which makes it a little more complicated, no clean break if I were to end it. I suppose I'm hoping he will get his shit together because I love him and I also know he has MH problems that need addressing.

OP sorry to say but you need to seriously consider whether this relationship is worth it long term.
You've been together 3 years and not met his children, for fear that his ex might not react well to it and withhold access? It’s been 3 years, so why would she, especially given that they must be amicable enough if she’s constantly texting him and having dinner with him on his birthday. It seems to me that they want to carry on playing happy families when they clearly aren’t that any more! How long do you put your life on hold for?

The fact that he’s an avoider is a big problem and means you’ll either never get to have a proper relationship due to his worry over his ex not liking it, or you’ll finally meet his kids/blend families which can have a whole heap of issues in itself (especially if he’s got guilt and wanting to be Disney daddy) and you’ll be hitting your head against a wall trying to deal with it all on your own! On top of that he will be constantly lying to you.
I’m speaking from experience (feel free to read my posts). If anything, the fact you haven’t blended families or had children or got married means you can walk away from this relatively unscathed, if you want to.

Thank you for your reply. I think you've hit the nail on the head with everything that you have said. I have been holding out and hoping that with therapy (for him) things may improve, but maybe that is wishful thinking.
It's a very odd situation with the ex, they've not been together for 5 years and split because he had an affair. I think that she wanted him to prove he was sorry after it came out, but he never did, so she didn't take him back. She kind of manipulates him to do what she wants but shes always nice about it (if that makes sense). She's actually very clever. He has the children when she wants, no set days etc. When they split, she asked him to sign the house over to her, which he did. I think, if I'm honest, he just goes along with what she says because he still feels a lot of guilt over his affair. It's odd because when it's her birthday, he won't see her and is not invited but she seems to think that she should host his birthday for him and the children. I don't think she wants to be with him, I just don't think she wants him to be happy with anyone.
I know he worries that she will tell the children what he did and that they will hate him.
There is a part of me that wants to walk away, but I also love you this man. My children have a good relationship with him. And we get on brilliantly. But this is obviously a huge issue and I struggle because of the lies, I never feel like I can fully trust him.
You mentioned that you were speaking from experience, did things improve and are you happy now?

I wish I could say yes things improved, but in all honesty we are just treading water. We have some good times but something always crops up. I have thought a lot about leaving but it’s hard to walk away from my marriage, I’m still in a bit of a limbo phase.

Your DP’s behaviour makes a bit more sense now knowing he had an affair. He has the Disney dad well and truly engrained but also has the fear of his secret coming out and the children not wanting to see him. The reality is though that given he and his ex have been apart so long it’s unlikely to impact the kids so much at this stage, though it’s not nice they will have got used to the new structure so they won’t feel the same hurt about the upheaval. Plus if they are young they probably wouldn’t really understand the severity of his actions anyway.
I think a chunk of his guilt should have been lifted when he signed the house over to his ex, what more could he do to try to put it right?

Has your DP agreed to therapy? It may indeed help, a professional breaking things down for him and hopefully making him see that this dynamic isn’t good for anyone. Unfortunately my DH refuses to go to therapy, so I know if something doesn’t change soon then it will have to be over whether I like it or not.
If your DP won’t go to therapy, or it doesn’t help things, then you may need to walk away. Spending your life constantly wondering what’s the truth and what’s lies, constantly dealing with drama and fall outs, is so extremely draining. And your kids will pick up on that.

Thing is - until his children are of an age where they can make decisions for themselves with regards to how they want to divide their tIme between parents you will always have this issue… possibly right up until they are adults.

you want this kinda relationship and ballache for the next what? 8/9/10 years?

nah… hard swerve for me

I'm sorry things haven't gotten any better for you. It sounds really challenging and must be so hard for you. It's a shame for DH won't go to therapy to help with his issues.

DP is now on the waiting list for CBT therapy, it took a long time for him to go to the doctors. Probably 6 months from when he told me he was depressed.

I'm not sure what else he can do in terms of trying to make things right with his ex. He walked away with nothing, he pays a decent amount of maintenance, and has the children whenever she wants and as much as he can.
Things got a little better for when she met someone else, but that didn't last very long. I think lockdown caused them to split. He has said in the past that he should be grateful that he is allowed to see his children after what he did. She told the eldest, who was 4 at the time, that daddy doesn't live with them anymore because he told lies to mummy.
I understand that what he did to her was terrible but it's been 5 years. Is she ever going to let him move on and stop with the guilt trip? It's not like she still wants to be with him, so I don't really understand it.
I feel that she emotional manipulates him because she knows he's guilt ridden about the children. Its exhausting tbh. His DC are 9 and 7, so young. Mine are 13 and 15. I love him but his lack of assertiveness and his unwillingness to rock the boat is really starting to piss me off.

No not really. I love him and I want to support him. But I don't think I can do this for much longer

What’s wrong with her telling the 4 year old why they split up? That’s her decision as a parent. And telling her because it’s of Daddy’s lies is accurate.

You know he has form for lying. You haven’t met his kids. You seem so convinced she is the problem. Yet also acknowledge he is a liar AND he avoids any l thing that could be confrontational. It’s entirely possible that a lot of what you know as ‘facts’ are not.

I can’t believe him cheating and not making an effort to fix things, didn’t put you off tbh.

You must like the confrontation avoidance part of him. Because you say you love him. The problem is that he, of course, would be like that with everyone. Which you don’t like.

I am guessing you suspected he was lying about where he was (though it’s not clear if it was a plan change or he actually told you he was at home), otherwise why would you pop round unannounced when his kids were meant to be there and you have never met them.

I think you know this relationship is at the end of the road. It’s not for you. But you aren’t quite ready to end it. You will when you are ready though.

Its been years of an emotional rollercoaster for me. Looking back I knew early on that I wasn’t happy with his behaviour, yet it’s so easy to ignore those red flags when you’re in a “honeymoon” phase.

It’s good that your DP is going to get therapy. Whether you decide to stay with him or not he clearly needs this.

His ex will carry on taking the mick and guilt tripping him as long as he allows her to. It’s so easy to blame her but she can only do what he puts up with. And the problem is that whilst they are both like this, you won’t get to have a normal relationship with him, because if he does introduce you to his kids, she will ramp up her behaviour and his behaviour will make your relationship even harder.

I think the previous poster is possibly right that you went round on his birthday because something didn’t sit right with you. This kind of relationship makes you go crazy, and even when you have been vindicated you somehow accept their lame excuses and try to move on (I say it as someone in that kind of relationship, not knocking you).

Its so hard when you love someone and really want to believe things can get better. I hope things get easier for you

There's nothing wrong with her telling DC that they have spilt up. But saying it's because he lied seems a lot for a 4 year old. That's just my opinion and was her choice as Mum.

The fact that he didn't try to rebuild his relationship after his affair came out was because didn't want to be in the relationship, surely it would have been worse to try and to stay with her feeling like that? I obviously don't like that he cheated, it's not an attractive quality but that was their relationship, not ours.

I don't like the avoidance part of his personality and I wasn't aware of this until further into our relationship when problems arose, I was already in love with him by then.

I don't blame her for everything but I do find her behaviour a bit odd, I'm glad for him that that are able to co-parent and discuss the DC, but it does piss me off with the relentless messaging. Especially when it's to say that one of the DC had a poo or needed to burp 🤦‍♂️.

No, I didn't suspect him of lying on his birthday. He had bought some popcorn and breakfast stuff for the DC and left it at mine, so was just dropping it over.
Maybe you're right about it being the end of the road, I guess time will tell.

Thank you, I hope so too. I agree that it's easier to ignore the red flags etc. Especially when you really want something to work.

I'm really hoping therapy does work, regardless of whether we stay together. I personally think he has deep routed issues.

I know it's not her fault, it's just easier to blame her I guess. Which I know is wrong but I can't help it sometimes. I also think it must be tiring for them both.
I think you're right about the DC and meeting me, this is partly why I've not pushed it with him. I just feel like it will cause so much hassle. Maybe once he's made some progress with therapy, if we do decide to stay together.

If you knew you weren't allowed to meet his children, why did you pop over to his with some things when you thought they were going to be there?

I am not seeing that he did lie to be honest, he just didn’t tell you where he was when you weren’t together, that is not a lie, he didn’t lie about it. I don’t think that is really the issue here at all, I think that you haven’t met his children after three years is a bigger issue. Your life is never going to move forward whilst you are hidden away like that.

Well this is the first thing that struck me

But I don't think you want to hear it. You don't trust him. He has previous for lying. Clearly he has because he had an affair and cheated on his wife. So you know he's not to be trusted.

Three years and you're still in the shadows. His kids aren't that young they couldn't meet you after three years.

He sounds like he just goes for the easy option. You sound very angry towards his ex. But the only one you can be focused on is him if he lets her behaviour upset you. That's on him as he's putting her ahead of you. Sounds like that will always be the case.

It seems a lot to you. But that wasn’t your decision to make as a mother. It was hers. Because they are their children. That’s my point. Why did you feel the need to mention it? Your opinion on it is neither here nor there and she certainly, didn’t do anything she shouldn’t have done. Nor did she speak lies. That’s a very age appropriate thing she said. She didn’t need to lie to her child, to protect him from what he did. He did lie.

I am not trying to needle you. But all through your posts you are dripping in things that are entirely irrelevant and things you can know as fact, about her. How she acts, how she acts with him, choices she made as a parent and non of it changes anything. You not being happy, in your relationship isn’t her fault. She doesn’t know you exist. She parenting and coparenting as she does and as they have together, she has no idea there’s someone else to consider. It’s his job to consider you.

If he didn’t want to be in the relationship he could have left and not cheated on her. But he found it easier to cheat, disrespect and inflict extra pain on her, because he didn’t want to face breaking up and avoid conflict. So he made more conflict. Why was he there and cheating if he didn’t want to be with her?

Because that’s the pattern of his behaviour. He does what he wants and hides it from his partners, he causes more damage and more pain rather than deal with a difficult conversation or situation. So when you say ‘that was their relationship not ours’, that’s not true. Because he is displaying the same sort of behaviour that led to him cheating. He was half of that relationship and half of this one and still acting the same. So they are not unconnected.

I get you fell in love with him. But being in love doesn’t mean you have to be with someone. Especially if huge parts of their personality are things do not work for you. Especially when you know they are displaying poor behaviour that consistently leads them to do things, that make you feel unhappy. You must get something out of the parts of his personality, you claim to dislike or your feelings would have ebbed a lot earlier. Maybe for a while, it was nice to have someone who is a conflict free zone. Maybe it felt easier than your other relationships, but now you are waking up and realising that he achieves that by lying and deceiving.

I think you are trying a bit too hard to convince yourself that it’s not his fault. Or not mainly his. Or that it’s not such a big problem, because you are afraid of the end of a relationship. Not afraid of being without him. Lots of us have been there. Holding on when we know we shouldn’t because the alternative is a little intimidating.

I get you were just ‘popping round’ because it was for his kids or what not. But that’s an odd thing to do. You hadn’t met his children. But set off to his, to drop stuff before sending a quick text or call saying he had forgot the stuff and you are dropping it off. Before my dp met my kids or I had told them I was seeing someone, if dp had done that I would be pretty annoyed as it would raise questions. Who is that, why did he have food you bought for our house? Especially with kids 9 and up. They don’t miss things like this.

You may not be ready to admit it, but you did that for a reason. Either to try and make the kids aware of your existence (even if not as a partner) or because you suspected something. Maybe you should be a little more honest with yourself.

OP you’re bound to have negative views towards his ex based on what’s happening. It is actually both of them that are the problem, not just your DP.
The fact she texts him over every little thing suggests that either she hasn’t got over him yet, or she has found out about you.
Its been a long time for her to be still contacting him over every little trivial thing.

The plus side is that as the DC get older and have their own phones, they can contact their dad directly and it will reduce the contact with his ex - though given how persistent she is, I’d say that will take a while to happen, unless she meets someone else who is as fed up of this dynamic as you are.

I think you need to force the issue about meeting his kids now (spending the odd day out together first rather than being at each other’s houses). His response to that will tell you whether it’s even worth trying to work on the relationship.
Its been 3 years and he’s met your kids. He doesn’t really have a good enough excuse now. Even if his ex tells his kids what he did, it’s been some time now and they have seen their parents spend time together and get along since it happened, so they aren’t going to feel torn like they have to ditch dad and side with mum.

OP, honestly, he has this enmeshed relationship with his ex because he wants it to be like that. He's not scared or intimidated by her, or being blackmailed into being in constant contact with her and not being able to introduce you to his kids after 3 years. It's not because of those things, it's because this is the dynamic that he is choosing. It's just easy for men like him to throw out the 'oh I'm scared she will stop me from seeing my kids' line because most women won't argue with this. And thus the status quo remains. He still has a sort of husband and wife dynamic with his ex, and sex and dates etc with you.

Would I put up with my ex dictating how I live my life and how I parent my children, or contacting me all day every day? No. Because I don't want to.

Hi, thanks for all your responses. Its helpful to get different perspectives.
DPs ex does know about me, and isn't happy about it. This is part of the problem, and a big part of the relentless text messages. When the kids are with him, there is minimal contact between them, but if they're with her, it's a lot. (I've seen the messages etc). I'm not angry with her, and I don't blame her for everything. I'm very aware of his flaws. It's just frustrating at times.
I agree that the DC would probably be okay, even if she did tell them the truth. I think there is a real fear there for him though. And I also think that it would be unfair for them as they're not able to understand the complexities of adult relationships.

Of course she can absolutely say what she likes to her children, I just thought it was sad that DC was told that about his dad as he was so young.

It's not usual for me to pop things over when his DC are there, it's happened before and is not something DP has an issue with. sometimes I will go over in the evening when they are in bed, especially if we haven't had much time together due to work etc. And I did text him to let him know what I was doing, he just didn't read it before I arrived.

He came over yesterday and we talked. Mostly about his lying, not just to me, but to everyone. He knows this is a huge problem which needs to change. He starts his CBT therapy very soon, so this is something he will be able to address during these sessions. He also agreed that I need to meet his DC. We have agreed to see how things go once he has started the CBT and introduce me slowly so that they hopefully won't feel massively unsettled.

Hi OP, this is a really positive update.

It’s good that you were able to have that open and honest conversation with your DP, and that he has agreed it’s time for you to meet his DC.

The ex’s behaviour makes a lot of sense if she knows about you. She’s not moved on and doesn’t like that he has so is trying to show you that she’s still there. The best way to approach it is for your DP to have time away from his phone when he’s with you. I get that there’s times when there could be a genuine need for her to contact him, but it’s no different to him being busy at work.
It will send a strong message to her that he won’t be at her beck and call 24/7 and that he values his time with you.
I recall my DH’s ex constantly contacting him in the early days, despite her having a DP, she was so obsessed with our relationship (or at least acted like it). After one particular occasion he pushed back at responding all the time, even if we were just watching TV together. He realised how ridiculous it was and that if it was anything particularly urgent she would ring him.
She didn’t like it, she felt his relationship with me had changed him. Truth is it did, for the better. Before he met me he felt he had to jump to attention all the time, do what she wanted, when she wanted, in order to prove himself as a father, like he wasn’t entitled to a life of his own. It’s a shame so many women are like this, but it doesn’t mean everyone has to suffer for it.

I hope this is the start of a positive new chapter for you all 💐

I thought this. If you haven’t met his kids then what would they think? Were you trying to catch him out??????

No, I thought he was at home as that's where he said he was. I've dropped stuff before and it's never been an issue for us. We only live 10 mins apart and I usually call him when I'm outside as his doorbell doesn't work and he lives in a flat.