Can somebody change?

[Canyouchange]

If someone is seeking therapy, do you think they can truly change? A relationship that was previously toxic and predictably challenging; could it ever be good?

No.

Yes, but it takes a huge amount of strength, honesty, humility and self awareness and few people can walk that path.

No I don’t think so.

It really depends what the root of the issues was. If it was addiction, mental health, unprocessed trauma etc then there’s every chance if they properly engage with therapy they can change. Whether that can happen while remaining in a toxic relationship though, I’d say no. it’s best to do the work on yourself when you’re single so you can fully invest (and the person on the receiving end of the damaging behaviours doesn’t have to stick around and put up with them, whatever the reason).

Some people are just incompatible and bring out the worst in each other and no amount of therapy will change that. If someone is actively abusive then again I think ending relationship is the first priority. Whether or not they change again depends on the root cause and their willingness to engage.

İt depends on what needs to change. Someone been abusive? No I wouldn't stick around expecting change.

i think it depends if the person in therapy really truly wants to change and if the other person is willing to put up with a lengthy transition period knowing it might not work anyway.

This. Both parties have to be completely genuine about being willing to, and wanting to, change.

otherwise, no.

Of course you can change if you want to OP, and if you're truly prepared to put in the work.

A lot also depends on your motivations - do you have a real desire for change because you knows it's the right thing for you (a positive motivator) or is it fear of losing something you have (a negative motivator)? IME positive motivators are more likely to result in real and lasting change.

I didn't mean myself. I meant someone else.

It’s very unlikely they will ever change. People hang on to hope but most the time it’s a wasted effort. I would say maybe 2 out of 100 change. It’s just so rare.

You're talking about an abusive person who is promising the world to get you to take them back or keep you, yes?

I don't believe so, no. I think to abuse someone, you have a lack of basic empathy that should have developed by the time you're an adult. I don't think you can learn it through therapy.

I also think that once there has been abuse in a relationship, it's impossible to undo that dynamic - you can't forget that look in his eye or that tone of voice, you recognise those things and even if he no longer raises the fist (or whatever behaviour), it's instilled in you to back down/appease.

You can't unscrew the pooch.

Other men are available.

You should never base a relationship on someone’s potential. You will likely be disappointed. You have to base it on the day-to-day reality of being with them. The best indicator of future behaviour is past behaviour. If the relationship has been toxic, you’re far better off just walking away.

I wonder why you want to be in a relationship with someone when they have proven to you that it may turn out to be toxic? What stops you looking for someone you don't have a poor relationship history with? What makes this person worth sitting around waiting for?

No—they either can’t or won’t change or, if they do, they will be so different that the previous relationship with you will no longer make sense. If the problem was addiction, for example, sobriety will return them to an unfamiliar place—they will need to resume growing and maturing and you might no be the right partner for them. Ditto if the issue is trauma. The post therapy person they will be might be too healthy to get dragged back to the old relationship which was the best they could do at the time.

As someone who is trying to change - see previous stuff by me if you wish - I'd say there are no guarantees. I am in a relationship where both of us have behaved badly to abusively. I can see that now, my wife cannot. Someone above said you can't forget what was done and said and I agree with that, although my wife asks me to forget what she did and does - very unpleasant speech, control through monitoring social media or bad moods if I want to do something without her. I've given up on friends and any social activities/hobbies of my own to keep the peace but then the resentment builds and I get moody and miserable so the toxicity continues.

I'd say I'd have a better chance of change if I was on my own but it's still only a small chance not a guarantee. Within a relationship that is, for want of a better word, toxic, I'd say I might be able to change who I am with others but not our relationship dynamic so real change cannot happen.

That said, I've been advised by some that we should stay together so we don't hurt anyone else bar ourselves. If I left I'd be happier and she more unhappy - is that fair?

It's never something I'd recommended to anyone else. I'd say if there's abuse leave and do the honest hard work on yourself whether you are the abuser or the abused and don't have a relationship again until the work has been thorough. And don't lie to yourself or make change conditional on others changing.

Imagine yourself tested to the limit, will you really respond differently now? Can you see what you did that was wrong or unhelpful to you and others and do you understand why you did it and why you didn't do something differently.

Do you have empathy for those you hurt, do you now really feel what you did was wrong. Have you worked hard to make amends, truly apologise without expectation of forgiveness from those you hurt.

Can you come to value the changed version of yourself (self dislike seems to be a predictor of unhelpful ways of behaving to others and self in my opinion)

If you are hoping someone else will change then ask yourself those questions about them. If you are coming up with anything but solid yeses then the odds are stacked way way against any meaningful or long lasting change.

If it's anger management I do not think it's generally successful, OP.

No.

Yes! Otherwise what's the point of therapy?

Some things therapy can fix. Others not. It doesn't provide a personality transplant.

Honestly, it's not a personality thing.. I guess it's a paranoia thing, and a childhood trauma thing and maybe a historic relationship thing. I miss her, and I just wish she could show me she is truly changing.

I didn't mean myself. I meant someone else.

That's entirely out of your control though. You can't pin your hopes on that. If a relationship is toxic you need to leave it.

Healthy relationships don't have 'things'. A 'thing' is an excuse for a behaviour.

in theory, yes of course people can change.
I have met a lot fo them. Ex alcoholics, people who have completely changed their life round etc etc.

But the thing is it is extremely hard to make genuine change, and it is more common to not be able to actually do it.

Sadly, most people cannot unlearn the toxic behaviours they learnt in their earlier years.
So usually I would say start from the viewpoint that no, they can't and then if they prove you wrong that is a bonus.

I am guessing from how you phrased it that this is a relative rather than a ex. So you could, if they show that they are trying, begin a very tentative relationship again and see how it goes.

No

People can change for the right person maybe.