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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

MIL and Elder Care Expectations

55 replies

Notdutybound · 13/03/2023 13:51

My DH has tried to have a discussion with MIL many times over the years about what she has in place for her future. She lives with her long-term partner but the house belongs to him. He has his own children who he presumably will leave the property to in the event that he dies first. He won't discuss his plans with us but has indicated that MIL will be ok. I assume there's a clause to say she can remain there until her death, but he won't confirm. MIL won't discuss it with her partner either so has no idea what her future holds.

The real issue for us is that she appears under the impression that she can come and live with us. It's been mentioned by her "jokingly" many times over the years. About a year ago DH sat her down and told her straight that moving in with us in the future is not an option. We thought the issue was resolved. However, we saw her recently and the topic came up again due to another relative's death leaving a bit of a mess behind. She stated that she wouldn't want to stay in her partner's home even if she legally could and that she would "just have to come and live with you". She then refused to engage when DH once again tried to explain why it was not an option.

This has left us feeling pretty bad as obviously, we don't want to have to keep telling her that we won't be having her here. It's absolutely out of the question though. I have no desire for living with MIL, let alone care for her in her dotage. We don't have space, money, or time for it either. We still have young children who will be at home for at least the next 15 years or so. We also both work full time and have no other family around that could help out. My own mother has made it clear that she has no expectations like this from me and frankly, my husband has been an utter arse at times over the years and while he's better now I have no desire to make any sacrifices to care for his mum (and let's be honest it would end up falling to me).

To clarify in case anybody asks we have had no family help over the years as we live miles from family so we are not in any kind of "debt" in that way.

Away, I guess my question is how do we broach this with MIL to make her understand that we are serious? I honestly believe she thinks that if she just waits until the situation arises we will have no choice but to take her in. Without wanting to come across as a completely uncaring bitch I would not agree to do so.

OP posts:
custardbear · 13/03/2023 16:29

It astounds me that people get to that age and have zero assets, does she get a pension even?

Original poster
Notdutybound · 13/03/2023 16:32

I will try and answer all of the questions:
She is late 70's but with not great health and is quite old for her age if that makes sense?
She lives hundreds of miles away from us.
DH is as clear as I am that he does not want her living with us. He is very frustrated by what he see's as her burying her head in the sand with the expectation that he will sort her out.

OP posts:
CanOfPop · 13/03/2023 16:33

Why does it astound you? She is of an age when there were no childcare tax vouchers, women were often paid less than men for very similar work, and there was no minimum wage. Lots of people work to pay their monthly bills.

Original poster
Notdutybound · 13/03/2023 16:37

Coyoacan · 13/03/2023 16:25

I don't blame for wanting to look your MIL, but your idea of "debts" being a bit of babysitting grandchildren and ignoring the eighteen or so years of your respective childhoods is a bit rich

I don't feel that my kids owe me anything for my choice of bringing them into the world and parenting them. Do you?

OP posts:
jannier · 13/03/2023 16:38

Notdutybound · 13/03/2023 15:26

I honestly don't think that her partner would leave her homeless. However, I suspect he's probably left her a lifetime interest in living in his house which wouldn't help if she needed care. She has no assets whatsoever and we don't have money to pay for her care home either. This is something I hadn't even considered before now.

Then she would go into a state provided provision just like renters with no pension do ....whatever that will be like at the time.

custardbear · 13/03/2023 16:38

CanOfPop · 13/03/2023 16:33

Why does it astound you? She is of an age when there were no childcare tax vouchers, women were often paid less than men for very similar work, and there was no minimum wage. Lots of people work to pay their monthly bills.

I figured she was younger than late 70's considering the age of the children OP has

SheilaFentiman · 13/03/2023 16:42

It is sadly very common to ignore the problem (refusing to put POA in place, visit care homes etc) until there is a crisis.

DuvetDownn · 13/03/2023 16:44

I think given her agar there’s a good chance the partner has given a lifetime interest in the house, if she can manage on her own is a different story.

DuvetDownn · 13/03/2023 16:45

Sorry that should say age.

MeMyCatsAndMyBooks · 13/03/2023 16:48

God, my mil was the same.

It took us a year of saying "no that doesn't work for us, you can't move in." For it to sink in and stop her demanding it.

Just stick to your guns.

EyesOnThePies · 13/03/2023 16:50

What do you expect her to be able to ‘sort out’?

Other than the options of remaining in her DP’s home and getting help from Carer’s / going into a council funded home / not outliving her partner / staying at home until she dies peacefully of natural causes / becomes ill and dies in hospital or at home with the provision of home based end of life care.

What other options are you expecting her to ‘sort out’?

SheilaFentiman · 13/03/2023 16:59

EyesOnThePies · 13/03/2023 16:50

What do you expect her to be able to ‘sort out’?

Other than the options of remaining in her DP’s home and getting help from Carer’s / going into a council funded home / not outliving her partner / staying at home until she dies peacefully of natural causes / becomes ill and dies in hospital or at home with the provision of home based end of life care.

What other options are you expecting her to ‘sort out’?

But she isn’t considering any of those, she’s just declaring that she’ll move in.

JeimeHonfUcoim · 13/03/2023 17:02

leaving the property to the children with a lifetime right of occupation can be an ideal outcome actually - if he left her significant funds it could end up being swallowed in care home fees anyway.

as and when her husband dies, once she knows the contents of the will she can make her plans then. there's no point pre-planning given that there's no way to know when it will happen. she already knows she's not coming to live with you, it doesn't need repeating.

she won't be on the streets - if she has no right to live in her current home, she will have the duration of the eviction process to get something lined up. she will be found a small studio or one-bed flat, and will qualify for pension credit, benefits and housing support sufficient to manage a basic but adequate level of living.

2bazookas · 13/03/2023 17:02

You said (MUM's partner) won't discuss his plans with us but has indicated that MIL will be ok. I assume there's a clause to say she can remain there until her death, but he won't confirm. MIL won't discuss it with her partner either so has no idea what her future holds.

I think her partner is tired of your intrusive questions about his financial provisions and has told Mum not to answer them either. So she pretends not to know what his arrangements are or what her future holds, and as a smokescreen she throws you a few red herrings "I'm coming to live with you!" to shut you up.

He's told you "she will be OK". That's all you need to know..

Theelephantinthecastle · 13/03/2023 17:02

My mum went through a phase of joking about living with us. I eventually just said:

I don't know if you're just joking or not but I need to tell you that that will never ever happen because we just don't get on well enough

It was a bit brutal and I felt horrible saying it but it had to be done. She looked a bit shocked, said nothing and has never raised the subject again

SheilaFentiman · 13/03/2023 17:20

2bazookas · 13/03/2023 17:02

You said (MUM's partner) won't discuss his plans with us but has indicated that MIL will be ok. I assume there's a clause to say she can remain there until her death, but he won't confirm. MIL won't discuss it with her partner either so has no idea what her future holds.

I think her partner is tired of your intrusive questions about his financial provisions and has told Mum not to answer them either. So she pretends not to know what his arrangements are or what her future holds, and as a smokescreen she throws you a few red herrings "I'm coming to live with you!" to shut you up.

He's told you "she will be OK". That's all you need to know..

“She stated that she wouldn't want to stay in her partner's home even if she legally could and that she would "just have to come and live with you". She then refused to engage when DH once again tried to explain why it was not an option.”

So it doesn’t seem like him leaving her a life interest (if that’s what he has done) solves the problem.

Sleepless1096 · 13/03/2023 17:40

She can expect whatever she wants, that doesn't mean she's going to get it.

I'd just be really clear with your husband that, if he caves, there won't be a house for her to move into. Because you'll be divorcing him and the house will have to be sold and proceeds split. He can spin it however he wants to his mother.

Sleepless1096 · 13/03/2023 17:43

Should also have said... you need to move away from the mindset that it's your job to ensure an outcome that will make her happy.

It's not... it's your job to live your best life and parent your children to the best of your ability to ensure their happiness. And no way should you divert energy/resources from them to become an unpaid carer. It will materially impact their childhoods.

Coyoacan · 13/03/2023 17:53

I don't feel that my kids owe me anything for my choice of bringing them into the world and parenting them. Do you?

Since when has being grateful been about expecting something from others.

journeyofsanity · 13/03/2023 18:38

2bazookas · 13/03/2023 17:02

You said (MUM's partner) won't discuss his plans with us but has indicated that MIL will be ok. I assume there's a clause to say she can remain there until her death, but he won't confirm. MIL won't discuss it with her partner either so has no idea what her future holds.

I think her partner is tired of your intrusive questions about his financial provisions and has told Mum not to answer them either. So she pretends not to know what his arrangements are or what her future holds, and as a smokescreen she throws you a few red herrings "I'm coming to live with you!" to shut you up.

He's told you "she will be OK". That's all you need to know..

Very naive. Plenty of people have been told things are sorted when they haven't at all. Wise to ensure the situation has been sorted and that it doesn't involve the OP

Original poster
Notdutybound · 13/03/2023 18:46

Coyoacan · 13/03/2023 17:53

I don't feel that my kids owe me anything for my choice of bringing them into the world and parenting them. Do you?

Since when has being grateful been about expecting something from others.

I’m not really sure what point you are trying to make?

OP posts:
Beamur · 13/03/2023 20:07

Plenty of people have been told things are sorted when they haven't at all. Wise to ensure the situation has been sorted and that it doesn't involve the OP
That's all well and good except the OP has no right to demand that information.

SheilaFentiman · 13/03/2023 20:17

I don’t think OP is demanding it, she says MIL won’t discuss it with her partner either.

Partyandbullshit · 13/03/2023 20:35

What choice do you have? You just have to stand your ground. You can, if you like, repeat ad nauseam. But, I reckon she knows.

she won’t take responsibility for herself, by forcing a discussion about her well-being with her partner (who obviously has her where he wants her). She won’t take responsibility for herself by availing of your DH’s help in putting plans in place. So, them’s the breaks. Butter pill to have to swallow at her age.

Mitsahne · 14/03/2023 09:23

I wouldn't assume her boyfriend has done anything for her. He may well just leave the house to his kids and she'll have to leave. She's been foolish not to try and secure even part of a place on her own - part ownership, HA etc... and now it's not really your problem. At no point will my dad or mil be living with us. Just stay firm and help organise the home for her when she needs it.