What core psychology is behind this behaviour?

[TeaStainedEgg]

I.e. what makes a person end up like this?

Could childhood emotional neglect (literally never being cuddled or told you were loved, dealing with your period totally alone at 11 because you knew your mum would be angry with you for getting it and you couldn't talk to her about anything like that) and physical abuse (in line with what a lot of us experienced in the 80's rather than systematic beatings but still, being whipped with leather belt and metal buckle, wooden spoon across back of the legs was "normal") and growing up in an outwardly respectable and well to do family where your parents actually despised each other, no-one spoke about anything, and then finding out recently that your dad was fucking your auntie for at least 10 years of your life behind your unsuspecting mum's back possibly play into this particular kind of fucked up presentation? I'm not seeking an excuse for my shitty behaviour, just insight.

(Actual rows described happen rarely. Most of the time I'm pushing down the fears described and then they bubble over after too many wines. Alcohol has now been cut out).

• never believing that your partner truly loves you. Often thinking they dislike you based on perceived lack of affection and teasing/jibes at your expense (DP thinks he is affectionate and that what I consider jibes are in fact just top bants)

• pushing them away as you feel deep down that they will one day leave you. Wanting partner to do/say something to prove they love you

As soon as they leave (because you've told them to) you are overcome with sadness and missing them but are unable to articulate that in the moment before you've caused them to leave

• if partner ended things you would not cry/beg or plead but would just accept and never try to contact them again. You would not let them see you cry or being upset.

• if partner one day stopped texting you out of the blue you would not text them and would never contact them again (half joking about this as DP says this is what would happen but I see his point).

• comparing your relationship and it's perceived failure to progress (ie not living together) with his previous relationships where he did these things much sooner with other partners as meaning that he doesn't love you enough to want these things/that in turn cements your belief that you're fundamentally unlovable.

Am I beyond help? Could couple's counselling help us?

Please be gentle as I'm very fragile right now 🙏

Classic Borderline Personality Disorder - not judging in the slightest, I'm diagnosed myself. You need to make fundamental changes to your psyche. Counselling, self-help, medication can help. For me it was the passage of time (in my forties now and very different to when I was in my twenties). It's a long road, but it's in your hands and I believe you have the capacity for success. Being in the right job and relationship helps massively. I'm LC with several family members too, and I've never been happier.

Sounds a bit like an avoidant attachment style?
I had a mainly good childhood with slight elements of what you mentioned and I've been struggling with anxious attachment. I think it can go either way

I've just started CBT therapy today and hoping I can finally finally sort this!

Attachment disorder caused by emotionally absent parents. It's extremely damaging but with therapy things can be much better. I could have written your post in my younger years.

theprivatetherapyclinic.co.uk/blog/emotionally-unavailable-parents/#:~:text=Being%20raised%20by%20an%20emotionally,for%20yourself%2C%20and%20identity%20confusion.

Thanks all.

It's not BPD. I work in a related field so am very familiar with it. My life is stable (career, mortgage, am a reliable and responsible parent) and I am not impulsive or reckless (alcohol def a trigger so that has now gone). I am very cautious and slow about getting into relationships - none of the intensity/speed associated with BPD. I'm not angry and never physical. I've never harmed myself or had suicidal ideation.

I do have bad anxiety and have had as much CBT and therapy as I have been able to access/afford. Tried sertraline but it didn't work for me (side effects). I take propranolol for my anxiety but am toying with trying another SSRI.

@BringBackCoffeeCreams I will read your link. Thank you.

You definitely have an avoidant attachment style. You sound fiercely independent even to your detriment. It's little wonder after the horrors of your childhood.

I think you either need solo counselling or you need to spend a lot of time yourself trying to challenge your way of thinking. This is keeping you safe from rejection at the moment - but at what cost?

The core psychology of avoidant attachment is that you fear rejection.

You were not provided with enough affirming love and care as a child and your ability to give and receive love and achieve a fulfilling and healthy level of trust and emotional intimacy that makes you truly feel secure is damaged as a result.

You effectively fear a partner seeing into your soul because your subconscious belief is that by truly knowing you, they would ultimately reject you. Therefore, increasing levels of emotional intimacy cause you to feel trapped and pull back because you understand that this increases your vulnerability to rejection, but conversely, any sign of rejection that does arise has you on your tiptoes and ready to run.

This is not your fault & you can do something about it.

@UserNameTwo your post really hit home and made me cry 😢

I can absolutely see myself in the Avoidant Attachment descriptions that I am now reading and agree that ultimately it's a lack of self worth/feeling unlovable and a fear of rejection/abandonment that fuel my behaviour.

What I don't identify with is the idea that I'm the one keeping DP at arm's length/being less invested in the relationship. I want more from him, always have. More affection, more sex, more I love yous, more commitment than he's ever been able/felt comfortable enough to give.

As the avoidant attachment person should I not be the one who is ultimately less bothered about the other person? The converse is true for us, sadly. I adore him and he makes me so content and happy. I've never laughed more in my life than I do when I'm with him. But he thinks that because of my occasional shitty behaviour (and don't get me wrong, it is really shitty and he shouldn't put up with it) that I don't love him or care for him which is just not the case.

It just feels that we're at cross purposes and our communication styles are wrong for each other.

He is emotionally very even and steady away. No real lows but also no real highs in that he doesn't really feel the need to express what he is thinking or feeling. He certainly doesn't feel the need to compliment me very often or tell me he loves me. That makes me feel insecure and unloved and the cycle continues.

I SO want to fix it.

They fuck you up, your mum and dad eh.

I don't think couples counselling would be a good idea but counselling for you would be of benefit. My ex acted like you laid out and I found it utterly exhausting to be with.

If you have a mix of anxious traits (wanting more closeness, more commitment, fearing your partner doesn’t want you etc) and avoidant ones, it may well be disorganized attached (very push-pull).

Being the partner of someone with disorganized attachment does feel unpredictable/chaotic and it makes you reluctant to commit as you never quite know what you’re going to get… pressure to be closer or the other person crying/raging at you for abandoning them/not being loving/good enough.

There's no reason why he doesn't have an avoidant attachment style too. I believe it's only about 50% of people who do have a secure attachment style. I certainly don't have it myself! I'm terrible with this sort of thing.

It might be that subconsciously, the fact that he isn't forthcoming with affection makes you feel even more attached to him and value what attention you are getting much more highly than you should.

Thanks @CheekyHobson . That's me in a nutshell 😐

Genuinely can't afford therapy on my own at the moment. Last had some in Aug 22 through work but it barely scratched the surface of my childhood trauma. Was more CBT based for helping with my anxiety. I would need 10+ sessions I think to be able to properly explore my past and achieve any kind of lasting change.

I have a savings account thingy that is due to pay out a few grand in April. I will look into using that maybe if bills allow.

There are lots of resources online you can use until therapy is an option?

Youtube and Instagram have plenty of information and self help videos x

I agree with the pp that it sounds like you have a disorganised attachment style, which is common for people who haven’t had their emotional needs met as a child or who have experienced a lot of inconsistency from primary caregivers.

I would recommend reading ‘Attached’ by Amir Levine and ‘Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents’ by Lindsay Gibson.

@LilLilLi Goes without saying. Will be starting a self-help journey today. If anyone knows of any good books about this stuff please post links.

In all likelihood it might already be too late for DP and I but that's almost immaterial. I need to change for me.

@Blueberry40 cross posts. Thank you for the book suggestions!

Also recommend following Vienna Pharaon (mindfulmft) on Instagram for loads of interesting info on attachment styles, how they impact relationships and tips on how you can improve things- I have a disorganised attachment style and have found her posts really helpful.

Try researching borderline personality disorder also read up on core beliefs and attachment style.

Also op therapist here. I would not recommend couples therapy at the min. You need to address your own beliefs/attachment problems. Cbt would be useful to address the beliefs developed early in your life. Dbt is the therapy for borderline personality therapy. Maybe psycho dynamic for the attachment stuff. Counselling wouldn't really be the way to go as those I. Grained beliefs need re wiring really.

I had an emotionally abusive childhood (with some of the physical abuse we thought was "normal" back in the 70s/80s but probably wasn't since those of us getting it were probably forbidden from talking about it) and have struggled with many of the issues you describe. I am currently doing therapy with a psychodynamic focus. My therapist recommended the book The Emotionally Absent Mother by Jasmin Lee Cori. It is informative but also designed as a self help book and I found it very good. From what you say I doubt couples therapy would be right at this point in time. You need to sort out you first, imho.

Wishing you all the best.

You pick someone who is also avoidant so that you get to project onto him and thus avoid your own issues by playing push pull rather than deal with the really terrifying prospect of being with someone who is consistently open and loving

Thanks @Cranarc @sarahc336

Could an SSRI potentially help me with this as well as with my anxiety? I'm looking at either citalopram or fluoxetine. The sertraline gave me lucid nightmares, terrible jaw pain and stole my orgasm (prob not an issue this time round). Stuck with it for 7 months before giving up.

I’m really following this. I’m also in an unequal dynamic with my boyfriend. For instance I feel today he’s certainly going to dump me even though we’ve actually been making a nice plan.

Here's my take - when you grow up in a volatile household, it's hard to believe a steady love is infact love.

Your parents probably did love you despite their approach to you and parenting. This makes it even more confusing. When you only know love as someone that can be both violent and manipulative but also safe and warm - we look for the same in our future partners. Took me years to figure that out.

I should add - so oftentimes, we try to evoke the volatility. We simply keep prodding the bear till it roars. Then we feel that familiar scared feeling of home - the person who says the loves us is screaming at us.....just like Mum did (or Dad).

I had a similar childhood op. It’s good you are exploring ways to improve. I can be both avoidant with some relationships and quite needy of others. I recognise the early days of creating drama and needing the screaming to feel at home. I made a partial recovery with many years on my own living in peace, getting to know and like myself. Learning independence so I felt safe with myself - if that makes sense. I became capable and self sufficient emotionally and financially and by the time I choose someone to share my life with I held on to this sense of being able to cope on my my own.

My relationships are and feel very driven by my choice. I am loving, secure and feel safe and have done so for 20 years. I have a loving, open and trusted relationship. I gave up my need for plan b many years ago. It was a slow process. Have you been honest about your safety needs? I was at first, and my dh responded with affection and love, gradually I needed it less as I felt stronger in myself.

You can recover from this. Your dp needs to understand that extra love and affection is needed, and if he can’t supply it Smurf he isn’t right for you. Start to adore yourself op. Start there first and foremost. Self love, self care and if you are putting energy into you, you will feel less dependent on dp for it. Get in touch with your needs, your inner locus of evaluation etc .