What core psychology is behind this behaviour?

[TeaStainedEgg]

I.e. what makes a person end up like this?

Could childhood emotional neglect (literally never being cuddled or told you were loved, dealing with your period totally alone at 11 because you knew your mum would be angry with you for getting it and you couldn't talk to her about anything like that) and physical abuse (in line with what a lot of us experienced in the 80's rather than systematic beatings but still, being whipped with leather belt and metal buckle, wooden spoon across back of the legs was "normal") and growing up in an outwardly respectable and well to do family where your parents actually despised each other, no-one spoke about anything, and then finding out recently that your dad was fucking your auntie for at least 10 years of your life behind your unsuspecting mum's back possibly play into this particular kind of fucked up presentation? I'm not seeking an excuse for my shitty behaviour, just insight.

(Actual rows described happen rarely. Most of the time I'm pushing down the fears described and then they bubble over after too many wines. Alcohol has now been cut out).

• never believing that your partner truly loves you. Often thinking they dislike you based on perceived lack of affection and teasing/jibes at your expense (DP thinks he is affectionate and that what I consider jibes are in fact just top bants)

• pushing them away as you feel deep down that they will one day leave you. Wanting partner to do/say something to prove they love you

As soon as they leave (because you've told them to) you are overcome with sadness and missing them but are unable to articulate that in the moment before you've caused them to leave

• if partner ended things you would not cry/beg or plead but would just accept and never try to contact them again. You would not let them see you cry or being upset.

• if partner one day stopped texting you out of the blue you would not text them and would never contact them again (half joking about this as DP says this is what would happen but I see his point).

• comparing your relationship and it's perceived failure to progress (ie not living together) with his previous relationships where he did these things much sooner with other partners as meaning that he doesn't love you enough to want these things/that in turn cements your belief that you're fundamentally unlovable.

Am I beyond help? Could couple's counselling help us?

Please be gentle as I'm very fragile right now 🙏

@Milky4 I get what you're saying but it's just not the case with DP. He has never once shouted at me or got angry. He gets frustrated and confused and then just takes himself out of the equation and goes home. He's not in any way confrontational or aggressive. I don't think he has it in him tbh. He's incredibly calm.

I do think that my parents loved me and my siblings as much as they could but that they were very damaged themselves and simply were not equipped with the emotional intelligence to be great parents. They would dispute this as they very much think that they "gave us everything" by which they mean big house, holidays etc. But no actual love or tenderness or fun or the ability to ever really relax and enjoy being a kid as you were always waiting for the next thing that you would get punished for (I was about 8 and went out in my bike wearing a newish t-shirt which I managed to rip on barbed wire. I remember hiding under a bush for hours crying and feeling absolutely petrified to go home as I knew the trouble I'd be in. Sure enough I got absolutely walloped for it. I have another very scary vivid memory of cowering in the corner of my bedroom wailing as my dad approached me with his leather belt, he was so angry and mean he was almost snarling. I get generational differences and nurture (he himself was battered by his dad, by Christian Brothers at school) but HOW could he do that to his small child?).

One of the worst things about it all was that my mum would say "Your dad will deal with you when he gets home" and then I would spend hours absolutely terrified awaiting my beating.

I look at DS who is the same age sat here next to me now and feel so relieved and proud that he has never once felt that way.

I feel so sad for my inner child.

I sound exactly like you and identify strongly with "quiet BPD" (self directed insecurity rather than lashing out), do look it up if you're curious.

The core of BPD is fear of abandonment, and hence difficulty with relationships in any form. You only need 5 out of 9 of the following symptoms, and largely to any extent (which some psychiatrists have spoken out against but that's the current diagnostic criteria). I'll list some examples here which you might agree or disagree with:

• fear of abandonment
• suddenly "going cold" on / giving up a relationship because of perceived rejection ("splitting") - going NC suddenly sounds quite extreme for an established long term partner
• paranoia - does not have to be in the psychotic sense. believing hostile intent and dislike where there is none (eg your DP's "jabs" at you)
• unstable self image (eg using others like past relationship partners as a benchmark for who you should be)
• mood changes based on small things – this is sometimes called "emotional intensity" which could be what you're thinking of, but it can be things like a perceived jibe or coldness from your partner upsets you disproportionately, even if secretly
• tendency towards / a history of risky/impulsive behaviour including substances (as you mention alcohol – well done on cutting it)
• chronic feeling of emptiness (believing you are unloveable and not really having a relationship with yourself)

Generally they think it's an emotionally invalidating childhood (which you mention) + biological predisposition combined.

Although this has been a quiet long term pattern in my life in relationships, I've not bothered with a diagnosis, but I have an ADHD diagnosis. BPD and ADHD have a very strong overlap (comorbidity) in terms of being diagnosed in the same person, so I know diagnosis is probably pretty "easy" to get in a sense.

On that note though, yes, the most "batshit crazy looking" stereotypical BPD sufferers get diagnosed and treated first/the most, but that would be like thinking you only have autism if you flap your arms and you only have ADHD (including inattentive, the "girl" associated kind) if you're running around in circles all the time!

DBT is for BPD, so written with relationships/fear of abandonment in mind. You don't need to have BPD to use DBT, if that's your concern. I've found DBT workbooks/resources so, so helpful in maintaining healthy perceptions or at least actions in my relationship, and my self-worth. It includes things like getting to know yourself and your self care, hobbies and enjoyment, etc too :)

DBT also includes unpicking "relationship myths" like "I am only loved if I ___", and gets us to note down our relationship triggers, etc

'I adore him and he makes me so content and happy.'

'He certainly doesn't feel the need to compliment me very often or tell me he loves me. That makes me feel insecure and unloved and the cycle continues.'

There is a contradiction here.

I am really sorry that you had what is quite frankly, a really fucked up childhood. I echo what PP said about counselling, and if that's not an option right now, do as much reading and journalling as you can to try to understand your patterns better.

It might be a possibility that you have subconsciously chosen someone as a partner who mirrors your triggers from childhood. By testing and pushing and needing more from him, you may be attempting to 'make right' the wrongs of your parents. Unfortunately, this will not work.

I don't believe SSRIs etc are the answer here (although they can be helpful for the right situation) as you are clear about what has caused these feelings.

I wish you luck xx

Sorry to post again OP – I feel for you and just wanted to quickly write something down. Worth noting also that in the literature, disorganised attachment style correlates strongly with BPD, so you can think of DBT as a treatment for it in a sense.

DBT also includes things like making sure we're picking healthy relationships (not necessarily choosing partners who mirror our childhood caregivers but are redeemable/approachable in some way), distress tolerance + emotional regulation (coping with feeling unloved or ignored in the immediate moment), learning how to express what we need in effective manners (eg not pushing and smothering the other person, but at the same time make your needs known in skilful ways), etc... I actually think these are helpful core literacy skills for any adult!

There's also lots of great resources (books, workbooks, even Youtube videos if that's your jam) on attachment theory. I find a lot of attachment theory is the awareness though, and then DBT is a focus on the actual practical/emotional skills to approach that with yourself and others.

After a lifetime of journalling, general counselling, a mountain of reading, in the end, I found DBT most helpful. That said, it definitely doesn't HAVE to be DBT, go with whatever is most helpful to you!

@TeaStainedEgg yes different anti depressants work very differently for people so just because you've tried sertraline I'd recommend trying another one as you might find another works really well. Seetraline is well known for causing mad dreams, they probably would have passed but probably not something you'd want to cope with on top of anxiety good luck

OP you obviously have a good understanding of yourself and why.

Just don't forget that even the child who has great attachments, in a loving and caring home can also have some of these feelings. The most grounded stable person can have self doubt, anxiety and their own troubles. It's what makes us human.

Oh no OP - I wasn't suggesting your DP is violent towards you at all. I was trying to say - your push/pull towards him, accusing him of not loving you etc might stem from you not recognising his way as love. You needing the reassurance is all because the way he loves you is unfamiliar to you. Still not sure if I'm explaining that right. But deffo not saying your DP is violent, more saying because he's calm that's almost scarier for you based on your trauma. When you live in a hypervigilent state - the calm can be more terrifying because you're waiting for the storm to strike, so you almost try to provoke it.

Well at least that's how I've reacted to my childhood. It's taken a long time for me to reach the place I'm at now.

But if looking for what you might be suffering from - yeah there's the attachments theories but also worth looking at living in a hypervigilent state.

Thanks @Milky4 that does make sense. His calmness and consistency definitely rattle me. He thinks things are ticking along nicely with nothing needing to be addressed whilst I am simultaneously internally panicking because to me the quietness means he must have gone off me or he's got bored of me or someone had caught his eye at work or some other disaster is incoming. Def hypervigilence at play.

All of this in internalised within me 99% of the time btw. We don't row apart from my drunken blowups. I am not jealous or suspicious. Never insert myself in his friendships or communications (would never dream of looking at his phone for eg). I'm not an outwardly neurotic mess at all and actually come across as quite normal most of the time I think.

It's bloody exhausting though 😞

OP - may I ask - have you ever lived on your own for any length of time, or did you move straight from parents to partner and then child?
I'm wondering if the anxiety and your reactions are part of an underlying belief of 'I can't cope if this or that happens (or doesn't happen)'?
Perhaps you put on a calm demeanour and act as if everything is sailing along smoothly, but underneath you're constantly agitated and scared that everything will spin out of control and you won't cope? Does that sound anything like you're experiencing?

Hi, just wanted to add with all the labels flying around - we all have borderline traits to some extent and all have emotional traumas that can cause problems in our relationships. It’s a sliding scale and only ‘clinical’ when it’s really affecting your day to day functioning. Just didn’t want you feeling too despondent.

There’s a great podcast about this that might help with some perspective -

podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/being-well-with-forrest-hanson-and-dr-rick-hanson/id1120885936?i=1000570293033

There’s lots of topics on that podcast that might be of interest actually.

Also if you want to explore more the effects of childhood emotional neglect I’d recommend Nicole Sachs on Instagram - she talks of emotional neglect as ‘death by a thousand paper cuts’ - it can have huge effects when added up over time. She also talks about ‘big T’ and ‘little t’ trauma (emotional neglect being the latter) and how both are detrimental and need healing. She has a podcast too linked in her bio.

www.instagram.com/p/CnsImXWvcPU/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

To understand abandonment fears and emotional flashbacks (which might pop up in your attachment relationships and make you blank or push people away etc) - ‘Complex PTSD’ by Pete Walker might be worth a read. He has bits on his website too if you want to get a flavour - www.pete-walker.com

School of Life on Yotube is also a good source of general information on things like attachment theory, childhood, trauma relationships etc - have a browse and see what grabs you as there’s too many relevant videos to list!

https://youtube.com/@theschooloflifetv

Anxious-avoidant attachment, it’s a thing
I initially thought BPD also.

In honesty I think this relationship is wrong for you, as it doesn’t give you the security you need to stop pulling away.

Based on what you’ve said try citalopram.

I feel for you & I love that poem.

Anxious and Avoidant are 2 seperate scales, not opposite ends of the same one.

It is possible to be high on both. That results in disordered attachment aka fearful avoidance - the easiest way I can think to describe that is somebody who craves love and intimacy, but sabotages relationships when they get enough of them to make them feel vulnerable.

Some people "fast cycle" between the two - wanting more love, affection, affirmation, sex etc... for a short time, then flipping to avoidant and questioning the whole basis of the relationship and pushing their partner away or simply shutting down and losing the desire for intimacy of the emotional or physical kind without knowing why. They can also go into "he can't possibly love me, something is wrong" mode and start breaking boundaries like snooping on his private communications etc...

If you think that this applies after some research, as I understand it, the route to fixing this is to develop self-soothing strategies to improve emotional regulation.

It's the avoidant in you that's subconsciously trying to use shitty behaviour to push him away. Many avoidants probably have times when they think they want more closeness/intimacy (and they genuinely do, it's just that the avoidant behaviour always kicks in to 'save' them). If avoidants exhibited avoidant behaviour all the time they'd never ever get into a relationship in the first place (and perhaps that's true for some).

I know you don't think you have any bpd, but the things you're saying do suggest it. Especially stuff like him being "emotionally even and steady" - that kind of suggests that he's normal, and you aren't recognising it from your perspective. And the nature of bpd is that no-one is likely to self diagnose it.

I don't think couples counselling is a good idea in your situation. Individual counselling would be though.

Hi OP

Similar background with ECN. Caused me a lot of overlapping issues. 15 counselling sessions 5 years ago and lots of internal work raised my awareness and let things go. Can be a long and not easy journey but helped me.

Doing some online therapy through Betterhelp. Finding it useful and not as expensive.

Recently been sent a link for a free week trial.

Link below ;
www.betterhelp.com/rpc/48c7028f7114032d-2-06?utm_campaign=referral_reminder&utm_source=email-camp&utm_term=eg_ref_rem_1.tpl.m02

Good luck and look after your inner self. Things will fall in place.

I would suggest seeing a Relational developmental psychotherapist. You can find them on the UKCP website.

That’s a lot of childhood shit
amd of course it’s driving you , how you are the world , relationships etc
but I say 1:1 therapy first x