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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Are we both at fault?

31 replies

uptomuch · 16/02/2023 17:07

Posting this because I think I might be as much to blame as dh.

Argument in the car this morning after we had dropped dd off at school. Topic is irrelevant and was completely stupid. I pushed the subject (and pushed and pushed), he tried to ignore me and turned the radio up which was a red rag to a bull. I got angry and raised my voice, told him he was being entitled. He shouted back, no idea what he said, and I told him to let me get out of the car and pulled the steering wheel slightly to the left. Which was obviously stupid and potentially dangerous.
Dh responded by saying that if I did that again he'd punch me in the face.

I got out of the car and walked away. Had a tooth extracted today and he checked in to make sure I was ok. Other than that we haven't communicated. He'll be home in a minute and I don't know if I am right to be pissed off still or if I am just as much to blame.

(No history of any violence on either side previously)

OP posts:
Shoxfordian · 16/02/2023 17:10

Sounds like you both acted like dicks tbh

Spottycarousel · 16/02/2023 17:11

Well neither of you are smelling of roses in this. It sounds like you massively triggered each other. But, even with that being the case, I would be very reluctant to continue in a relationship with someone who threatened to punch me in the face, no matter what I had said or done. I couldn't come back from that.

StuckWhereIAm · 16/02/2023 17:16

You both behaved very badly, regardless of the cause of the original argument. You need to decide whether you can remain with a man who threatened to hit you. Was he just reacting in the heat of the moment or is this going to become an established pattern of behaviour?

baileys6904 · 16/02/2023 18:51

You actually grabbed the wheel, potentially harming one or both of you, yet you're upset because he threatened to harm you.

I think you're as bad as each other, in fact, you potentially worse than him.

GreyCarpet · 16/02/2023 19:00

Spottycarousel · 16/02/2023 17:11

Well neither of you are smelling of roses in this. It sounds like you massively triggered each other. But, even with that being the case, I would be very reluctant to continue in a relationship with someone who threatened to punch me in the face, no matter what I had said or done. I couldn't come back from that.

I don't know. If I were driving and someone were shouting at me and then grabbed and pulled the wheel (when I'd be held responsible, as the driver, for any accident that occurred), I'd be bloody scared and I can quite imagine how I'd say something like that to them. That's hugely dangerous and the adrenaline would kick in - it's basic survival to stop someone doing something that endangers your safety!

If a woman posted that her husband had done that, she'd be being told to LTB. And that's not a flippant comment - it's what is commented on those threads.

TifT · 16/02/2023 19:02

Both to blame and what you did with the steering wheel was terrible. Why did you feel the need to keep pushing? Are you usually like that.

That said, his threat was hideous too.

ourflagmeansdeath · 16/02/2023 19:07

You're both heavily immature to be perfectly honest. You to keep going on at the argument, him turning up the music - childish behaviour. And then you both acted violently which is wrong. So you're definitely both in the wrong, and you are right to be pissed at him as his threat was wrong, but you're wrong too. So be mature, apologise, get him to admit he was in the wrong as well and get it sorted out.

80s · 16/02/2023 19:15

I'd also be scared for my safety and lash out if someone pulled the wheel when I was driving. I could imagine slapping their hand away, for instance, even though I would not slap someone normally. But you'll know better whether his reaction was panic, or typical of him.
The bickering and winding one another up is another issue, I'd say. He was reacting to a threat of a car crash, not to the argument. But obviously the out-of-control arguing to the extent that you act like that also needs to be dealt with.

Spottycarousel · 16/02/2023 21:05

GreyCarpet · 16/02/2023 19:00

I don't know. If I were driving and someone were shouting at me and then grabbed and pulled the wheel (when I'd be held responsible, as the driver, for any accident that occurred), I'd be bloody scared and I can quite imagine how I'd say something like that to them. That's hugely dangerous and the adrenaline would kick in - it's basic survival to stop someone doing something that endangers your safety!

If a woman posted that her husband had done that, she'd be being told to LTB. And that's not a flippant comment - it's what is commented on those threads.

Show quote history

I totally get the unprecedented nature of the situation and how frightening it could be for the driver. But threatening to punch the op still makes me think that in the same situation it would be a deal breaker for me. My dp is no saint but if I grabbed the wheel he would be far more likely to shout 'what the fuck are you doing' rather than issue a threat of violence. But I guess no one really knows what words might come out of their mouths when facing that. Just reflect on it all op is all I can say.

SunflowerTed · 16/02/2023 21:38

Spottycarousel · 16/02/2023 17:11

Well neither of you are smelling of roses in this. It sounds like you massively triggered each other. But, even with that being the case, I would be very reluctant to continue in a relationship with someone who threatened to punch me in the face, no matter what I had said or done. I couldn't come back from that.

So it’s ok for her to cause a car crash and kill them both but it’s not ok for him to lose his shit and probably say something he would never do in the heat of the moment?!!!!

Spottycarousel · 16/02/2023 21:40

SunflowerTed · 16/02/2023 21:38

So it’s ok for her to cause a car crash and kill them both but it’s not ok for him to lose his shit and probably say something he would never do in the heat of the moment?!!!!

Show quote history

Of course what she did wasn't OK! That's not what I said at all. Both are clearly at fault.

Dery · 16/02/2023 21:47

Christ, OP - yes, you’re both at fault but why did you push and push, particularly when someone’s driving and needs to concentrate on the road? And grabbing the steering wheel and pulling it to the side while he’s driving was an incredibly dangerous thing to do. I think the threat to hit you has to be seen in the context of you having done something which could have caused a serious accident and possibly fatalities. I think he has as much right to be pissed off as you do.

Dery · 16/02/2023 21:56

And, OP, I speak as someone who has definitely mismanaged my anger on occasion. Now my DDs are mid to late teens, I really regret not regulating my anger better as I’m seeing my temper in them and wishing I’d set a better example in that regard. So let this be a wake-up call to you that this is something you also need to work on.

Opentooffers · 16/02/2023 23:09

I'd say your behaviour was worst tbh. You behaved completely OTT - and dangerously so - over something that you now claim was stupid!!
By your own admission you pushed and pushed the subject, whereas he, quite reasonably, chose to ignore you to focus on driving ( which is hard when someone is shouting at you). So he turned the radio up as you would not let it go till you got home safe, therefore you decide you have to immediately get out to the extent of grabbing the wheel!!!
He said that if you did that again he'd punch you in the face. I'm a pacifist, but if anyone behaved like that to me in the car I'd be tempted to use an equal threat.
You clearly have anger management issues. You saw red to the extent of being impulsive and a danger to others and have no recollection of what he shouted back at you probably because you'd lost control by then.
He's got far more right to be pissed off than you, but still had the decency to check in on you - more than you deserve, I like the sound of him.
I think quit the sulking that you have probably decided you are entitled to, and eat some humble pie on this one.
And if you do feel like doing it again, just count to 10 and don't, he might not punch you, but it would be fair to want to leave you over a repeat of it.

SunflowerTed · 16/02/2023 23:17

Opentooffers · 16/02/2023 23:09

I'd say your behaviour was worst tbh. You behaved completely OTT - and dangerously so - over something that you now claim was stupid!!
By your own admission you pushed and pushed the subject, whereas he, quite reasonably, chose to ignore you to focus on driving ( which is hard when someone is shouting at you). So he turned the radio up as you would not let it go till you got home safe, therefore you decide you have to immediately get out to the extent of grabbing the wheel!!!
He said that if you did that again he'd punch you in the face. I'm a pacifist, but if anyone behaved like that to me in the car I'd be tempted to use an equal threat.
You clearly have anger management issues. You saw red to the extent of being impulsive and a danger to others and have no recollection of what he shouted back at you probably because you'd lost control by then.
He's got far more right to be pissed off than you, but still had the decency to check in on you - more than you deserve, I like the sound of him.
I think quit the sulking that you have probably decided you are entitled to, and eat some humble pie on this one.
And if you do feel like doing it again, just count to 10 and don't, he might not punch you, but it would be fair to want to leave you over a repeat of it.

This

Tuilpmouse · 17/02/2023 07:18

In terms of bad behaviour, grabbing the steering wheel of someone driving (and actually risking serious injury and damage) is far worse than responding to such dangerous behaviour by threatening to punch someone in the face if they do that again (which isn't actually hurting anyone at all)

I appreciate the need for zero-tolerance to male violence, but to focus on that rather than the OP's far worse actions is a typical instance of the relative leniency shown on MN towards women compared to men (which is perhaps understandable given the MN demographic, by real nonetheless).

Jimboscott0115 · 17/02/2023 07:32

I'm a man with no time for anyone who hits their partner but... He specifically said "if you do that again" meaning grabbing the steering wheel and putting him, you and other car users/pedestrians in danger - if you had done it again, or attempted, I'm not sure I could blame him for doing whatever it took to stop you from being so reckless with yours and others' lives. Being angry is not an excuse.

Arguments happen but the majority of this is on you OP, you pushed and pushed the subject, called him names, shouted and then tried to what? Kill him? Ruin the car? Kill a pedestrian? I don't know but this is pretty bad and you need to learn to control your anger and aggression.

Couldyounot · 17/02/2023 07:49

Arguments are one thing. Yanking the steering wheel of a car someone else is driving is phenomenally bloody stupid. You two have got some talking to do, if you haven't already done it.

Maray1967 · 17/02/2023 08:02

Spottycarousel · 16/02/2023 21:05

I totally get the unprecedented nature of the situation and how frightening it could be for the driver. But threatening to punch the op still makes me think that in the same situation it would be a deal breaker for me. My dp is no saint but if I grabbed the wheel he would be far more likely to shout 'what the fuck are you doing' rather than issue a threat of violence. But I guess no one really knows what words might come out of their mouths when facing that. Just reflect on it all op is all I can say.

Show quote history

Yes, I think mine would shout that, not threaten to hit me. But what you did was very dangerous.

Hellzbellz25 · 17/02/2023 08:05

I'd threaten to punch you in the face aswell if you pulled my steering wheel - you would never sit in the front of my car again you'd be in the back like a child, I think you were worse than him

PrincessConstance · 17/02/2023 08:09

Arguments happen, don't sweat it. You need to chill out.

Mayorquimby2 · 17/02/2023 08:12

If we're apportioning blame, you're taking home the lions share by a considerable distance for your dangerous and abusive behaviour

LemonTT · 17/02/2023 09:46

Opentooffers · 16/02/2023 23:09

I'd say your behaviour was worst tbh. You behaved completely OTT - and dangerously so - over something that you now claim was stupid!!
By your own admission you pushed and pushed the subject, whereas he, quite reasonably, chose to ignore you to focus on driving ( which is hard when someone is shouting at you). So he turned the radio up as you would not let it go till you got home safe, therefore you decide you have to immediately get out to the extent of grabbing the wheel!!!
He said that if you did that again he'd punch you in the face. I'm a pacifist, but if anyone behaved like that to me in the car I'd be tempted to use an equal threat.
You clearly have anger management issues. You saw red to the extent of being impulsive and a danger to others and have no recollection of what he shouted back at you probably because you'd lost control by then.
He's got far more right to be pissed off than you, but still had the decency to check in on you - more than you deserve, I like the sound of him.
I think quit the sulking that you have probably decided you are entitled to, and eat some humble pie on this one.
And if you do feel like doing it again, just count to 10 and don't, he might not punch you, but it would be fair to want to leave you over a repeat of it.

I agree the OP is the instigator of this. But it is very toxic and worrying that a child is involved.

OP do you want your child to grow up and mirror your behaviour. To push for a fight, then put other in danger and not accept their own wrong doing.

Own your bad behaviour. It’s nothing to do with him. I expect other people would have reacted to you in the same way. It was a reaction to you.

ZekeZeke · 17/02/2023 11:01

100% your fault.
His were words, yours were actions. You could have killed somebody by doing what you did.

Watchkeys · 17/02/2023 11:07

I don't know if I am right to be pissed off

Who do you think makes the 'right' and 'wrong' rules about your feelings? Who is in charge of you?