should i stay or leave

[randomanon]

I have been with my partner for a number of years and we have 2 children together. There has been issues in our relationship since the start pretty much. He was very jealous and constantly accusing me of cheating on him. I stopped going out and seeing friends because of this and at times when I did go out I would have to time myself so that I could avoid an argument when I got back as if I had been out too long he would assume I had been to meet someone. The last couple of years have been significantly worse and his behavior has escalated to him being physically aggressive towards me, hurting our pets, being physically aggressive towards other people and threatening suicide if I left him. I called the police a few months ago due to him harming one of our children although the police didn't take any further action at the time. I have been under pressure to leave him from services who I fear are going to try and remove my children from me. I took out a restraining order against him under pressure and had to report this when he breached it. He is going back to court soon to be sentenced for this. He is getting help with his issues now and I do genuinely believe he wants to change but I'm unsure whether this will actually happen long term. I am afraid to leave him because of how he will react to this but if I stay I risk having my children removed. I feel ill with the stress and pressure of everything. He keeps telling me he will change and I want to believe him, there hasn't been any aggression for a couple of months now. In my head I know the right thing to do is to leave but it is so hard to actually do this once and for all. Services keep telling me that he is coercively controlling me and that I just cant see this because I am with him still. I didn't believe this at first but am starting to accept that they might be right. Is it ever possible to fix a relationship like this or do I just need to go through the awful process of leaving for good.

You’re right about the court sadly - the system fails far too many people. Breach of non-mol could result in prison but most of the time it ends up being something like a year under probation and having to do whatever they say or be brought back to court.

If you can and feel strong enough to - write down a summary of key events with dates and the impact it has had on you. Did you have to alter your behaviour or the way you went about things? Did you have to change aspects of your life?

Breaching orders is another red flag. If he had genuine problems or wanted help, he’d accept what’s happening and do whatever it took to genuinely address his issues. He’s using them as an excuse to hurt you.

Remember, you haven’t done anything wrong but what you do now is what matters the most. Please keep yourself safe and speak to whatever agencies you can. Don’t be afraid of social care. They will help you providing you choose your children.

www.dvact.org/post/do-you-know-the-8-step-timeline-in-domestic-abuse-homicides

100% leave. He is dangerous and you will all be better off without him.

A few times you say you can’t risk losing the children by staying with him. Surely the biggest worry is that he will hurt them if you stay. They should be removed from that situation if you aren’t going to do it.
Get the pets into an animal shelter and go.

I wrote down some key events and how it made me feel in the supporting statement i wrote when i applied for the non molestation order. I can try to get a copy of that from the court and add some dates into it. I stopped seeing friends, i couldnt post on social media or message anyone because he would check through all my accounts and question everything to make me think i had done something wrong. I changed jobs because he didnt want me working anywhere near any of his friends, I rarely went out on my own and when I did I ended up timing myself so that I wouldnt start an argument with him when I got home. I couldnt speak to people or make eye contact with men because he would get jealous and accuse me of having affairs. He controlled what I ate every day, where I went and who I spoke to. I put a tracker on my phone so that he could check where I was and I wouldnt have to account for my time when I got home. Anytime I challenged him he would become aggressive and so I stopped challenging him completely. It has been like this for nearly 9 years.
He has been attending a dv perpetrator program for a couple of months but the woman who runs the program told me in a meeting last week that he is controlling and manipulative of the other people in the group and she doesnt think the 26 week program will be anywhere near long enough for him. I am trying to show them that I am choosing my children over him. I have tried to cut contact with him ,I have taken out orders against him, I have contacted the police when he breached them, I have only allowed the contact with the children that they have agreed and I have asked for the police to look at reconsidering charge him for what he did to our child.I know I should have given a statement about what he did to me at that time but it felt like my life was turned upside down in the space of a few hours and I wasnt ready to do it then.

my biggest worry and the main reason that I stayed with him as long as I did was that I was worried he would hurt them if I left to try and get back at me.I thought that if I stayed that I could protect them better and if I left without having any services involved that he would be able to have unsupervised contact with them.I cant protect them if I am not with them.He didnt physically hurt either of them until the incident where I called the police. I know the logic of this is wrong but at the time I was on my own with no one to talk to and I didnt understand the seriousness of the situation whilst I was living with it every day.

My sister in law was like you , her husband is an alcoholic. He is violent and an awful father . But she kept staying with him . Said she loved him and he was going to change . Social services gave them so many chances . And her so much support and help to leave him and keep her kids.
In the end they took the kids and no amount of work she did to get them back helped. The kids are so much happier now .
They have now been adopted. And she has turned to alcohol . And is still with her husband

You say you have tried to cut contact with him.

Why are you having ANY contact with him?

He assaulted your child

@Merlinsbeard83 this is so sad, omg my heart is breaking.😢

@MrJollyLivesNextDoor because he is contacting me,I was asked to supervise his phonecalls with the children which he just used as another way to try to speak to me until I applied for the non molestation order.then he used my parents,his sister and our next door neighbours to send messages and gifts to me instead.

I would leave for any one of the following reasons:

Controlling
Jealous
Physically aggressive
An animal abuser
Emotional blackmail
Child abuse

Yours has done all of them. He won't change, he is lying, you're being a fool.

If you take back a man who harmed your child, yourself and your pets frankly you're facilitating his abuse of your child and animals.

Sorry, I hope you manage to free yourself. Never go back.

I am struggling a bit with this OP. My post is harsh, but I feel you are fooling yourself believing he can change. You are writing lengthy, seemingly intelligent posts but you are still risking your life, your children’s lives- I think from what you describe, he is capable of killing you all.

Picking up an animal and holding a knife suggests a real, intent to kill. It could be one of your children next. Do the police and SS know about the threat to kill the cat. It is one of the strongest red flags for agencies to remove children from abusive parents. If you haven’t told them I suggest you do so ASAP, as they may step up their support. Hurting an animal, or threat to hurt an animal is always taken seriously, because it is likely to be a human next.

You are subjecting your poor children to a truly shockingly abusive childhood by being in close proximity to a person behaving like this. Why are you even asking this question? I hope the answers you get spur you to leave immediately.

Your children did not choose this fucking low life as a father, you did. Now you have to put it right. Stop making excuses. You are right to worry SS will take your children, because in your head you are talking about how much he wants to change and how much better he has been. He won’t change- prison is full of men like him.

From his actions, he barely qualifies as a sentient human being.I am sorry if this seems harsh. I wouldn’t want to sit next to him on a bus, never mind consider myself in a relationship with him. Are you surprised to hear me say this? It’s possible that you are so used to your situation, you just do not realise how bloody bad it is, or how terrible the revelations you have made about your children’s lives are?

Now is when you need to ‘mum up’. Put your children’s needs first. Total non contact is the only answer. Stop thinking about him, he isn’t worth it. Only think about how to protect your children.

Stop asking fucking stupid questions on MN and get your kids away from him before you ruin their lives as well as yours. Please.

Oh OP this is truly awful and sounds terrifying. I hope The Freedom Programme will help you to see things more clearly and objectively.

From everything you have said - you can't fix this situation. No-one can fix it, not even him. It's gone too far, past the point of no return. He has done too much damage but that is not your fault.

What could be partly your fault though is what happens if you take him back. I don't say this lightly but it genuinely sounds like he has the capacity to kill all of you.

To keep your children safe from him, Social Services literally have the power to remove them from your care. You can stop that from happening and with the right agency/police/legal support you can keep them safe.

The family/friends/neighbours who are involved and telling you to take him back have absolutely no power in this situation - they have zero say in whether you will keep your children. That is between you and Social Services and you can work with them to keep your children with you, and to keep them safe.

I'd be surprised if he wasn't breaking some of the order by having these people bring you gifts and messages, but I don't know the system well enough.

I would also be surprised if they don't accept a statement even after the event. Every single thing he has threatened or actually done to you/your children/your pets should all be reported to the Police. ALL OF IT. It is all relevant context and builds the bigger picture around the danger he presents.

Please work as closely as you can with any DV agencies you have in your corner. They are experts.

Finally be kind to yourself but firm - this has gone too far, YOU are not ruining their childhood by leaving their Father. That is all on HIM. You have the power to stop this going further. Please use it wisely. You can do this.

OP - I am so incredibly sorry to hear about the seriousness of your situation and everything you and your children are going through.

I know you must feel depleted, overwhelmed and frightened. What you’ve been going through is like running a marathon every day just to stand still, in terms of the emotional and metal energy it is taking from you.

It might help to just simplify things by asking one or two basic questions and taking steps to answer them.

Forget EVERYTHING else: the house / what has happened in the past / what might happen in the future / logistics / the chances of him changing - none of it matters until you have some space to start recovering. But you need to STAY SAFE while you deal with the most essential issues.

From what I can see from your posts your questions are:

• Do I want my children to grow up with me, or do I want them to be taken into care?
• Do I want my children and I to have the opportunity to be physically and emotionally safe?

And your answers are:

• I want to be a mother to my children and keep them with me.
• I want to keep my children safe. I want to be safe.

Try to disengage from all your other thoughts and feelings right now, in an effort to make the above happen. It is going to take everything you have left.

I really understand why you haven’t wanted to risk him having unsupervised contact. That’s a terrifying thought. But it’s even more terrifying to think they might lose you too.

Step 1 is therefore to make sure you and they are safe TOGETHER.

Call Women’s Aid as soon as it is safe for you to do so. Tell them what you have told us. Tell them about the above questions and answers. Ask for their advice. You need help to stay safe in whatever action you take, and they will be able to support you in this.

Half term might be a difficult time for you to find the privacy to make that call. Remember there are safe spaces at Boots, Superdrug, Morrisons and HSBC. If you go in and ask for a safe space they will give you a place to make calls in private.

No-one here wants you to be at further risk - so please only make that call when it is safe for you to do so.

If you can, also reach out to your DV worker,
any social services contact, any police contact, and say “I need help”. Tell them the answers you’ve shared with us to those two most important questions.

Write down whatever you can (if safe to do so). Think about concrete examples: visits to doctor / hospital / vet, anything that has come up at school, any calls to police (even hang ups), the case reference for your non mol, any behaviour someone else witnessed eg. a neighbour (think about whether anyone quite random has asked if you’re ok - often that’s prompted by noticing something, so that person might be a witness).

I think reading a book called Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft will really help you with your sense of fear and self doubt. It is really compassionate and insightful, and if your partner is on a DVIP course of some kind it will help give you an insight into that too. You can download it via the kindle app (if your phone is a safe space). Try to listen to what the caseworker for his course has to say to you as well - she has a wealth of experience and no reason to lie to you.

If you have friends and family who are saying ANYTHING contrary to the professional advice you are hearing, please try to tune them out. This is a choice for YOU to make - they do not know what is happening for YOU, and they do not have the considerable knowledge and experience that professionals do have.

Please bear in mind that even friends or relatives you are no longer in touch with may well still have deep feelings for you.
If someone I used to know well contacted me to ask for help in your situation, I would give it without question - even someone I hadn’t spoken to in twenty years. Same goes for a relative stranger - a mum at school, a colleague, a neighbour… If there is someone in your life, now, or from your past, who you were close to, or who you think has picked up on your difficulties and shown compassion for you, then reach out. You are NOT alone.

Be the strongest you can for the longest you can - channel that strength into seeking help. Focus on getting those two most important things sorted.

When you are safe and have some support you will be able to make time and space to deal with anything else.

Please take the greatest care of yourself and your little ones. I will be thinking of you and rooting for you.

Stop trying to fix this struggle relationship. It’s impossible! You cannot fix a toxic mess. Get out and leave your children deserve better

Who asked you to supervise his phone calls with the children and why did you agree to it?

As soon as he changed topic on the phone why didn't you hang up the phone?

Stop facilitating this bullshit and put your children first.

I repeat what I said earlier: your thread title is should I stay or leave.
Do YOU think you should stay or leave?

You are seriously considering staying with a man who is aggressive, whose aggression has escalated and has physically assaulted your child.

What would make you decide to leave him I wonder?

Him killing one of your children? Would that be enough for you?

This is a terrifying title to this thread.

OP you are thinking too much about him- think about your children instead who are growing up thinking its normal to be hurt by their dad.

Please dont wait until you loose your children like the story shared by @Merlinsbeard83 so utterly heartbreaking.

Save them now from even more hurt before its too late. I appreciate its really hard but you must get away from him.

The children told the social worker about him swinging the cat round and throwing it across the room and how upset it made them.they asked my ex partner about this and he minimised and changed the story.They didn't ask me what happened and they put most things down as being due to his mental health rather than abuse.i told them things that have been recorded inaccuatley or that he has just completely made up but they refused to change it in there reports.the social worker asked me to supervise his phonecalls although I have contacted them again and asked for permission to stop these calls when he was arrested and they agreed to this for the time being.I haven't told the police any of this in a statement but I did complete a dash form with them where I told them all of this.i completed another dash form a couple of days ago and I think they were giving it to the safeguarding team again.He hasn't been at the house for a few weeks now and I don't want him to return.the children are safe at the moment as he isn't allowed any contact with them.i will speak to the dv worker again next week and try to get them to reopen my case and look at my statement,the other dv service I speak to is closed for half term.i feel like I have mostly managed to get away from him right now,it is trying to get him to stay away long term that is hard and where I feel under pressure to try to fix him and help him to change.i know that I can't do this.

Who's house is it?

Owned?
Rented?

Why is it difficult to get him to stay away long term?

If you are tied to the house then you need to untie yourself
If it is his house then you need to move out

All I'm hearing are excuses

He assaulted your child. Explain to me why your child's welfare is of less importance than your needs and your desire to be in a relationship with this man?

Seriously, if you cannot prioritise your children they would be better off away from both you and him.

@MrJollyLivesNextDoor The house is owned jointly by both of of us.i cannot "untie myself " from it as I need his written consent to sell it.even with the occupation order and the non molestation order I still need his permission.my childs welfare is not less important than anything,the only reason I have contacted the police and social services is to ask for help to protect my children.i am not interested in myself.i knew as soon as I called them that there was a good chance they were going to remove the children from me.i called them anyway because there safety is the only thing that matters.i haven't had any help from them,I was left to try to pick up the pieces myself and try to manage his behaviour as best I can because they accepted his excuses for his actions and put the choice for what happens next back onto me when I wasn't in the right frame of mind to be making those desicions.

Is he of the opinion that you two are still in a relationship?

Leave
Today
Put your dc first
They will not thrive being with him
His mental health is for him to resolvexwith professional help
Tell services tomorro you seeking help from them to leave
And do it

Get out and then lawyer help to force sale of house

You shpuld be interested in you
You are a person too
Your dc need one parent at least

@MrJollyLivesNextDoor I think so.i told him that we needed to be seperated from each other so that we can both work on our issues.i think he took this as a temporary thing and that if he does everything that is being asked of him that he will be allowed to come back home and be with us again.he keeps telling my mum how much he loves us and that once he gets us back he will never let us go again.she took this as a nice,romantic comment that shows he wants to change.i don't see it that way.

He's hurting you, mentally and physically. He's hurting your children mentally and physically. He's hurting your pets, mentally and physically. But you are the only one who can choose to remove everyone who's been hurt from this situation, so you MUST act. The children and the animals can't choose, so for them, as well as yourself, do the right thing and protect the vulnerable as well as yourself. You are the only one who can act, and protect the others, it's not just you who is suffering. And this definitely sounds like it's likely to escalate into something much worse. Children who witness abuse, and are subjected to animals being abused, are much more likely to carry out those behaviours in later life. Please, please, for the sake of your precious children, and the animals involved who don't have a voice, leave this man.