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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Friend has become overly religious, not sure how to deal with it

54 replies

bluelollipop99 · 11/02/2023 08:53

Trying to be as concise as possible.

I'm 29, have a four month old baby. I was brought up within the Jewish faith, although I'm largely secular now. As many may be aware, there are various different denominations of Judaism within the UK, from the ultra-orthodox, modern orthodox, reform , liberal, Masorti etc. I was brought up within the liberal denomination. .

The official position is that Reform, Liberal and Masorti Judaism are LGBT supportive/ affirming, ( including gay weddings), whereas the orthodox are not , ( similar to how Methodists, URC , Church of Scotland allow gay marriage whereas other Christian denominations would reject this).

Until recently I have never had much cause to think about this in greater depth.

I have a friend, age 29, who I have known for over a decade, ( we met at university). She is from an observant Muslim family, although when we met she was not personally religious / practicing herself. Over the past couple of years she has decided to start practicing her religion again, ( e.g praying 5x a day, eating halal, fasting during Ramadan, giving to charity etc), as well as intensly studying the religion online.

Some of this has been very positive for her, ( having known her a long time, I would agree that praying 5 X a day has had a positive effect on her mental health).

However she is now wanting to turn every conversation into either an attempt to convert me, or debate religion. It appears to be coming from a good place, but every time she sees me she tells me that as she loves me and my daughter, she wants us to convert to Islam so that we are safe after we die, ( she is worried as some teachings say Jews and Christians will be able to enter heaven but others contradict this).

It does appear to be coming from a place of genuine concern, but it is actually getting quite upsetting that every time I see her, even in passing, she tells me to consider converting as 'you are getting older now and you will be a long time dead/ I want you to be safe when you die.' She is also repeatedly saying, ' I just have a good feeling your DD will become a Muslim when older' which feels quite disrespectful to my own religious herritage.

The LGBT issue is a sore point as she is aware I am from an LGBT affirming denomination , and constantly wants to debate "how can any so called religious leader / group support this when it goes against the scriptures!" She is particularly keen to debate this point, and keeps reiterating that if either her ( currently non existent), children or my daughter entered into a gay relationship in the future she would disown them.

My daughter's baby blessing is coming up, and she is happy to come as we are people of the book. However it is clear from her messages over the past few weeks that she will be using this opportunity to challenge/ debate him re her strong disagreement r.e the denominations LGBT affirming stance, which will make things awkward for everybody.

To clarify, this is not an Islam bashing post, but advice for this specific situation. Islam and Judaism remain very close theologically, and there is a lot to be admired about the religion, ( for example, locally the mosque runs a very successful food bank which is open to those of any faith or none).

But yes, advice needed.

OP posts:
bluelollipop99 · 11/02/2023 08:56

sorry that should have read challenge/ debate the rabbi r.e liberal Judaism LGBT affirming position.

OP posts:
Wolfiefan · 11/02/2023 08:56

Why haven’t you said you are glad she is happy in her religion but you don’t wish to discuss it. She either stops or don’t see her.
Do that before the blessing. If she can’t stop then don’t have her there.

Newusernameaug · 11/02/2023 08:57

I’d make it very clear she needs to stop pressurising you with immediate effect.

GreyCarpet · 11/02/2023 08:58

Have you told her to stop?

Changingplace · 11/02/2023 08:58

This sounds very draining and irregardless of the specific religion or set of beliefs it very incredibly tiresome to have every single conversation turned around to the same topic.

Have you tried explaining to her very bluntly that you don’t want to discuss/debate religion endlessly and turn the conversation to other topics?

Aquamarine1029 · 11/02/2023 08:59

You need to tell her that this topic of conversation is now closed, and if she can't respect your wishes, the friendship needs to end. She is massively overstepping and I'm surprised you've tolerated this for so long.

tuvamoodyson · 11/02/2023 08:59

Doesn’t sound like it’s been good for her mental health at all. Personally, I’d shut that conversation down immediately…why are you listening to it?

DelilahBucket · 11/02/2023 08:59

I would back away from this friendship in the same position. She has absolutely no right to disregard your beliefs regardless of her religion and she shouldn't be trying to convert you. She should respect you and your choices and she clearly doesn't. This is more than just religion, she's bordering on cult behaviour and that isn't normal.

MrsBunnyEars · 11/02/2023 08:59

She sounds awful. Sorry.

Whether or not it’s coming from a good place she is being rude, disrespectful and probably quite boring.

I wouldn’t have her at your babies blessing, it sounds like she would spoil things.

I might have a conversation with her where you set out how her behaviour affects you and ask her to stop. Possibly also probe whether there’s something worrying in the background making her do this.

But if she doesn’t change, I think this friendship has run it’s course.

(I’m nominally Muslim though to totally irreligious, if that makes a difference!)

Changingplace · 11/02/2023 09:00

bluelollipop99 · 11/02/2023 08:56

sorry that should have read challenge/ debate the rabbi r.e liberal Judaism LGBT affirming position.

That just sounds incredibly inappropriate, your babies blessing it not the time or place for these kind of discussions and I would be telling her that directly.

winterpastasalad · 11/02/2023 09:00

You just need to make it very clear that religion is not something you want to discuss. It's very common when people become religious to want to share the "good news" and feel the need to 'save' others. You just need to be firm in shutting it down. Wrt the baby blessing and her intention to challenge the rabbi or whoever, make it VERY clear that this day is not about her. She can make an appointment with him/her for a discussion another time, but not on your baby's day.

bluelollipop99 · 11/02/2023 09:01

I have normally tried to change the subject or sort've replied "well that's not what I believe" r.e LGBT rights, but I haven't abruptly told her to stop as it seems to be coming from a good place e.g fear my daughter and I will be unsafe after death.

OP posts:
BabyStopCryin · 11/02/2023 09:01

My understanding is that it’s not ‘a thing’ to go around trying to convert people to Islam (so my Muslim relatives tell me). Definitely not supposed to nag/bully/coerce people into it (yes, I know this isn’t exactly stuck to).

You need to tell her to stop this or keep away. Otherwise you will snap one day.

MuffinTahp · 11/02/2023 09:02

"Friend, I am so happy you have found peace in your religion. It makes me so happy to see you happy! However my own religion brings me the same peace and I am content with my beliefs and how I am raising my daughter. You are a wonderful friend and I enjoy our time together but lately I feel our conversations revolve around nothing but our beliefs, our friendship stretches further than that! I would appreciate it if from now on we keep the religious chat to a minimum, especially at DDS blessing. I feel like you are trying to convert us and we are so happy with what we believe, I wouldn't try to convert you or tell you your beliefs are wrong. I would really hope from now on you would respect us enough to do the same. This comes from a place of love in the hopes we can continue to have a great friendship for years to come. "

TidyDancer · 11/02/2023 09:03

I think you need to tell her outright to stop this now. You do seem to want to continue the friendship which is adorable so I would give her a chance to pack it in but if she refuses I would start to distance yourself from her. I don't see her being a positive influence on your DD's life if she continues with this preaching.

Santasoorplooms · 11/02/2023 09:03

“Look mate, I appreciate that you’re worried about my daughter and me. Feel free to pray for us but if you want us to stay friends, please stop discussing religion with me as it is making me uncomfortable”.

MrWhippersnapper · 11/02/2023 09:04

She’s out of order and doesn’t sound well

TidyDancer · 11/02/2023 09:04

Sorry, adorable should be admirable!

LoveMAFS · 11/02/2023 09:04

If you don't show her your boundary around this subject, she'll continue to cross it.

babba2014 · 11/02/2023 09:05

I'm a Muslim who practises my faith as a way of life but if what you say is true then she is not being appropriate. She doesn't need to debate you, put pressure on you etc. Her good character by changing her ways should be what shines a light on those around her. Ultimately guidance is from Allah Almighty.
I would tell her you spoke to a female scholar who said you are acting inappropriately. She needs to let her religion shine through good character, not pressure and making every conversation about it. Just be normal.

She has no reason to talk about LGBT at your babies event. Tell her to stay home. It's not the time and the place.

bluelollipop99 · 11/02/2023 09:06

MrWhippersnapper · 11/02/2023 09:04

She’s out of order and doesn’t sound well

What may be relevant is she was diagnosed with EUPD I'm her early 20's , ( although it has always been managed well enough for her to work full time), which may affect her approach/ zeal here.

OP posts:
NotMyDayJob · 11/02/2023 09:15

It's not coming from a good place to go to your baby's blessing with the deliberate intent to debate with the Rabbi, that is beyond disrespectful. Sure if it comes up in conversation, still a bit dodgy and inappropriate, but with the deliberate intent, that's not on at all. Surely you can see this?

I'd also say with her mental health diagnosis this is not good for her, not good at all.

Wolfiefan · 11/02/2023 09:26

It’s not well managed if she’s behaving like this.

Improbablecat · 11/02/2023 09:50

I had a similar situation. We are a mixed Christian denomination family but are generally liberal in outlook. I had a close friend who was a non practising Muslim but in the run up to having an arranged marriage she became much more religious and hasn't looked back. She was awful when we asked my gay brother in law to be my daughter's godfather and made a big fuss over the christening.

I spent so long trying to be kind and listen to her, but in the end we had a very blunt conversation and I put an end to the friendship. As my daughter has got older, I just don't want that kind of influence around her. It made me sad for a long time.

Cassy92 · 11/02/2023 09:56

Judaism is very clear on its position about actively or even passively trying to convert someone to their religion though. It is not permitted.

I'd explain this to her. 'Better to be a righteous gentile than a sinning Jew' - you must know the quote? It essentially boils down to Jews being the chosen people who have had more restrictions placed upon them (600+rules to be exact) wheras non-Jews - Christians etc do not have these rules, but can still be considered righteous by G-d (Talmud Sanhedrin 105a).

Judaism is theologically close to all religions because it was the first religion, pretty much all other religions are off shots of Judaism.

As for the LGBTQ issue - can't help there.

I'd probably give her a wide birth to be honest, because her actions go so far against your own religious belief which is to not try to convert people to your religion.