Friend has become overly religious, not sure how to deal with it

[bluelollipop99]

Trying to be as concise as possible.

I'm 29, have a four month old baby. I was brought up within the Jewish faith, although I'm largely secular now. As many may be aware, there are various different denominations of Judaism within the UK, from the ultra-orthodox, modern orthodox, reform , liberal, Masorti etc. I was brought up within the liberal denomination. .

The official position is that Reform, Liberal and Masorti Judaism are LGBT supportive/ affirming, ( including gay weddings), whereas the orthodox are not , ( similar to how Methodists, URC , Church of Scotland allow gay marriage whereas other Christian denominations would reject this).

Until recently I have never had much cause to think about this in greater depth.

I have a friend, age 29, who I have known for over a decade, ( we met at university). She is from an observant Muslim family, although when we met she was not personally religious / practicing herself. Over the past couple of years she has decided to start practicing her religion again, ( e.g praying 5x a day, eating halal, fasting during Ramadan, giving to charity etc), as well as intensly studying the religion online.

Some of this has been very positive for her, ( having known her a long time, I would agree that praying 5 X a day has had a positive effect on her mental health).

However she is now wanting to turn every conversation into either an attempt to convert me, or debate religion. It appears to be coming from a good place, but every time she sees me she tells me that as she loves me and my daughter, she wants us to convert to Islam so that we are safe after we die, ( she is worried as some teachings say Jews and Christians will be able to enter heaven but others contradict this).

It does appear to be coming from a place of genuine concern, but it is actually getting quite upsetting that every time I see her, even in passing, she tells me to consider converting as 'you are getting older now and you will be a long time dead/ I want you to be safe when you die.' She is also repeatedly saying, ' I just have a good feeling your DD will become a Muslim when older' which feels quite disrespectful to my own religious herritage.

The LGBT issue is a sore point as she is aware I am from an LGBT affirming denomination , and constantly wants to debate "how can any so called religious leader / group support this when it goes against the scriptures!" She is particularly keen to debate this point, and keeps reiterating that if either her ( currently non existent), children or my daughter entered into a gay relationship in the future she would disown them.

My daughter's baby blessing is coming up, and she is happy to come as we are people of the book. However it is clear from her messages over the past few weeks that she will be using this opportunity to challenge/ debate him re her strong disagreement r.e the denominations LGBT affirming stance, which will make things awkward for everybody.

To clarify, this is not an Islam bashing post, but advice for this specific situation. Islam and Judaism remain very close theologically, and there is a lot to be admired about the religion, ( for example, locally the mosque runs a very successful food bank which is open to those of any faith or none).

But yes, advice needed.

I think you should step away from this friendship. Trying to convert you and push her beliefs on you is just not acceptable.

I had a friend with catholics beliefs and frankly her views on LGBT+ people were really an issue for me. She was very judgemental as well in general.

In the end she out of the blue stopped talking to me over something very trivial (I had to back out of running an errand for her when I got Covid) and it confirmed to me what a judgemental and rigid individual she really is.

From personal experience you must be really blunt, as it is the only language people like this respond to. And be open to the idea that you may need to let the friendship go I am sorry to say.

"Friend, I value our friendship very much but am struggling with it lately.I am glad you have re-found your religion but I am content with my beliefs and how I am raising my daughter. I find your attempts to convert me, someone who already had a religion, extremely disrespectful. I am not up for conversion and I am not interested in debating your views on LGBTQ.

I am disinviting you from my baby’s blessing because it should be a joyful occasion for us and your presence on the day with your current attitude will cause me anxiety. I suggest you take on board the distress your behaviour is causing me and change it. "

I agree with pp. You must sit her down and have a frank talk that she is being disrespectful and overstepping your boundaries.

As for her intention to debate religious differences or opinions at your baby's blessing, you need to uninvite her. You coukd tell her that she must not try to engage in debate if she cones, but she sounds very zealous so I doubt she'd abide by your request.

Sadly I doubt your friendship will survive her religious fundamentalism.

You don’t have to tiptoe around this. She’s not behaving normally and she needs to stop or else your friendship does. And I would not be having her at the blessing unless she agrees to this.

You need to change your title. Her practicing normal Islamic practices isn’t being “overly religious.” I would kindly ask her to stop discussing religion if it’s something that makes you feel uncomfortable, especially if she’s doing it constantly.

You may need to accept this friendship is over for now, @bluelollipop99.

Born again zealots of every religious stripe are impossible to reason with.

Your friends concern that you must convert to be safe in death is not coming from a good place - it’s coming from an obsessive place.

Her arrogance to think she can use your child’s naming ceremony to challenge a Rabbi in their own place of worship is shocking. This is zealotry not religious belief or practise.

As much as you are happy to accept her new found beliefs and way of life, you will never be afforded the same respect of your beliefs by zealots.

No boundaries you put in place will be respected as she now sees you as a conversion project, not a friend.

@qwertykeyboards pressuring people to convert is not normal Islamic practice, I believe. Neither is challenging leaders of other faiths in their place of worship - something which would be considering an absolute insult if carried out in a mosque.
What the friend is practising is zealotry.

She sounds unwell.

It isn't uncommon for some with mental health issues to become zealots.

Tell her bluntly you're not discussing religion with her anymore and univite her to your child's blessing so she doesn't cause a scene.

@qwertykeyboards have you read the post properly. She is not engaging in normal Islamic practices. She is mentally ill and regularly challenging op on her religion saying she’s going to hell.

Ah, the zeal of the convert / late adopter.

I had a similar issue with a friend some time ago - we both came from the same religious upbringing (Church of Scotland, which tbh I consider more of a hobby than a religion), although I would consider myself agnostic at best these days.

She got in with some kind of very fervent evangelical sect and every time we got together she'd proselytise wildly at me.

I initially tried to 'be kind' as she had also undergone some mental health struggles, until I eventually got fed up and said that if she kept on, I would remove myself from the friendship.

Didn't work. Haven't seen her since 2019, although I do still occasionally get the odd message about how she's 'praying for me', as I didn't quite have the heart to block her.

Assertiveness and firmness is the thing. I agree with PPs, either she accepts you as you and all the things that entails, or she can bog off.

Tell her you don't want to talk about religion anymore and if she insists on bringing it up anyway stop spending time with her and make sure she knows why. And don't let her coming to the blessing if she's going to use it to spread hate.

Although I could never be friends with someone who would disown their child for being gay. She is not a good person.

Im sure the rabbi would be happy to debate these points of theology - but not at your baby's blessing. I bet he is well practised at dealing with people who are a bit over enthusiastic about putting their points across.
If you'd like her there, perhaps warn the rabbi what she might be like, though of course you should talk to her and say whatever her beliefs are, this ceremony is introducing your baby to your religion, and it's not the time and place for such discussions.
As for your ongoing friendship, you have to say you are not willing to engage with this topic and if she will not stop cool it off.
I have a friend who has become a devout Christian in recent years. Every conversation is about how he has welcomed Jesus in to his life etc etc. That his life is bearable (he has become increasingly disabled) because of God and so on. I have seen his once very close friendships fall away, but he has formed new ones within his church. Friendships aren't static; they grow or fade as people move on, physically or emotionally or in interests and lifestyle. It does seem the two of you have become incompatible.

I don't see anything to suggest that's she's unwell. Just that she's being an awful bigoted zealot.

I’m from a more conservative interpretation of my religious beliefs and would occasionally speak about faith with non religious or other religious people but I absolutely wouldn’t be speaking about it at every opportunity or at their religious ceremonies. That’s incredibly disrespectful (and likely to be wildly counter productive anyway!).

I think you need to set some firm and kind boundaries.

“Friend, I’m so glad that your faith is helping you so much and I respect your beliefs. But I need you to know that it’s becoming hard to chat because you often bring up issues you know we disagree about or try to convert me. At my child’s blessing service please could you have a think about whether you feel able to come and not share your faith at that event. If you don’t feel you can, I can understand that but if you do come I need you to respect that it’s a liberal Jewish service. I hope you can understand that I want to raise my child in my faith, as I’m sure you would, yours.”

I would try a soft approach initially and gently say to her that you're really happy for her that she's found her path and what brings her peace but that you don't share those specific beliefs so please can we move forward from this topic?

You could also say to her that worrying about what happens after death is your own business and while you accept your friend is worried and it's really sweet of her it's ultimately not her concern.

If your friend really doesn't get the message then you might have to decide to end the friendship unfortunately.

Can you say something along the lines of she’s on her journey, you’re on yours, you mustn’t interfere with each other’s?

I'm a Christian, and I used to get this from my Muslim friends in years gone by. Like your friend, they genuinely meant kindly by it. On each ocasion it was raised I used to answer something along these lines:

I believe that each person experiences God in their own way, and that no one way is the correct way. I cannot believe in a God who ignores how well someone has lived and condemns them for not believing in the right "brand". If God is that perverse, I have no wish to go to heaven, whatever that is, because I won't know anyone there. If you cannot accept that then it is best we not discuss it at all.

Oddly, now, decades later - they mostly think much the same as me!

You say to her " How would YOU feel, if every time we met I tried to persuade you your belief is a huge mistake and you should give it up. "

Please don't have your baby's blessing be ruined by someone trying to convert other attendees to a whole other religion. Her zeal may come from a "good place" but she doesn't respect your right to be in your own religion. It's bad enough she inserts this into every conversation but her doing so at a religious event for your child would be completely crossing the line.

This sounds very draining and irregardless of the specific religion or set of beliefs it very incredibly tiresome to have every single conversation turned around to the same topic.

This is my brother. I love him dearly but all he really wants to discuss is his faith as a convert to Islam. He's unlikely to make much headway as my parents are practising Christians but it's so hard shifting him off the topic.

I'm genuinely glad it's brought him inner peace and a feeling of belonging but I don't agree with some of his views (particularly around women's rights). There's only so much I can tolerate without starting an argument.

If you want to remain friends with this woman, it’s time for some straight talking. You need to tell her very clearly that you will not be converting now, or at any time in the future and that if she if she wanting remain friends she needs to back right off with the proselytising.

If she tries to bring it up again, you need to shut her down firmly and immediately and tell her bluntly to respect the boundaries you have put in place. If she isn’t prepared to do that, the friendship has run its course.
Good luck.

I think you should cut her off u til she learns to be more respectful of your faith. It's rude , hurtful and just not nice. Uninvite her from the christening too, you don't need a wonderful day to be wrecked by her weird behaviour.

My Dad is an Orthodox Christian and has Bipolar. When he is particularly unwell, his zeal is obvious. We can predict the onset of psychosis with a sudden upturn in his proselytism. Ordinarily, religion looks like it's good for him but kindly, I think it provides boundary, structure and meaning when his own brain can't.

I am raising a gay DD and it is extremely difficult because he firmly believes she's sinning and won't go to heaven. He finds it distressing. We find it distressing. 97% of the time, it isn't mentioned.

I can't give you answers but I can sympathise. It is possible to put in boundaries but it is not easy.

Glad your friend is happy and your happy for her. She probably doesn't even realise how enthusiastic she is so just have a gentle word 🙂