The end of the road...

[Youabsoluteblinder]

I've name changed as post could be outing.

I've been with my DH for 18 years (married for 12 years). We have 2 DC and I love him dearly but I just don't think / feel I can make him happy anymore (yes, I acknowledge it's not really my responsibility to make him happy). This is going to be a long post so bear with me...

We've had our ups and downs, like any other relationships, but there’s a couple of issues / situations that we keep returning to...

1. DH says that I rarely listen to him, never ask him how he's feeling or thank him for helping around the house.

Now I admit that I can be forgetful and may have zoned out of a conversation but for many years now I've made sure I ask him how he is and always try to remember to thank him for doing the housework or keeping an eye on the kids etc, as I know that he has brought this up in the past. Yet I can't help but feel that he's annoyed with me but won't tell me why.

2. I'm not as affectionate as I used to be, we rarely have sex and if we do then it's because DH has initiated it.

This is true. My sex drive has gone down (probably a mixture of my anti-depressants and also being peri-menopausal). I know that I should make more of an effort but most of the time I can't be arsed!

3. I don't take care of my health / body and I should make more of an effort to lose weight so that I can be around for the kids as long as possible.

Yes, I do need to get my arse in gear with this but so does my DH as we're both overweight. I think we both still have quite a few years ahead of us but he's convinced we won't make it to 50 (we're both 42!).

3. I seem to care more about my career than my DH and DCs.

I've always been ambitious and DH knows this (he said it was one of the things that attracted me to him when we met at uni) so I find it annoying that he chimes up with this phrase every so often. Things came to a head 18 months ago when I got a promotion Secondment within days of his job being disbanded and him subsequently being moved to a different team. My Secondment was time intensive (especially as I was studying a apprenticeship diploma through work as well) and I had told him that my new role would involve longer hours and he said he was fine with it. A few months in, it was clear that DH wasn't on board. I don't think his new job situation helped as he was incredibly unhappy and ended up going on sick leave for 6 months due to anxiety and depression. When he returned to work, I ended up securing a permanent promotion (my Secondment was ending so I needed to find another job). He was happy for me but I could tell he was a bit resentful that I'm definitely the main breadwinner (over the years, that role has switched between us). He, on the other hand, still hates his job but won't consider leaving as he doesn't know what to do. He's not been successful at getting an internal role, despite having several interviews.

I don't know what to do, as I feel as though I can't really communicate with him anymore. I don't open up as much, in fear that he will think i'm being selfish for talking about myself and not thinking about him.

He has said that I should want to 'change' if I really love him but I'm not 100% sure how he wants me to change and, more importantly, I'm not sure I want to change?

I really don't know what to do!

If you managed to read this until the end then thank you.

@LadyGardenersQuestionTime - I too have found solo counselling really helpful, hence why I've been trying to get my DH to arrange some sessions but he won't. I've suggested couples therapy but he doesn't want to do that, as he thinks we should be able to discuss things with each other without the need of a counsellor. I even suggested 'marriage encounter' (Catholic marriage counselling services) but he's not interested.

I don't want to end the marriage but I don't know what else to do.

It sounds like you've outgrown him while he's stayed the same but it's easier to put the blame in you rather than makes changes to himself.

Sounds like he is the one who needs to change. If he does not like his job, he should either prioritise getting one which suits him better or accept that work is something he does out of necessity rather than for fun.

Lack of sex can of course be an issue in a relationship, but tbh it sounds like he's the one that's miserable but he's putting the blame on you. He needs counselling and to sort himself out. If he won't and he's making your life / home environment miserable, then yes, I think it is the end.

@CleaningOutMyCloset - Sometimes he thanks me, sometimes he doesn't (or forgets like i do). Yes he's affectionate and does like cuddles etc. He's better at looking after himself in respect of eating his 5 a day but he still likes a drink (as do I) and neither of us do enough exercise.

I literally received this message from my DH a few moments ago...

"I am very very tired, which doesn't help my mood. Basically I am feeling depressed because I am feeling lonely and not supported or listened to or respected. I feel like I'm being treated like a maid, expected to do all the cooking and cleaning and dealing with house stuff and keeping everyone happy.

I don't like having to always ask you to do jobs around the house because I feel you resent me for asking but I know if I don't then it won't get done and I don't want to have to just do it all.

I also don't want to have to ask for help personally, I want you to know that I'm not happy and run to help me and make me feel better, not just let me get worse for ages. I want more help at home.

I want you to get better and look after yourself and tell me what's going on without me having to ask for updates all the time.

I need more intimacy.

And I also don't want to have this conversation again in another 3 months because nothing changed.

I of course love you I just needed to get it off my chest."

I'm being a shit wife aren't I?

Does be thank you for doing the housework and childcare?
Both these things need to be shared equally between you both.
Why should he merit a thank you for looking after his own DC?
Am I missing something here?
My husband and I share all the household chores, and when the children were young, we also shared the childcare.
Your husband sounds really petulant and childish. You sound like you agree with some of his nonsense. Stand up for yourself more.
Maybe some counseling would help, as you want the relationship to be on a more even footing.
You seem to have got to a point where you're agreeing with your husband's negative views on you, which is unfortunate.

Trying to be super impartial here but to me it sounds like you both have your issues and you could both do more to make the relationship happier.
However it does sound like you have and are taking steps - you’ve had counselling, you arrange time alone, you consciously try to give him the thanks he needs, so he can feel appreciated. You’ve suggested he have counselling and you’ve suggested marriage counselling in two different approaches…. None of which he wants to do.

he thinks YOU should be solving both his and the marriage problems but that’s just not possible.

YOU can only work on yourself and 50% of the marriage. If he is not willing (or able) to work on himself and his 50% of the marriage then there is no answer to the problem.

He is placing all of the blame onto you because it allows him to feel superior and allows him to ignore his own failings, I imagine a lot of this is triggered by your success and his own career struggles.

If he cannot meet you half way by agreeing to relationship counselling then I’d be ready to end the marriage. Of course you will be told you are to blame for that - but you are being told that now anyway. So at least you’d be out of a miserable environment and able to move on with your life without being told that you’re basically a shit partner / person every day.

Maybe he's at the end of his rope and crying put for help in salvaging the relationship. Maybe you're really difficult to live with. Or perhaps it's totally the other way round. It's really hard to tell here. His text would get on my last nerve though. It's very self pitying and winey (whiney?). It seems you're both stuck though and not moving in a direction to resolve things.

He doesn't seem to be doing much to change himself, and expecting all the change to come from you, like it's your job to make him happy?

It really isn't. It's a him problem, not a you one

This. And he won’t go to counselling, and won’t take antidepressants as they affect his ability to have a wank…! Wow. Do you actually want to save this relationship op? If so, a serious talk is in order. However, it might be time to call it quits - you’d be happier, I bet you.

Him complaining that ‘you’re not listening’ just sounds like he’s saying you’re not agreeing with me’.
And your comment about you’ll never be enough? No, you never will be enough no matter what you do. As others have said, he wants you to put all the effort into making things to his liking but he’s not prepared to put in any work.

Sometimes relationships run their course and this sounds like one of them.

Not taking antidepressants because of the effect on his walking activities is awful, OP.
He was given treatment yet he failed to take it.
I'm not sure I could stay with someone like this. It's all "me, me, me" and your feelings have been pushed to the side.

@Eleganz she says he does 65% of the housework

It seems to me that he's blaming you for everything and is expecting just you to change, instead of recognising that both of you need to compromise and meet in the middle.
He refuses counselling, refuses antidepressants and wants you to run to him to make him feel better?
His last text would have me raging at him!

Well with the updates, I can see that you are trying and he is not prepared to meet you half way. I would give him one last chance to come to couple's counselling with you. Say it is very important in order to keep you two together. You need somewhere to talk, guided by someone impartial. If he still won't agree to this, then I would tell him you have to separate.

This resonated with me, my husband was always anxious and worried about his job, and our financial situation, but wouldn't apply for other jobs, was depressed but wouldn't see the doctor or make any effort to help himself. I supported him emotionally as much as I could, increased to full-time work as soon as the children were old enough (this was 30/40 years ago so nursery provision was not universal) I did well in my job and was promoted, this made things worse, as although my salary was not as much as his, I was enjoying my job and was appreciated, he was jealous. The one thing he did to improve his life, after years of misery, was to have an affair and gaslight me into thinking I was losing my mind, for 4 years, in order to hide the fact. It isn't you who needs to change.
Get out of this marriage before you lose your confidence and self respect. I must say although I survived and have a happy stable life, my children were damaged by it all and I wish I had split much sooner.

Also I didn't forget to thank him for his help, as he never gave me any! But that is just me being bitter😂

No you ARENT being a shit wife. This reasonated with me as it seems to be a similar scenario to the one my husband and I went through about 10 years ago. We ultimately decided to end our marriage as neither of us were happy and neither of us wanted to put the effort into finding out what was wrong and resolving it. We ended the marriage before one/both of us had an affair or became bitter and had an amicable divorce. He is now very happily remarried.

however, the issues you and your H are facing do sound very similar. My only advice would be to ask him specifically what he needs you to do. Make him specify the 'help' he needs around the house. Make him say exactly what 'more intimacy' means to him - I bet anything its more sex - nothing to do with intimacy which to me means cuddles, hugs, kissing and everything except sex! What does he mean by 'you get better' - what is his definition of this!

Don't take on the guilt of his inadequacies - he's obviously feeling affronted that you are the breadwinner and have achieved promotions etc when he hasn't. But that isn't your problem! You are both adults.

Well I just spoke to DH and I don't know what to do next.

He said that he just wants me to look after myself properly (be more healthy and get on HRT if that will make things better). He then said that he also wants me to help out more around the house.

I made the suggestion of counselling and again he dismissed it saying that he doesn't need it, even though he acknowledges that he's depressed, because he knows what's causing the depression (work and me not doing what he's asked above). He's trying to sort out a prescription for testosterone for the male menopause but he did suggest that maybe I should consider counselling. Maybe I should.

I did ask him if we should carry on, as we go through this every few months and I clearly can't/won't change (clearly I'm a lazy mutha) and he said that I shouldn't think of separation / divorce as the answer.

I honestly don't know what to do next.

@blobby10 - he said that he wants me to commit to doing a couple of things (like the laundry and cooking) and stick to it, rather than letting it slide so he feels the need to pick things up.

He also said that he wants me to initiate affectionate beit cuddles and kisses, it doesn't need to be full blown sex.

By 'you getting better' he means me not eating so unhealthy food, cutting down on alcohol and sorting out prescriptions & treatments to help with my peri-menopause. I do need to do this, so he's not wrong there.

@blobby10 - he said that he wants me to commit to doing a couple of things (like the laundry and cooking) and stick to it, rather than letting it slide so he feels the need to pick things up.

He also said that he wants me to initiate affectionate beit cuddles and kisses, it doesn't need to be full blown sex.

By 'you getting better' he means me not eating so unhealthy food, cutting down on alcohol and sorting out prescriptions & treatments to help with my peri-menopause. I do need to do this, so he's not wrong there.

And how do you feel about those 'requirements'?

From an outsiders perspective it seems that committing to the laundry (for example) may be reasonable. if the roles were reversed, I'm sure lots of people on these forums would recommend it! However, what about when you are away with work? Or ill? Or looking after a sick child? Would he be reasonable in those circumstances and do 'your job(s)'.

The initiating affection is a difficult one- I know that I often avoided physical affection with my H because I def didn't want sex and knew he would see a cuddle/kissing as a forerunner for sex or groping or a blow job! Or he would always want a cuddle to go on for much longer than I did . I think your H needs to play a bigger part in this whether its putting effort into making you want to be near him or making sure the effort to initiate affection is equal.

As far as peri-menopause goes, again, how do YOU feel about it? Do you want to take tablets ? Are you definitely in peri or is it just the grind of being the breadwinner and a mum and a wife pulling you down? Don't let peri divert you if it isn't the reason for your symptoms.

I'm so sorry if this comes across as preaching ! But I remember so clearly feeling like I was the one inthe wrong but I wasn't. It was two way. Would hate you to be 'blamed' when it isn't your fault! xx

From an outsiders perspective it seems that committing to the laundry (for example) may be reasonable. if the roles were reversed, I'm sure lots of people on these forums would recommend it! However, what about when you are away with work? Or ill? Or looking after a sick child? Would he be reasonable in those circumstances and do 'your job(s)'.

Tbf, I've been a single parent and worked full time for 10 years. That's no excuse for letting the laundry/cleaning the bathroom slip to the extent it isnt done and requores someone else to step in. Those things just need to be done. It's fine and necessary to cut corners sometimes and with somethings but if the housework is already being split with him doing more, I'm not sure how fair it is to expect him to do more. I also don't think suggesting she pick a couple of things and then stick to those is a huge ask.

If I'm honest.

OP, it's clear your priorities are different form his.

Do you listen to him OP or are you an interrupter?

You say you zone out, so does he mean that he tells you what is wrong and you don’t do anything about it?

Do you want to improve your marriage or not? You sound like you have ‘checked out’ when you say ‘more importantly, I’m not sure I want to change’.

It sounds like he’s not wrong and if you were a man every one would be having a go at you. He does 65% of the house work and he gets little affection, time or attention from you. He’s struggling with his career, is depressed and feels unsupported. He thinks you are living unhealthily and worries about it. Your excuse is that you are the breadwinner. Reverse that and it’s a very familiar problem.

You need to be a team that has each other’s backs. If you don’t love him, it’s time to leave (although you will then be doing 100% of the domestic labour and financially worse off).

Work out what you really want and then talk to him and take your turns listening to each other without interrupting. Try ‘role playing’ where you act as if you were him and say what you think he is feeling and vice versa. If you want to make the marriage work, you need to find a solution that works for the ‘team’, not just what works for him or works for you.