*Trigger warning re child abuse*Mum in denial - please help

[Onwardsandupwardsplease]

Hello

Please do not read the following if it triggers you re child abuse. I need to get this off my chest and this is long, sorry.

A couple of years ago my older sister’s 2 girls (4&7) were taken from her by Social Services and placed with my mum due to my sister having drug (heroin) and alcohol issues, unsuitable relationships with dangerous men and neglecting the children’s’ needs, emotionally. At the time it was horrendous and I, my mum and two younger sisters could not understand what was going on and why my older sister was behaving so erratically. We all went no contact with her and focused on helping mum bring the girls up and left my older sister to her unsuitable/unstable lifestyle. My dad left when I was younger and has had no contact with us since.

Fast forward to the last couple of months and I have been looking back into my childhood and uncovered many memories that I believe I have blocked out due to them being so traumatic and which explains certain behaviours I have had-anxiety, depression, been obsessive, self-harmed, self-hatred, people pleased, no boundaries, emotional eater, no self-care, scared of everything and always fearing the worst. I have memories of my dad sexually abusing me and my sisters, violence between mum and dad, alcoholism and neglect. I remember being made to drink a lot of alcohol at the age of 5-7 on a Sunday lunchtime and then go for for a sleep in the afternoon when my dad would visit me in my bed.

I recently got back in touch with my older sister and we reconnected over the shared, traumatic, memories and it felt good to feel like my memories were validated and that I was not going mad. She was receiving therapy and was off the heroin, got a good job and working on herself in the hope she would eventually get her children back.

I tried to tell my mum and younger sisters that finally there was a reason behind older sister’s behaviour and it fell on deaf ears. They do not believe a word of it and think my sister has poisoned me against mum. I don’t know what to do anymore. My mum said that my dad would never have done that and she would never have allowed it and my sister is delusional and I am falling for it. I feel like I never want to see or speak to my mum again. Would she have known about it? Surely she would have an idea. Why isn’t she acknowledging it now and saying sorry she didn’t protect me? I have so many questions that I feel I will never know the answers to. Has anyone any advice on how to deal with this, please? I have tried therapy but just cannot get on with it at all, I struggle to sit still and pour my heart out to a stranger. Is it me? I don’t know how to move forward. Please help, thank you.

Initial thoughts are that your dm was aware. And she is raising her dgc as a chance to be a better dm this time.
*I am not an expert though have some indirect experience of csa...

You poor thing. What you experienced was absolutely horrific. At least you’ve built bridges with your sister now, if nothing else. 💐💐💐

@Eastereggsboxedupready thank you so much for responding - I am really struggling to understand how she could have known and done nothing? Do you think this is why she is denying it? Is this because she was in a toxic relationship with my dad? He was horrible but even now she won’t admit it. I have 3 children of my own and cannot even begin to comprehend allowing or knowing about anything like that happening to them. I just cannot understand any of it. I am driving myself mad.

@BrutusMcDogface Thank you so much, that made me cry. Someone who doesn’t know me acknowledging that my situation was horrific means so much. You are right, at least I have got my older sister back. Although I am losing my mum and my younger two sisters at the same time and I feel helpless, I feel like I am rewriting my whole life and finding out who I am.

I believe you @BrutusMcDogface and I'm so pleased that you've been able to reconnect with your sister and validate each other's experiences.

Your mum was married to a disgusting abuser who was either so manipulative he convinced her he wouldn't hurt you and your sister, or so manipulative he convinced her that staying with him was priority over keeping you girls safe. Either way, you weren't put first when you should have been. Please make sure you put yourself first now.

And you aren't driving yourself mad, you're having an absolutely natural and logical reaction to the realisation you were abused by a parent and that your other parent likely knew. It would be more worrying if you weren't having this response.

I'm so sorry you've had to go through this. You sound like a lovely mum and what a gift to your kids that their mum has broken this cycle

And just for clarity, none of that post was meant to absolve your mum of her responsibility to keep you safe, I just realised it might have sounded like she doesn't have accountability for this situation when of course does

@monsteramunch Thank you so much for your reply, again it made me cry. I think for people who don’t know me to just get it, and understand, means so much and I have been second guessing myself for the last few months, thinking I may be imagining it all. I feel like I have been holding my breath for years and only now am I fully breathing and realising and unravelling my whole life. Thank you for believing me, that means so much and I think not being believed is worse than the abuse itself. Thank you.

You poor thing and your poor sister.

I remember years ago a friend finding the courage to tell her mother that a trusted family friend had abused her as a child. Her mother didn't believe her. Or, more likely, chose to pretend not to believe her because the alternative would have meant she would bear some responsibility for letting it happen.

It's an appalling cruelty to inflict on someone who has already suffered so much. But I don't think you're alone.

Oh my lovely this is a lot to deal with. May I highly recommend getting yourself some proper therapy?

@Righthandcider Thank you so much, I am in tears again. I am feeling so emotional over these responses but to have people believe me and respond is overwhelming. I was never allowed to show any emotion when I was growing up and I feel it is all coming out now. I feel more positive that I am not the one with the problem, it is my mum who is trying to pretend that everything is/was fine and normal when it really wasn’t. Thank you.

Couldnt read and run, I am so sorry this happened to you. DS is 5 and imagining someone giving him alcohol at lunch time so he'll sleep is heartbreaking. I feel for your 5 yr old self. You and your sister keep being strong. Your mum can deny all she wants but deep down I am sure she knows. Its cruel to not believe your child when they reveal their traumas.

Keep sharing, talking dont bottle it up x

@Grimchmas Thank you so much for your reply, I have really tried hard to get on with therapy but it is so unbelievably out of my comfort zone, I really really struggled with it. I cannot sit still and open up, it is alien to me but thinking about it, it is because I was always told not to show any emotion and just get on with things. Thank you.

I’m so sorry you went through this. And your poor sister too.

I was abused by a family member and although my parents didn’t know, I think my dad had suspicions.

I am not excusing your mum in any way, but I think that it seems incomprehensible to some people that the person they love could be capable of such awful acts. I think that makes them gaslight themselves.

it may have been that your dad hid it from your mum. It’s possible she had no idea.

but it’s more likely that she suspected, but was too scared to do anything.

you know what happened to you. So does your sister. You know you had these memories return before speaking to your sister.

I grew up in an abusive household. My mother was abused by him physically and emotionally too. She sees herself as the only victim of the abuse. Myself and my sister get no acknowledgment or validation of what happened to us from her. I am grateful to have my sister. Having her validate my experience has been vital to me and she tells me she finds it therapeutic to have me do same for her.
If your mother is anything like mine then she will never be capable of giving you the closure you need. She would have to admit that she failed you not only to you but to herself.
You never fully get over childhood trauma, but you can learn to live with it.

@FrostBeDonePls Thank you so much for your reply. It really is heartbreaking, I look at my children and would die before I let them come to any harm. You are right when you say it is cruel not to believe your child when they reveal trauma, that is the one thing I think that has upset me the most. I felt physically ill when I was telling my mum and not being believed hurt so much more than I ever could imagine. Thank you.

@Timeforanewname23 Thank you so much for your reply. I am so sorry you have experienced abuse too 💐 Thank you so much, for saying that, it means a lot to have my feelings acknowledged. I do think my mum was scared of him, there was so much violence, we were always hiding and scared. I am always scared in life and I’ve never known why until now. I have a wonderful husband and children but have still always been scared of something. Thank you.

This is awful, I’m sorry you went through this. My sister is also a drug addict, for many years my mum made out as if she was mad, just got involved with a bad crowd etc etc. However, I know something bad happened to my sister.

My mum, seems to convince herself and others (my brothers and me until I was about 30) that she was a great mother and we were well brought up. As I’ve got older though I’ve realised this was not the case. We were emotionally neglected and my mum had many boyfriends. I was never sexually abused but I believe my sister was, in fact having worked with addicts for many years, most of them have been. I actually think I possibly wasn’t abused because I was a loud and outspoken child, which I have since learnt that abusers avoid. My sister is still an addict, and I believe probably too far gone to help now.

I just wanted to let you hear and sort of similar story. It sounds like your mum probably did know what your dad was doing. Although as I said I wasn’t abused, I had an inappropriate friendship with a 27 year old man when I was 15, it actually wasn’t in anyway sexual but inappropriate nonetheless, my mum actively encouraged this friendship and let me hang around with him (I think mainly because he was quite wealthy) Your mum probably kept quiet for a easy life. I’m really happy you have reconnected with your sister.

I'm so sorry for you and your sister, OP. I hope you manage to come out of this in a better place. Sometimes this means cutting off relationships with family members who are in denial and/or have been groomed.

I would also explore if you can find a therapist who might do walking therapy for example, ie if you're struggling to stay still during sessions, sometimes being outdoors and on the move is an option. That's of course if you think this may be right for you. Sending lots of strenght and good thoughts.

@Crunchingleaf Thank you so much for your reply. I am so sorry you have experienced abuse 💐 Everything you say I can completely relate to. I feel this strong bond with my sister that I didn’t have before, a shared experience of horrific memories. Do you still speak to your mum? I am in turmoil thinking about whether I should try and carry on a relationship with her. Thank you.

What a heartbreaking post. I am so sorry. I won't go into my relationship with my Mum as I don't think it's relevant other than to say, she was physically hurt by her Dad (as was her older sister) and, to her dying day, her Mum (my grandma) seemed entirely unable to believe or admit it ever happened. I have no idea whether we are talking denial or some mental trauma that blanked out the memory, but she entirely wouldn't/couldn't countenance it had happened.

I really hope your sisters stays well and she and you are able to continue to rebuild your relationship and that between her and her children.

My dad did the same to me and my mum didn't know anything as he did it when she went out to volunteer with a mental health organisation. The irony...

I told her and she believed me but she didn't know. I was good at keeping secrets. It's destroyed a lot of my life but after 2 years weekly therapy I am slowly feeling a bit more able to deal with life.

Having your mum not believe you is like a double whammy. I am not making excuses for her as it's unforgiveable but I wonder if she just can't deal with the trauma herself? But like you I can't possibly imagine not believing my DC if they told me something like that bid do everything in my power to sort it out.

Hope you manage to forward in some way - I feel for you deeply

@Beansontoast45 Oh my gosh I could have written this post word for word. I feel like my mum has convinced us that we had this wonderful childhood that I am am only just realising is as far from the truth as it could be. I am sorry you were neglected too 💐 There are so many of us around when you talk about it. My mum was the same and did nothing to prevent me meeting up with boyfriends who were 23/24etc when I was just 13yrs old. I was desperate for her to just say no but she would actively drive me to meet them. I was so out of my comfort zone and I can never ever imagine facilitating any of my children doing that. I was a mess of a teenager and really struggled. I do not know how I managed to meet such a wonderful man and have a wonderful family when it feels like the odds were stacked against me. I am so sorry you have experienced the same. All we can do is break the mould and change the pattern. Thank you.

I'm sorry to raise this, OP, but someone has to.

Do you believe your mum is capable of protecting her DGC now? Is there anyone dangerous in her life?

I ask because it affects what you do now. If you stop making waves and stay in touch with her, you can protect the DC somewhat.
If you seek therapy and disclose that the DC are living with a woman who didn't protect her own DC, there may be repercussions.

I'm so sorry for what you have been through, and that your life is still so complicated.

Myself and my sister still speak to our mother. We have a brother with an intellectual disability and so would lose a relationship with him by cutting her off.
Do you think you might need to maintain contact for sake of your sisters children. If you cut contact with your mother does that mean you aren’t there for them if they ever need you.
I hope this thread can help you OP because you deserve to be believed.

She knows. If she admits it out loud she is admitting fault.
Don't expect her to.
Your experiences are real.
You know that.
Don't let her gaslight you about them. She doesn't get to deny your memories so she looks better.
If course your DS is an addict, her memory would be even clearer than yours as the oldest.
And she's been gaslit and made out to be the problem. Awful.
I would be very firm with DM.
I was abused and you know it.
Don't lie Mum.
I'm sorry for what happened to you

This is what I was wondering too.

I don’t know at all the English system though.

It could be hard to prove I would imagine, given you’re only two sisters against the rest.

Sorry, I have no answer to this, sending you lots of hugs