*Trigger warning re child abuse*Mum in denial - please help

[Onwardsandupwardsplease]

Hello

Please do not read the following if it triggers you re child abuse. I need to get this off my chest and this is long, sorry.

A couple of years ago my older sister’s 2 girls (4&7) were taken from her by Social Services and placed with my mum due to my sister having drug (heroin) and alcohol issues, unsuitable relationships with dangerous men and neglecting the children’s’ needs, emotionally. At the time it was horrendous and I, my mum and two younger sisters could not understand what was going on and why my older sister was behaving so erratically. We all went no contact with her and focused on helping mum bring the girls up and left my older sister to her unsuitable/unstable lifestyle. My dad left when I was younger and has had no contact with us since.

Fast forward to the last couple of months and I have been looking back into my childhood and uncovered many memories that I believe I have blocked out due to them being so traumatic and which explains certain behaviours I have had-anxiety, depression, been obsessive, self-harmed, self-hatred, people pleased, no boundaries, emotional eater, no self-care, scared of everything and always fearing the worst. I have memories of my dad sexually abusing me and my sisters, violence between mum and dad, alcoholism and neglect. I remember being made to drink a lot of alcohol at the age of 5-7 on a Sunday lunchtime and then go for for a sleep in the afternoon when my dad would visit me in my bed.

I recently got back in touch with my older sister and we reconnected over the shared, traumatic, memories and it felt good to feel like my memories were validated and that I was not going mad. She was receiving therapy and was off the heroin, got a good job and working on herself in the hope she would eventually get her children back.

I tried to tell my mum and younger sisters that finally there was a reason behind older sister’s behaviour and it fell on deaf ears. They do not believe a word of it and think my sister has poisoned me against mum. I don’t know what to do anymore. My mum said that my dad would never have done that and she would never have allowed it and my sister is delusional and I am falling for it. I feel like I never want to see or speak to my mum again. Would she have known about it? Surely she would have an idea. Why isn’t she acknowledging it now and saying sorry she didn’t protect me? I have so many questions that I feel I will never know the answers to. Has anyone any advice on how to deal with this, please? I have tried therapy but just cannot get on with it at all, I struggle to sit still and pour my heart out to a stranger. Is it me? I don’t know how to move forward. Please help, thank you.

Do definitely keep in touch with your older sister, involve yourself in any way as possible, maybe even let her around your kids when you feel comfortable of course, so that you can testify on her behalf when she tries to get her little ones back

You poor thing.

I think the main thing right now is to get some therapy so you can work through all this. It’s going to be tough to manage a relationship with your mum (if you want to maintain contact with your nieces) but a therapist can also explore that with you.

Do you think there is anyone around your mum now who could harm your DNs? If so you need to let social services know.

Just another thought also : what is the age gap between you all ? Is is possible that it was only you two older ones ?
Did your parents divorce (sorry if I missed that part).
I’m just wondering if your younger ones just escaped it.
I have a 7y age gap with my brother, I was taken into care, he wasn’t, so we have completely different experiences (incidentally don’t get along in the slightest, even though I haven’t told him the worst). Things were different for him because my dad joined my mum back when he was born (and my situation), he couldn’t stand the sight of her, but he felt obligated to.

Should mentioned we were legally tied to the laws of my original country (very complicated), and as there was no proof (yet?) for my brother, my dad came when he was a couple of months old, mums always get custody (complicated).
Long story after that, he tried I guess, but I was put back when my grandparents died at 15, left to take care of mum and brother, and she completely aleniated him, kept telling me it was his fault for leaving me alone with him (never acknowledging the facts, just saying he had ruined her life).
Anyway, it took years but I’ve reconciled somewhat with my dad now. I got severe mental health breakdown, so I’m 32 and in my final year of (very long albeit) studies). ; for years she told my brother to convince him .I was lazy and would never change… when he realized a couple of years ago, since then honestly I already have loans but couldn’t have managed without him.

Shes never changed, and my brother I spent all those years raising (thus starting uni late at 22 is her photocopy). Just saying this so I hope you feel less alone in the lack of recognition… and also you need to prepare yourself that she may never change😘

It was also S.A. But obv easier to prove in a child. I’m a bit concerned about you regarding this, hopefully other posters will have advice, or you could call one of those anonymous private helplines. Even them though, if the kids are still with your mum, it’s probable they’d have to break confidentiality.
To be bluntly honest, it’s likely everyone would (I’ve since volunteered with kids in care for a decade, moved up to senior supervisory roles (still volunteer), I didn’t have a long list of rules for the teens helping that I supervised ( we worked with the smaller kids), but one non négociable one was if any suspicion at all you tell me ( and I’ll protect your anonymity and deal with it myself)

Hopefully other posters will have better advice, I was in England at the time of going into care but haven’t been back since barely 2y ago

Its so hard, sending you hugs😘😘😘

So sorry to hear this and for what it's worth I believe you.

Just thought I would mention that it is highly likely that you would have dissociated during the abuse which is a way for a child to survive when they can't comprehend something so horrific (which your father 'visiting' you would be) especially being drugged with alcohol or whatever else would have added to this.

That would explain why you are only recently remembering. Often the memories only bleed through when you feel safe enough to acknowledge them - which being with a loving husband you are.

I'm not an expert at all by the way but it is something I've done a lot of research into.

So glad to hear you have reconnected with your sister and she must be so relieved too to have you acknowledge her experiences.

Wishing you and your siblings all the best. You were, unfortunately, failed by both of your parents. Who wouldn't notice their 5 year old being plyed with alcohol?

Be kind to yourself 💐

I'm so sorry this happened to you both ❤️

I take it your Mum still has custody (or whatever the correct word is) of your sister's kids?

Is she single now?
Does she have any partner who lives with her or visits?

Even if not, she was clearly completely incapable of safeguarding you against older men when you were underage (in fact she facilitated the contact) so I would worry about her safe guarding of your sister's kids ongoing.

(Fwiw I would imagine she facilitated you meeting and presumably having sexual contact with those men as a young teen because she had your abuse in the back of her mind and may have thought that if you ever opened up about it & went to the authorities about it, she could say that you were no longer a virgin at such a young age because you'd been having relationships & sex from a young age (and we're some kind of wild child) rather than that you'd been abused by a family man. Such behaviour would also be levelled against you as evidence of your "character" if you made any allegations.

Your Mum is not fit or safe to have your sister's kids. Something needs to be done about that. I think yourself and your sister need to go to social services/the police/relevant agencies and make your experiences clear, and subsequent concegbs about kids esp girls being resident with your Mum. Your younger sisters may simply be too young to remember what happened.

Their ages at the time would be taken into consideration.

It would also be useful to trace your father, if at all possible, and see if (presuming he's alive) he had been accused of prosecuted for sex offences - since such behaviour is rarely isolated. That might also be a prop, as such, of your case.

I think your Mum knew, it would be impossible not to .... Unless she was comatose regularly herself through drunk or drugs (?) Even then .....

*rather than that you'd been abused by a family member (your father being the obvious male family member with most access) .... Many "awkward" questions would have been raised re. her role in that; that's why I think she wanted you set up as a girl who was sexually active from a young age.

In terns if counselling, I'm not sure who is best to recommend. Perhaps you need to click with the right counsellor, though of course it's hard for you to overcome your conditioning.

In terms of the legal side ... I'm wondering if "Rights of Women" could help you.

I'd imagine your mother will deny, deny, deny - and use her influence over others to do so.

I would imagine she went into denial from the second your father started behaving that way ... In order to function, and that is so deeply ingrained & entrenched within her that it will never come out. The level of failure as a parent and are person are too gigantic overwhelming for her to acknowledge.

*The level of failure as a parent and as a person are too gigantic & overwhelming for her to acknowledge.

I'd also say these types would never ever want it known, by family members, let alone outside the family that they failed to prevent (or even facilitated) incestuous child sex abuse; if she admits one iota that is what she'll have to face. That she was that person and that her neatest and dearest, and perhaps people in her community, will know. It is never going to happen so put it to the side. The most important thing is getting children out of her care, and your sister's and your own recovery.

OP-I am so sorry.

Can I gently suggest that you not rush any of this.

Who is to say that he did not drug your mum as well?

You may now have started to open a door for her memory.

When she left him - what happened? Did family life improve?

She may have know. BUT - she may not.

He abused you.

I am so sorry.

I had the same thing happened to me and my mum did not believe that it happened. Until my sister said the same thing had happened to her. I now have trust issues and am not close to any of my family. It is the worst betrayal that you could experience and you might not recover from it. But you need to stay connected to your partner and kids, and know that the cycle stops with you. You are not at fault. The ones that hurt you are.
Live for your family, not them.

If you read the op, you'll see he left.

It's unlikely in the extreme a mother was totally & utterly unaware her children were being given alcohol and sexually abused. Unless he did it while she was out working etc.

Her mother's behaviour around encouraging and facilitating op having relationships with adult men while underage is also significant.

The op also did not mention any "drugging". Just that she was made to drink a lot of alcohol.

So her mother would presumably have had a choice as to whether to drink enough to be unaware. (Unless you are suggesting he drugged the mother's drinks? Or separately drugged the mother. A lot of speculation there).

He abused you.

The mother also abused her, we know for sure, with the encouragement and facilitation of relationships with adult men while underage.
As to her awareness of not of the sexual abuse of her children, we don't know (and may never know).

(*to be clear, the sexual abuse of her children by their father)

I think if the father's past and behaviour since leaving their family was investigated, there will be other incidents of sexual abuse)sex offences ... Whether they have been prosecuted or not.

This sort of behaviour is very rarely isolated.

My mum said that my dad would never have done that and she would never have allowed it and my sister is delusional and I am falling for it.

Notable that she totally ignored you saying that you had those memories, then you discussed it with your sister, and then your sister acknowledged that she had the same/similar memories.

Your Mum calling your sister delusional and making out sites brain wading you in some way, when you actually initiating discussing those memories, is sinister.

(Her behaviour around your teenage (barely teenage) older boyfriends was also sinister).

I feel like she's abusing and victimising your sister all over again. .. ostracizing her from the rest of her family, she's taken her kids (which must be utterly heart breaking and so painful for her) - I know she was asked to when they were removed but .... It's horrifically ironic that this woman now has residence of your sister's girls, having very likely let her (and yourself, and it sounds like your younger sisters be sexually abused as children, and has huge response for her addiction and MH issues (and yours m).

Your mother's responsibility for two girls worries me immensely. It's also utterly sickening re your poor sister given the history. There she is looking like the forbearing, good, supportive, responsible, incredibly decent grandparent ... With what you've described in your background.

Could you possibly take in your nieces instead? I think you two should go to the relevant authorities and try to get the residence altered if you can. You'll obviously need to engage with those responsible and argue your case.

*huge responsibility

It is blatantly obvious from just this bit of info we have that the woman was not a responsible, protective mother.

I don't like the OP being told, "she didn't abuse you"
I disagree - neglect IS abuse.

@Onwardsandupwardsplease I’m so sorry you experienced this and I’m so sorry for your sister too.

I was sexually abused by a brother growing up and in trying to deal with the abuse it became obvious how narcissistic my parents were which in no small way contributed to the abuse I suffered. It is my experience that sexual abuse thrives in narcissistic families and there is a whole other level of abuse of deep, dark and insidious abuse that you are dealing with that you probably aren’t even aware of.

It is extremely painful confronting the reality of these kinds of abuse in families and the harm these people are capable of causing in their wake but what I have personally found is that my similar symptoms to the ones you have described here (which are absolutely consistent with the trauma you describe and narcissistic abuse on top of it) have largely righted themselves for me the more I have healed.

I suspect from personal experience that it is very like that the OPs mother was guilty of narcissistic abuse at least which essentially means she had a narrative for the family that no one is allowed to challenge, she (and likely the OPs father) took up (takes up) all of the emotional space in the family, she consistently puts her own needs ahead of the needs of the individuals in the family and is emotionally dismissive, invalidating, rationalising of the emotions of others to suit her own agenda. From experience it is extremely common in families where there is abuse to have parents such as that. Sometimes one of the parents is being abused by the other parent in this situation too but they still don’t attempt to act protectively on behalf of their children and focus on maintaining the relationship above all else.

Sorry I meant to say I agree with @Firecarrier