How long is long enough?

[Squidger45]

I've seen a lot on threads this weekend with people being judged for:
A) moving in
B) meeting children
C) getting pregnant
D) insert other relationship milestone

'Too quickly'.

Things like 'you barely know them' and 'you're stupid to have gotten pregnant so soon' and 'how much can you possibly know X after only 18 months' etc etc.

I think that it's a bit fucking rude to be honest.

As if the commenters had never been at the 12 / 18 month stage of a relationship. Somehow they magically pinged 10 years into a marriage surrounded by cherub-like offspring. .

As if everyone on the planet has the luxury of spending multiple years with a variety of partners before picking the most appropriate one, and then getting married and spending another multiple number of years before making a fucking spreadsheet to decide when is the right time to have children.

I actually cannot believe how judgemental a large majority of this 'supportive' community can be, sitting on their soap boxes criticising other people's lives, that they're rushing their decisions etc (often unsolicited!) as though they live in the garden of fucking Eden.

If someone wants to move in with DP at 4 months, and fall pregnant at 9 months into a relationship (as an example!), does that make them a bad person, deserving of some of the vitriol flying around on here this weekend?

If you're happy - you do you. If you're not, don't project your miserable lives and cynicism on to those who are happy!

Rant over.

Commiting to having a baby with someone you've known for less than 2 years = insanity

Introducing your kids to a partner of less than 6-12 months = unwise

Getting married less than 2 years in = Russian roulette

I will not change my mind on this. Of course there are success stories of people doing foolish things like these, but that doesn't mean those things are not inherently foolish.

I guess because people think it's quite reckless to bring a child into the world in an immature relationship as it is potentially more likely to lead to a broken family which could negatively affect an innocent child.

P.s You don't need to end with "rant over". It's a bit FB...

Fair enough, appreciate your point of view.

I saw one the other day, woman was 39 and had been with 40-odd year old DP for about 11 months. She very much felt that if she didn't consider TTC with DP, that would be, quite possibly, her last chance, happy etc, but against the clock.

Does the 2 year rule still apply for older couples, do you think? And in this day and age when 42% of marriages end in divorce anyway, what does it matter at what point those commitments are made?

I used to have very clear views on this, but the older I've gotten and the more friends I've lost at a young age (most recently in 2018 when a good pal died of a brain tumor at 32), the more I think - you only live once - and I more take each day as it comes and try not to get too bogged down on what might or might not happen in the future.

Interesting to hear other POVs 🙃

Good point, but then there's people who go it alone through donation, surrogacy, loss of DP during pregnancy, who end up staying together for the kids way longer than they should and end up doing more damage to innocent kids...

Just another perspective.

I am very cautious, so I would view having a child with someone you have only known a short time - for argument's sake, less than 18 months, as a big risk.

Having a child with anyone is not something you should do just because you fancy having a baby, but something you do because you see a long-term future with that person.

My personal experience is that when you first start dating someone, it's always amazing for the first six months to a year. Because you only see what you want to see, everything is new and exciting, and both parties want to impress each other - it's part of the wooing process.

Sometimes it is not until you are faced with stresses and adverse events that test the relationship (which may not happen initially) that you see another side to that person that was not evident at the start. Sometimes that side is not one you particularly like, and you would have ruled out a relationship if you had been aware of those 'flaws' in the beginning.

Taking time enables you to see the bigger picture of someone's character and personality and how they deal with life's challenges.

Having children can put a huge strain on the strongest relationship, but without that solid foundation to start with, the chances of failure are going to be higher.

I base this observation on my own experiences and the experience of friends, the number of young single mothers and the frequent sob stories appearing on MN.

It's just my opinion, though, and I do not judge others for their own decisions.

It's the naivety and lack of realistic expectations that I think ruffles the feathers of some posters.

If you've known someone a few weeks and are introducing them to your young children with some expectation that happily ever after is in place and you're all going to be a delightful little family then you're not being realistic. You know very little about a person after a few weeks, certainly not enough to let them become someone special to your children.

It looks from the outside like either desperation or a lack of consideration for the long term stability and consideration of the children.

Thanks for a measured reply.

I'm genuinely interested in the reasoning behind this, as I say, I've seen some really mean comments this weekend, and I'm keen to understand why people have such strong feelings one way or the other.

I absolutely get it at a younger age - I didn't have kids with my ex husband in my 20s as I wasn't sure it was right, for example.

But then if you meet someone, go through some external shit and still feel strong and happy within 12 months of being together, I don't necessarily think the time together should preclude taking decisions for the future in good faith.

Maybe I've just seen too much death and loss and am a bit more laissez-faire in my views as a result, I'm more and more Carpe Diem the older I get, where I suppose I should be more cautious with age and experience 🤣

Fair enough on the weeks front. I get that. But multiple months?

But then completely realistic expectations would probably make us all miserable and completely risk-averse I guess.

You think it's a big ask to wait multiple months to introduce a new man to your young kids? That's odd

I don't, necessarily. I don't have a new man to introduce to anyone.

I was just trying to understand the hate I've seen this weekend.

Everyone's circumstances are so different. My pal has moved in with her partner after 6 months as they were both paying extortionate rent on properties 5 mins apart. They're both financially stable / independent but it makes sense for just now.

But that would get raised eyebrows and negative comments on here from some, from what I've seen this weekend.

There's just a lot of judgement I don't really get, is all.

I would say 6 months for intro to kids is the bare minimum and that would be low key introduction not staying overnight and having the kids wake up to new boyfriend in the house.

I wouldn't move in and join finances with a new partner until I'd known them for at least a year and had confidence that I knew what their long term goals and approach to things like finances, work ethic, arguments, family relationships...were.

I met DH when I was 16, we moved in together and got married when I was 22, we had our only child when I was 30, DD is now 8. We've been together 22 years, married 16.

I think for living together and marriage it's even more important to be sensible as you get older. Many people by 39/40 have a property, have children, have a career, savings, pensions. Rushing into a marriage puts all of those at risk if the relationship doesn't work and leaves a limited time to recover and rebuild those assets.

It may sound cold and calculating but not thinking about these kind of things is why so many women find themselves on these boards saying that they're stuck in a relationship because they can't afford to leave, or that they've been left with nothing.

Everyone is different, and we each have our own standards of what we consider right or wrong. But there is no right or wrong; it's what works for you and your kids if you have any.

I’ve been there, moved in bf early, introduced him to eldest DC early, got pregnant early. Was it the right choice? Absolutely not. I’m now much older and wiser - eldest DC is nearly 30, younger DC are 18 & 14 and I’m dating again. I will not be making the same mistake again. Bf also has kids. Won’t be entertaining meeting DC before 6 months and I’m committed to my area for another 3yrs (and he’s committed to his area much longer as his DC are much younger. So do I judge? No I don’t judge as I’ve been there, so that’s hypocrisy but do I think they should have waited? Absolutely. Will it all end in disaster - maybe, maybe not, but just because you wait 3hrs doesn’t guarantee it’s all going to be sunshine & roses either

Depends. I was 36 when I met dds dad. I was pregnant before the year was out. For me personally it was awful, but I have my dd and I was in love, didn't have the luxury of time re having kids. Now we're separated I waited 18 mo to introduce kids. I dont see the point of pushing kids together with new dps and their dcs unless you're quite sure and have weathered a couple of arguments well.

I've seen people introduce their dcs after a couple of months literally and just shook my head in disbelief. It's a massive gamble and for what? It's just not a great idea. As a kid I had a variety of men traipse through my house dating my mother and I hated it.

People should think more about why they feel the need to "rush" things, from life observations it tends to be because they're "lacking" something: children, financial stability and want these things asap.

I introduced my DC to my new partner after a few weeks. They wanted to meet him, he wanted to meet them. And I didn't want to get serious/ fall in love and then find out he didn't get on with the DC. However I was fairly certain it would become a serious relationship, I didn't introduce the DC to everyone. Ironically the relationship ended after 2.5 years because he hated my DC.

But I do know a couple of people who jump from one relationship to another very quickly. The existing DC meet most of the new boyfriends. There's often a baby within the year and the relationship never works for much longer. But I do think these women are desperately looking for something, they had prettyv rubbish childhoods and just want to be loved. They think a child will (eventually) make a man stay.

There can also be pressure from society, especially as you get older, to 'settle down'. Honestly, I think my family would happily marry me off to any man who looked at me regardless of how nice he was. They can't seem to accept that I'm happy single and that marriage isn't the be all and end all of life. But i can see how the pressure could make some people rush things.

I rushed things. Really rushed. We were married in a year and two years and three pregnancies later had two children.

Looking back I had a major craving for security and connection. I think I would have settled for anyone who was willing, such was my need to feel loved.

Fast forward 8 years and we are happier than we've ever been. The early years were tough and there is a lot we would like to have done before we had the children. We've both worked on ourselves - really worked. And we've done a lot of growing up. We needed to grow up but didn't realise it at the time.

Anyway, I did it. It's worked out so far but really don't recommend it

Thanks for the honest responses.

I'm not criticising anyone or their views, it just struck me as a theme this weekend on posts and I'm genuinely interested to understand the different POVs.

My perspective is this.

Older couples - with the exception of times when a woman has been deliberately misled by a man, people generally understand themselves better the older they are. They also have more experience of other people and life experience in general. They are also generally in a more stable life position. Therefore, decisions that are made to move in together are generally made from a more reasoned perspective.

Women who chose to have children alone - I don't see that that is on anyway comparable to couples who have conceived within a few months. In the former scenario, women have planned, have considered their personal financial position, their support network, the impact on their career and social life. They have weighed up all the pros amd cons and made a decision.

Whereas women who allow themselves to become pregnant in a 4 month relationship have generally not considered these perspectives. Have generally not considered their financial position nor their support network. Because, if they had, they wouldn't be positing on her in desperation fearful of the fixture with no money, no stability and no means to support the child alone.

Relationships can fail at any stage, we all know that, it's generally naivete that leads women to to believe that they are in love after a few weeks (which is what 4 months etc is) and it's foolhardy to think you know someone well enough to have a child with them.

It's very different choosing to have a child alone to believing you are in a supportive relationship and then having that fall apart.

And it's also frustration that, knowing the statistics, some women will choose to trust a man she barely knows with her future and her child's future. Any man worth his salt would also want to make sure she was right for him before moving in or having a child.

People get frustrated with women because the risk of the woman ending up in a shit position is far higher than it is for the man and yet some women will blindly trust the word of the man she barely knows.

It's more frustrating when women post in these situations and there is often a catalogue of red flags from the start that she has chosen to ignore.

And as a society, women are still fed the dream of marriage, babies and happily ever after when the reality is often very different to that.

Yes, there are always going to be the stories of moving in after 3 weeks and still being together 30 years later (I have a friend who was in this position) and there will always be the stories of women who waited 8 years to marry and divorced 4 years later because he had an affair without ever showing signed of infidelity sooner (that was me) but at least if you know someone properly, you have done whatever you can do to mitigate against this happening.

Yes, this.

Personally, I didn't have children with my exdp until I had seen him deal with 'births, deaths and marriages'. Not literally though, more of a rule of thumb for me and although that relationship was catastrophically unsuccessful I did know him very well.

Births, interpreted as seeing his interaction with children and babies.
Deaths, how did he cope with stressful situations when I loved one was very unwell or the stresses of someone passing away. Did he drink himself into a stupor, hit class a drugs, get very depressed. Supportive to other people experiencing these emotions if they lost a loved one.
Marriages, how did he treat women in general, speak about them? Treat his friends spouses? Treat family member spouses? Welcoming? Respectful? Supportive.

I accepted his responses to these situations, although they were below par, but I had observed and knew what I was getting. What I did stop observing was myself.

There's not a magical time span, but certainly long enough to see some life changes to see how they are coped with.

"I think that it's a bit fucking rude to be honest. "

As is your whole post. The reason most threads get those responses is because the person realises their partner is not what they thought, they've rushed into things. They have.

But also, The real reason is braces their relationship boundaries are askew, and their ability to spot red flags is off kilter. So yes, they in particular, because of that, should have taken more time to check things were right.

Not everyone has such poor self esteem and askew boundaries and inability to spot red flags though. Those people are balanced. Their relationship may take a long time to develop. Or it may be quick. Some rush in, but because their boundaries, red flags and esteem are so good, they make good choices, be them quickly. But they aren't the ones posting on threads about their problematic Relationships and Husbands who turn out to be dicks are they? because those people are posting on the happy marriages of 25 years plus threads.

"I'm not criticising anyone or their views,"

Yes you were. Your OP was extremely aggressive and very critical of all mn relationship advice.

Now you are more and more placating with every post. "Thanks for the reasoned response.... ". Yeah! Unlike your Op!

When you know you know. 6 months is a reasonable timeframe to get to know the other half (and yourself!) in the relationship. Little point in waiting for years if the relationship is steady and both are not in their 20s. There should be progressive development for the relationship to grow. But usually, there is one partner ready for the next step and the other is not there yet! 🤷‍♀️

When you know you know is a mentality that gets many many people stuck in absolutely shitty situations. Sometimes what you think you know is a facade, a big dose of lovebombing from a narcissist, etc. Takes time for the real person to show through the act.