Adult parents involving me in their marital issues

[GougeAwayIfYouWantTo]

My parents are going through severe marital issues (discussing divorce), and they heavily involve me in these problems. It usually starts because my mum just cannot hide her anger, so I ask her if she’s ok and the deluge of stories about my dad begins. She is happy for me to talk to my dad, and naturally I want to check that he’s ok (my mum is very angry & aggressive, whereas my dad is the total opposite so I absolutely want to ensure he’s ok. I’ve been on the receiving end of my mum’s temper and it’s not nice).

Their relationship is utterly dysfunctional and toxic and I am fully behind a divorce if that’s what they want, but I’m finding it exhausting trying to deal with it. This week alone I’ve spent hours each day talking to both of them as they’ve had a particularly bad week.

For context, I am in my 30s and they are in their 50s. He is my step dad, but I call him dad and see him as my father.

I want to support my mum, but I’m not sure how appropriate this is. Occasionally she’ll reference their sex life, or allude to it and I find this really uncomfortable. She’ll tell my dad what she’s told me and then he’ll apologise to me as he’s so embarrassed and it’s just so awkward!

Is it normal for parents to involve their children in their marital disputes like this?

That sounds grim. I’m sorry I don’t have any advice but it’s not normal. I think I’d say, “stop… I do not want to hear this.” And walk. I’d have died if my parents had done similar.

Mine did, starting from the age of 4 or so. It lasted until my dad's death so 35 years give or take (they were still married at that point). I got to the stage where I was effectively "divorce him or shut up". Their relationship, their problem. I tried to give relationship advice to mine, they'd agree I was right but then carry on as normal.

Sounds awful OP. Mine dragged me through every step of their divorce, every letter and phone call I got from both sides so I understand the position you're in. If I were to go back, I think I'd have to say, "I'm not the person to have this conversation with", or "I appreciate this us hard but I can't talk about this with you ".

Personally I would take a step back and be a listening ear only. Or if you don’t want to be a listening ear, just say you don’t want to hear it because you feel like piggy-in-the-middle.

I absolutely would not be taking sides or offering advice to either one and would keep my opinions to myself. Nor would I support one over the other in any decision making process as that could backfire badly and be thrown back in your face.

I think it’s wrong to be made to feel as if you should take sides, but I also think it’s quite common.

So sorry to hear others have had to go through this too. I really do want to tell them I don’t wish to be involved, but it feels so unnatural to not ask my mum if she’s ok when she makes it so obvious she’s fuming. I like the idea of being there to listen, but not to offer advice.

They both keep saying they’re sorry for involving me, but carry on regardless

I want to support my mum, but I’m not sure how appropriate this is. Occasionally she’ll reference their sex life, or allude to it and I find this really uncomfortable. She’ll tell my dad what she’s told me and then he’ll apologise to me as he’s so embarrassed and it’s just so awkward!

That is so inappropriate that along with the inability to control her temper she may have some kind of personality disorder going on.

Next time she imposes on you with sex life talk, shut her down HARD.
"Mum that is inappropriate & I don;t want to hear it."
"Mum stop that right now."
"Mum I will not say this again - I CANNOT hear about your sex life & if you can't STFU about it I will need to remove myself"

You say you've been on the wrong end of her temper so brace yourself for an explosion & be ready to walk away from her. You do NOT have to tolerate either sex talk or temper from her.

This week alone I’ve spent hours each day talking to both of them as they’ve had a particularly bad week.

Stop doing this with immediate effect, for either of them.
Yup,. even your kind dad.
"Dad, I feel for you but listening to my parents hating each other is very hard to hear. I can't be your therapist but I want you to be properly supported - can you talk to a close friend or a counsellor about this personal stuff?"

"Mum, I can't keep being in the middle of your disputes with dad. I know divorce is painful, but I can't be parent to both of you while you sort it out. Can you take your issues to mediation with him, or talk to a therapist just for you?"

Is it normal for parents to involve their children in their marital disputes like this?
No, & they are being very selfish. Possibly unwittingly so, in their pain & grief, but that doesn't make it any easier for you does it?
Google parentification.

it feels so unnatural to not ask my mum if she’s ok when she makes it so obvious she’s fuming.

I bet she overshared with you when you were a kid too.
She shouldn't be parading her rage at you. It's manipulative & entitled of her.

"I'm not the person to have this conversation with", or "I appreciate this us hard but I can't talk about this with you ".

Those are brilliant statements @cheeseislife8
Nice & bland, but utterly solid.

OP - commit them to memory, & use in a Broken Record technique!
www.revolutionlearning.co.uk/article/the-broken-record-technique/

This is not healthy at all.
I would limit how often/long you speak to them. Yea you want to be supportive and provide a listening ear, but hours everyday is excessive. Start saying no and limiting the time on the calls.

i really wouldn’t want my parents telling me every in and out of their relationship. It’s actually very unfair for them to do that. I think you should tell them that you are uncomfortable with the amount being shared.

She’ll tell my dad what she’s told me and then he’ll apologise to me as he’s so embarrassed and it’s just so awkward!

Sorry, missed the full implicatons of this when addressing the broader aspect.

It's ... a hideous piece of gameplaying.
She is actively seeking to sexually shame your dad by making his daughter party to info she simply should not have to hear.

I would be very angry about this.
Angry enough to get quite protective of dad.
"Mum, this isn't on. I don't want to hear it, & you only do it so you can goad dad about it afterwards by telling him you've told me inappropriate stuff. It's a sick game & I WILL NOT play it with you."

I feel your pain. I'm in my forties, my parents in their 60s/70s and they can be awful together and I’m stuck in the middle

i spent a fortune on a lovely weekend for us all and my mum was toxic towards my dad and he was poor me all weekend. I was stuck in the middle and had an awful time. after the holiday they were nice as pie with each other (for a while) whilst I was annoyed and stressed for weeks. I told them I was never going on holiday ever again with them and they both had a go at me

please just distance yourself and shut them down when ever they both start being toxic or the victim. My own health has suffered with the stress of them, don’t let yours do the same

I have to put up with this from my parents so I, too, feel your pain. I am in my 50s and they are in their 80s (!) God only knows how they are still together, but somehow they are. It's a toxic codependent relationship.

I (eventually) learned to shut it down by telling them I'm sorry for what they're going through but I don't want to hear it as I find it upsetting. I've made it very clear to them both that I won't take sides. I've also made it clear that I will walk away if it gets too much, and I do exactly that. It's helped a lot as they try to involve me a lot less now.

Thank you so much for all this wonderful advice; it’s incredibly helpful and it’s been reassuring to learn that this isn’t normal.

My mum is fiercely protective and vehemently fights on our behalf when she sees wrongdoing (this is a separate issue that has led to severe embarrassment e.g. involving herself in my personal relationships despite it being totally inappropriate), and I feel like I owe her for this protection she’s given me as when she’s upset she’ll remind me that she’s helped me previously.

I also suspect a personality disorder, but I really don’t know how to broach this, or even if I should.

It's not right or healthy to be so enmeshed with your parents relationship.
You can be supportive and kind but you do need to tell both of them to stop over sharing with you. They need other people to offload too - it's tempting to talk with you because you know them both and can probably sympathise with the complaints plus it will feel less exposing than talking with someone outside the family.
But this puts you in an uncomfortable situation. Tell them, nicely, to stop telling you so much.

Your mum certainly has issues! Don't ask her if she's ok when she is obviously fuming. I was often angry at my exh, but never let my children see. Your mum is looking for a response from you and has probably taught you that her feelings are more important than yours.
She interferes in your life and makes decisions on your behalf? That is controlling not protective. She reminds you of times when she 'helped' you? Help shouldn't come with strings You don't owe her anything. I know you say you do, but she's using you inappropriately in the split with your dad. I really hope you don't live with her. If you do, make plans to leave. If not, pull back and pull back again

God no, I don’t live with her. I moved out as soon as I finished university as we argued so much when I returned!

Yes, she is, and always has been, really controlling.

I was supposed to be going round this evening to help mediate as a last ditch attempt, but earlier I plucked up the courage to tell her that, on reflection, I didn’t think it was appropriate.

Thank you do you all for your help.

As a child under 10yrs old I knew all about my parents matrimonial issues. Completely inappropriate and they should have divorced when I was a child. Instead my brother and I were subjected to years of arguing / shouting / aggression largely on my mums part and triggered by a severe case of PMT (or I actually think PM psychosis). These days she would have got more help but this was the 80’s and it wasn’t common for classmates to also say they had same set ups at home.

I think you need to say to them both that you love and care for them both, think they need to get divorced, but you can’t be their constant sounding board as it’s impacting on your own mental health and it’s not fair.

They need professional mediation or couples counselling. People don’t like talking to strangers but really this should be suggested. You should not be their mediator or counsellor.

I’m sorry you’re having to put up with this no not normal.
mine did this 20 years ago when I was early 30s, they were both heavy drinkers at the time and used to have big drunken bust ups and turn up at my house (I lived less than a mile away).
not particularly helpful advice for everyone, but I had the chance to move 30/40 miles away and this was one of the factors that made me go for it, it was grim.

You are not their therapist and involving you in their problems is not appropriate. Tell them that every time they start up. If necessary, walk away from them when they start.

My mother did this. I was 22 and found it heartbreaking. My father was at fault but at least never said a word.

Well done for taking a step back. And stick to your guns.

Their behaviour is excruciatingly immature and selfish.

As a pp said it sounds as though your mum at least, perhaps both of them, are 'weaponising' your concern against each other. So you are not even helping.

But even if you were somehow able to help, they can get exactly that help, in fact better help, from someone else.

Stay out of it, you are absolutely entitled to.

it feels so unnatural to not ask my mum if she’s ok when she makes it so obvious she’s fuming.

Hmmm, this is what your mother is banking on, she’s conditioned you well. You need to take a massive step back from both of them. Neither of them are ‘forgetting’ to drag you into their marital drama, it’s deliberate and suggests a pre existing dysfunctional family relationship that you have haven’t yet acknowledged.

what is "owed" by a mother to a child is far different to what is "owed" by a child to a mother in terms of emotional support, being absolutely nothing. Sympathies, my mother waged a war to make me hate my dad from as far back as I can remember, culminating in her having an affair in her sixties, (which she just assumed she could invovle me in because she just assumed I would side with her, ) with a younger man who was going to leave his wife and then , surprise, didn;t at which point she expected to be able to cry on my shoulder night after night. At the time I was far into the FOG and let her but Christ if I had my time again I would do things differently. Agree with others - refuse to talk about it, she can talk to friends or get counselling like a normal person.