Intimacy & Menopause - DH question

[Folkmusic]

Hi All, I would like some advice on the following. DW and I have been married for 23 years with late teen children. For the last three years we have not been intimate in anyway and this started at the commencement of DWs menopause. Obviously this has led to some issues and we are now at a stage where we don’t even kiss or cuddle - I am sure partly due to the fact that she doesn’t want to give any signals of leading me on. Essentially we have a relationship of co-parents. My wife is on HRT and has changed the prescription of this and also seen the doctor on this matter.

My wife does not like to discuss the menopause to any extent as I think she feels embarrassed, however she has said that she ‘doesn’t feel it anymore’ and ‘has nothing left to give’ due to tiredness. Have any women gone through something similar and did your libido return, or is this the end of our sex life?

Before anyone flames me, this is genuine question and not wholly self-cantered as I think sex is one part of a marriage. Also as I have seen this raised before we both pull our weight equally in relation to house and finance matters. Also I am sure that DW is not seeing anyone else and there is no history of infidelity in our marriage from either side. We treat one another well in all other aspects of our life.

To be fair, if you have never been able to have a conversation about sex with her because she feels it's embarrasing and too personal, how have you ever had any kind of a decent fulfilling sex life? Has she never been able to talk to you about what turns her on, how it feels when you do xx, what she likes and dislikes?

If not, how has sex been fulfilling for her? It's likely to have been a chore to tick off her to do list rather than any kind of engaging enjoyable shared moment.

You haven't actively agreed to removed sex from the table, it's merely slid off the table of it's own accord. Don't ask her for a cuddle. Ask her if she would like a foot rub. You are looking to invite her, and create a space for her to move into, not ask her to perform.

You asked her to go out a few times, she said no a few times. Listen to her. Think of something else! Don't just keep banging against the same closed door.

Esther Perel has a large body of work that could be your best friend here, and help you get more insight into what might be going on, and what could help get things back on track.

Menopausal lady here. I agree with what she is doing by avoiding cuddles is she doesn't want it to lead on.

Can you just explain to her that you just want cuddles and nothing else .... BUT you cannot take it any further even if you really want to. As that will shut the door. You need to continue just to do that until SHE makes a move. This could take months /years. It's horrible and she feels horrible about it too

Do other things. Take her out for meals , send quality time with her. Nice weekend away etc

You haven't had intimacy in 3 years.
Your wife does want to talk about it.
She is not communicating with you.
She shows no interest in a physical relationship with you.
She shows a total disregard for the effect this has on you and the relationship.

Hate to say it but wake up, your marriage is over and she doesn't seem to care.

Once again, this has nothing to do with Menopause.

With reference to not wanting to go out, extreme exhaustion can be a symptom of peri-menopause so she might not have the energy to go out.

This is not as cut and dried as you think it is @Jackofallsorts
Lack of intimacy can be explained by lack of libido (caused by peri-menopause).
Reluctance to talk about it can be explained by anxiety and lack of confidence (caused by peri-menopause).
Showing no sign of interest can be a sign of a self-protection mechanism (she doesn't want to do anything to indicate sex is on the table, sex might be painful for her, she's embarrassed to talk about it, she wants to curl up in a ball and hopes someone will love her for who she currently is, and not for the sex she provides - all these are manifestations brought on by the peri-menopause).
All these things have everything to do with the menopause.

I agree with Oopsiedaisy the more you have it the more you want it. I found sex quite a protracted process without HRT but in 3 months of HRT it's changed massively and I could easily have it every day in fact more than my bf. It sounds to me, and obviously I am no expert, but you're in a rut and need to get out of it and I hope that things get back on track.

Honestly, the fact that you are posting, and not her, suggests that she is perfectly happy with the whole situation and has no wish to change it. And that’s an obstacle you can’t do anything to get over.

@Withazjump
I think you may be missing my point. There are obvious underlying issues with the relationship based on the OP original message. I don't doubt that the menopause is impacting his partner but it's evident to me that there is a basic unwillingness to engage with the OP to attempt to sort the issue.
That unwillingness was there before the menopause and will be there after it.

Well we don’t know that do we. The OP might have posted last week…….

@Folkmusic Please don't pay much heed to the (not many) posters who are suggesting this has nothing to do with menopause, or that you wife no longer fancies you. To MANY of us who have gone through / are going through menopause, your story is very relatable.

It's hard to imagine if you haven't been through it (or if your symptoms didn't present in that way) but for lots of people there is a significant reduction and even total loss of libido through menopause. It isn't a choice, it's a fact. We can (and should, for own sake and our relationships) seek help for menopause symptoms, and they can help to different degrees. for some people it takes a while to find the right treatment. The symptoms can go on for years or forever.

HRT helped me enourmously. My libido still took a hit. I fancy my DH as much as ever. I mean REALLY fancy him. But turning that in to sex is another thing. For one thing, I'm so tired by the end of every day (HRT has done many good things for me, but hasn't sorted out how bone tired I feel). Sex is painful now even with the help of creams and HRT (at just the time when it takes my DH a little longer to 'get there', increasing soreness). I feel less sexy because I'm less confident of my body (although he clearly still loves it!) Put those things together and sex is much less enticing. Thankfully it isn't off the table for us, but we have had to find workarounds. And, importantly, we've never stopped hugging and kissing and 'making out' IYSWIM.

So - I have sympathy for your wife. I really do. I also have sympathy for you. It's entirely understandable that you aren't happy when there is zero affection in your marriage and your wife won't discuss it. Please be honest with her and tell her that you don't want to lose your marriage, your love, your affection. And that ignoring the problem just makes it bigger and more of a threat. Remind her this is about much more than sex. That you feel rejected when she won't show you affection. That she should tell you if you can help in any way. That you're happy to completely take sex off the table for a while longer if you can work on reintroducing affection. She would be very unreasonable to refuse to at least discuss it (even if it's to tell you she never wants sex again and doesn't want to discuss it - in which case you may decide that you need to leave the marriage, as there are few things more soul destoying than being in a relationship where you feel unwanted and constantly rejected).

Just wait until you go through the menopause or your partner does. HRT can only do so much and some women suffer terribly. Why do you think the govt is reviewing the provision and looking at training all GPs.

you show no sympathy which if it was impacting her work you would have to tread carefully as it is related to her biological sex and as such can fall under the equality act.

it’s not all about fancying someone. You don’t know what she has done or tried.

Is she bothered by it or not interested in making it better. Was your sex life ever frequent or as it always been a bit lacklustre. 3 years is a long time to come back from.

This is a bit ironic, since I AM the woman. I can tell you that there is no greater turn-off than a husband who is "giving affection" and trying to "make you happy" when what he really means is that he wants more sex, especially the same kind as before when you were younger and stronger. If you (the husband) really love me, and not just what I can do for you (in bed), then you need to back way the heck off and think about what love really means. Right now, love means you respect that I don't want to die of a drug-resistant UTI before I'm 60. It means you respect that sex is not pleasurable for me the way it was before, and that you respect that sometimes it's painful and that it's not really fair to expect me to endure pain on a regular basis so you can get your jollies. It means things will take longer. It can mean a feeling of panic during sex, especially if the woman feels she is being used as a body rather than being loved as a person. If a man getting pleasure from his wife's body takes precedence in his life, over her living healthily, he doesn't love her. Again, that's a huge turn-off.

Cannot stand men who treat their wives who get old like used tissue that should be thrown away once it has served its function for them and replaced with a nice new tissue AKA new romantic partner.

If you can't find some way to communicate about it I'm not sure that you are going to get very far OP.

I appreciate other poster's optimism but do you really think a tired perimenopausal woman who doesn't want sexual intimacy is going to really suddenly be swayed by a invitation by her husband for a "foot rub" or a romantic meal?

I'm really not sure what to recommend to be honest as I'm not sure there is much you can say or do here short of laying down an ultimatum that could be received very badly indeed. Three years is a long time and she is moving away from you not towards you.

Tricky one, as peri/menopause can be brutal for many women ( even whilst on hrt).

I'm on hrt and still feel dead from the waist down much of the time. Hrt isn't always the answer. It can alleviate some symptoms, but boy it can take a while to fathom out which type and dose for the cogs to start churning again!

Your wife needs to communicate. I'm open with my partner about how menopause is affecting me. I don't sleep well, I'm shattered from full time work, two teens, the house, juggling money etc etc, totally shattered. We live as house mates and co parent but we both want things to be better. Communication is key though.

Canshe not support you in other ways? Agree to an intimate but not sexual type thing (since she is anxious about the lead on to sexua performance she isn’t into). Hair stroking., massage but with a no sex , foot rub. you’ll sort yourself out but you just want a cuddle and to be with her.
Its the lack of communication that’s madding. Mine tells me ‘ what I want to hear”. No really, I want the truth. All the time ( although with tact - second dress better, rub slower, you are thinner but I don’t notice)

I agree with others that it's a turn off when I notice my husband pawing at me and showing affection he doesn't regularly - because he thinks it will get him sex. It actually irritates me. If you can't be genuine and you're just after something, don't bother. I know what you're doing, and I'm sure OP's wife would be aware too.

First address things like acknowledging the hugely unequal emotional load, help me escape and feel relaxed (yes, that might involve a foot rub), show me understanding and connect with me as a person. Then the sex will take care of itself. Otherwise I'd rather read a good book or watch a movie.

Do you make her feel special? Do you send your jokes to her or just to your friends? When you’re in company do you behave a lot nicer to her than when you’re alone? Do you say kind things to her unprompted? Do you ask her opinion about stuff that’s happening in the world? Do you compliment her on all sorts of things? Are you equals in opportunity- if she wanted to go out tonight to see a friend spontaneously would she be just as able to do that as you are? Do you do 50% of the tasks? What are the tasks she always does? Is she OK with those?

Menopause does a complete number on women. Men usually have no idea what it is and most women are brought up to expect that at a certain age their periods will stop and that that’s all there is to it. I had no clue how hard it can be physically and emotionally until recently. Communication is really important for both of you, I would start there.

OP, you sound kind and loving. I do hope you can convince your wife that you’d just like to cuddle and hold hands more, with no expectation of sex.

My libido faded away some time around menopause, but came surging back in my 60s! More relaxed, more free time. It can happen.

It’s not the menopause per se, it’s a break down in communication between you both.
My DH is 20 years older than me, he was very sensitive to my needs going through the menopause, as he knew I was also sensitive to his needs as he was changing with age..,we agreed to always talk in case we hurt each other’s feelings by accident. We are very fortunate to still be enjoying a very active sex life, three to four times a week, but both agree the closeness of cuddles and bare skin and baths together, and holding hands walking the beach, and turning to each other just because, it’s that that reassures us of the deep bond as well as love-making.
I don’t let myself get paranoid that I don’t please him anymore if he can’t ejaculate, and he accepts how my body has changed with reactions/dryness etc without thinking I don’t still find him amazingly attractive…something I always have.
We compliment each other frequently and touch each other non-sexually frequently too.
You need to talk.

This is a very depressing viewpoint and does not apply to everyone. There are remedies for all of these if a woman wants to remain sexually active.

No there isn’t. Just go on any Facebook menopause group and read about women suffering. GPS often refuse HRT or don’t understand it. Women’s health is often ignored. There are supply issues too - some areas are really suffering. Your views are idealistic. Some women have friend everything but are still in pain, bleeding etc. Yes for some they don’t suffer at all. But I have friends whose bones are crumbling, teeth falling out because they did not replace the hormones they are missing.

There was a shortage of HRT for a while but even throughout all of that I was able to get some even if only a little at a time. I am a firm believer in being your own advocate and if a GP refuses then you ask for another or another until you get what you are after. Choosing not to take HRT does have its consequences for some.

Testosterone is the missing piece of the jigsaw in HRT. Been married 30 years and my sex life now feels like we've just met.
If the OP is right and his partner refuses to discuss things with him it's going to be difficult to have the conversation but definitely worth pursuing it. Oh and the testosterone took six months before it kicked in with me but it definitely is worth the wait.

I’m on testosterone and it’s made little difference. I’m also losing my hair which specialist thinks is a consequence. So again works for some and not others.